Promethean Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 The worst thing about GTA IV (besides Niko) was the removal of bikes and planes. Do they even have time to implement vehicles in a meaningful way? Having them just be there would suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 (edited) I liked it the way how Valve implemented the foot/buggy sessions in HL2 and Ep2. It was a well balanced act, so perhaps something similar could be done in NV. Get to conquer the deserts for a random fight, or just drive straight to the next village/vault. Edited May 9, 2009 by Morgoth Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 (edited) dunno how to make vehicles genuine useful. add a pilot skill and specific creates opportunities for vehicle use? (ok, we can see how to make useful, am simply not convinced that such efforts is worth efforts) typical we see see vehicles thrown into a crpg as a minor side aspect or as a quick travel and pack mule device... am not sure such stuff is worth effort considering how little is typical added to game. HA! Good Fun! Edited May 9, 2009 by Gromnir "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 No there shouldn't be a skill required. Just a faster way for traveling. Again, I can do without it, but if the maps are being designed somewhat realistically, I expect some serious distances to be conquered. Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 I think adding vehicles to replace the fast travel system would be cool. But probably far out of range of Obsidian's resources for this game. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syraxis Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Depending on how big of an area New Vegas will be set in, perhaps the "rebuild old railways" mechanic from Van Buren could be implemented as an alternative to the fast travel system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Promethean Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 (edited) The sections in HL2 were linear areas made for those vehicles though (and plenty of people dont like them). Having them work in an open wasteland seems a tad more complicated, especially since they would be for general transportation and not just the next segment of a level. Edited May 9, 2009 by Promethean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 (edited) dunno how to make vehicles genuine useful. add a pilot skill and specific creates opportunities for vehicle use? typical we see see vehicles thrown into a crpg as a minor side aspect or as a quick travel and pack mule device... am not sure such stuff is worth effort considering how little is typical added to game. HA! Good Fun! If there are vast tracks of barren [and flat] wasteland, then an NPC can drive from point A to B while the PC defends the vehicle from attack (similar to the train levels in Blood in a way), or the PC can drive the vehicle and get close enough for the NPC's to make shots at their attackers. Consider a pick-up truck with raiders trying to leap onto the truck bed and overtake you, or steal something that you have, and the player must deal with them and not fall off the truck. ~It'd be tricky. but I think the way (if done at all) is to study Mad Max. It worked pretty well in the PnP games called "After The Bomb" made by Palladium Books. Notes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_Hogs Edited May 9, 2009 by Gizmo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 I think adding vehicles to replace the fast travel system would be cool. But probably far out of range of Obsidian's resources for this game. if main function o' vehicle were fast travel, would it genuine be worth the trouble... hit exit grid or whatever and now you is in your 1958 edsel? store extra 100t in trunk? if is gonna have vehicles shouldn't there be ore to it... and if not, then what is point... other than flavor? HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cronicler Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 I don't think at this point vehicles in this game engine can have uses other than fast(er) travel + Pack Mule + Maybe a combination mobile bed/modification bench/crafting set. Making the vehicles genuinely useful would require time and deep design challenges... Time that could be used to strengthen other already existing and shaky areas. IG. We kick ass and not even take names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Promethean Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 (edited) Exactly. Using vehicles as a mere alt to fast travel is a waste. Though a good Mad Max game would be excellent. Edited May 9, 2009 by Promethean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 It would also require a lot more thought how the maps are being layed out. In F3, there was plenty of "stuff" in your way that would just hinder reasonable buggy traveling. Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Exactly. Using vehicles as a mere alt to fast travel is a waste. It's a use of resources that is probably excessive for what it provides. For most people. Me, personally, I don't think fast travel belongs in a crpg. Much better to provide in game means of covering long distances. Pretty irrelevant though since there's no way given the development time that vehicles are going in, except mayb ein an extremely limited way. And even that would be pretty unlikely, I think. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cronicler Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 (edited) Promethean: Not if you make a decent cause for it like: Desert travel requires x water and y rations per hour and if you run out you get damage/can die etc. You need to go to oasis to replenish your stocks and Oasis is in raider/bag guy/etc hands Every hour there is an X chance to encounter bandits in this region. Car/Pickup/Chopper cuts down travel time by 1/10 allowing you more range and choice to skip enemy strongholds... (RL explanation; you can cover 100km in one day on foot, going from dawn till next dawn, alternating between trot and fast walk and generally puking your guts out and filling your boots with blood. It can be done and It is done occasionally if you have that much of a sadist as a captain but with vehicle it takes less than 2 hours in relative comfort. Edit: I should really stop playing devils advocate to every post... Sorry I jumped the gun a bit here Edited May 9, 2009 by cronicler IG. We kick ass and not even take names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 dunno how to make vehicles genuine useful. add a pilot skill and specific creates opportunities for vehicle use? typical we see see vehicles thrown into a crpg as a minor side aspect or as a quick travel and pack mule device... am not sure such stuff is worth effort considering how little is typical added to game. HA! Good Fun! If there are vast tracks of barren [and flat] wasteland, then an NPC can drive from point A to B while the PC defends the vehicle from attack (similar to the train levels in Blood in a way), or the PC can drive the vehicle and get close enough for the NPC's to make shots at their attackers. Consider a pick-up truck with raiders trying to leap onto the truck bed and overtake you, or steal something that you have, and the player must deal with them and not fall off the truck. ~It'd be tricky. but I think the way (if done at all) is to study Mad Max. It worked pretty well in the PnP games called "After The Bomb" made by Palladium Books. the problem with mad max example is that 90% of game would then be vehicle combat. is same stuff that keeps mounted combat out of most crpgs. getting mounted combat into game would add a considerable level o' complexity and sophistication... but demands o' doing so are high, and pay-off is... again, if is just fast travel and pack mule, then why? if is genuine true vehicle combat, then you is potentially making a whole second combat system... not to mention all the graphic resources needed. am simply not seeing cost v. benefit... specially given afct that we ain't talking 'bout real long term development neither. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Not if you make a decent cause for it like: Desert travel requires x water and y rations per hour and if you run out you get damage/can die etc. You need to go to oasis to replenish your stocks and Oasis is in raider/bag guy/etc hands Every hour there is an X chance to encounter bandits in this region. Car/Pickup/Chopper cuts down travel time by 1/10 allowing you more range and choice to skip enemy strongholds... That would end up into too much trivial micro management. Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 I think driving a jeep around in a Fallout world like I did in Farcry 2 would be pretty neat. Especially if it has a 20mm cannon on the top. Let's see THAT in slo-mo. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Not if you make a decent cause for it like: Desert travel requires x water and y rations per hour and if you run out you get damage/can die etc. You need to go to oasis to replenish your stocks and Oasis is in raider/bag guy/etc hands Every hour there is an X chance to encounter bandits in this region. Car/Pickup/Chopper cuts down travel time by 1/10 allowing you more range and choice to skip enemy strongholds... is you changing overland map too? fine... end up with fo:t. vehicles moved you faster than foot and cut down on chances o' being attacked. sure didn't seem to add ... and don't get us started on the problems with forcing characters to bake bread. some anachronisms should be left to die, molder and be forgotten. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Promethean Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Not if you make a decent cause for it like: Desert travel requires x water and y rations per hour and if you run out you get damage/can die etc. You need to go to oasis to replenish your stocks and Oasis is in raider/bag guy/etc hands Every hour there is an X chance to encounter bandits in this region. Car/Pickup/Chopper cuts down travel time by 1/10 allowing you more range and choice to skip enemy strongholds... is you changing overland map too? fine... end up with fo:t. vehicles moved you faster than foot and cut down on chances o' being attacked. sure didn't seem to add ... and don't get us started on the problems with forcing characters to bake bread. some anachronisms should be left to die, molder and be forgotten. HA! Good Fun! Unless its an Ultima game. I expect it then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 (edited) the problem with mad max example is that 90% of game would then be vehicle combat. is same stuff that keeps mounted combat out of most crpgs. getting mounted combat into game would add a considerable level o' complexity and sophistication... but demands o' doing so are high, and pay-off is... again, if is just fast travel and pack mule, then why? if is genuine true vehicle combat, then you is potentially making a whole second combat system... not to mention all the graphic resources needed. am simply not seeing cost v. benefit... specially given afct that we ain't talking 'bout real long term development neither. HA! Good Fun! I can see fighting on truck-back as functionally identical to to fighting in a room with dynamic hazards. I bet not falling off the truck would be about the same thing as not stepping off the edge of a wall; And you can't take a truck into a man-hole, or subway, so the VtV combat would only occur in wide outdoor spaces (though it would be neat if the NPC hitting a bump (or rolling over an opponent) would shift the truck/or car such that the PC risked falling off if they weren't careful. What I'd like in a game turned FPP explorer is for the game to include climbing as a full feature. (quick non-sequitur) In Oblivion I had my PC climb the walls in Tamriel and found... nothing up there; I found alcoves on the wall where I'd expect a bed-roll or an assassin's perch, but there was nothing. When I had my PC scale the Arena wall to get in secretly, I found it to be alike an old MGM back lot set... Which was a bit of a disappointment... Oblivion suffered badly from poor player expectation. When I played, I found that every town could be climbed out of via the wall, but that the game assumed that you were still inside, and so dropped/degraded most of the outside hills and lakes until you went back into town and then left by the door. ~and there was nothing really to find in places that were off the beaten path. I put my PC on the roof tops in the temple district to "bow-shot" the unwary, and it mattered not, as they all knew exactly where to look, and that my PC had done it, and I even had a guard hop 30' straight up onto a roof to give the "criminal scum" speech. Edited May 9, 2009 by Gizmo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cronicler Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 (edited) Gromnir: I did not want to say or argue that Fo:T way was the best. I just can't see them putting in Vehicles other than the way FO:T used them without going total remake on the engine And whats up with hate against cooking? I like making pies! . Crashgirl: You are one bloody minded lass. I'm suprised that you can put up with Scope when Buzz is there Gizmo: Not really possible with the current engine without a loooot of work I'm afraid. But keep an eye on ID's Rage for that. Edited May 9, 2009 by cronicler IG. We kick ass and not even take names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Crashgirl: You are one bloody minded lass. I'm suprised that you can put up with Scope when Buzz is there I like Buzz but she won't work with Lynx. So I usually take Raven instead. If Lynx gets killed, then I usually hire on Buzz as well. And, let's see, more vehicles in FO:NV! Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 I actually changed my mind. Don't wanna have vehicles in my bloody Fallout. Flip Flop! Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 (edited) the problem with mad max example is that 90% of game would then be vehicle combat. is same stuff that keeps mounted combat out of most crpgs. getting mounted combat into game would add a considerable level o' complexity and sophistication... but demands o' doing so are high, and pay-off is... again, if is just fast travel and pack mule, then why? if is genuine true vehicle combat, then you is potentially making a whole second combat system... not to mention all the graphic resources needed. am simply not seeing cost v. benefit... specially given afct that we ain't talking 'bout real long term development neither. HA! Good Fun! I can see fighting on truck-back as functionally identical to to fighting in a room with dynamic hazards. I bet not falling off the truck would be about the same thing as not stepping off the edge of a wall; And you can't take a truck into a man-hole, or subway, so the VtV combat would only occur in wide outdoor spaces (though it would be neat if the NPC hitting a bump (or rolling over an opponent) would shift the truck/or car such that the PC risked falling off if they weren't careful. What I'd like in a game turned FPP explorer is for the game to include climbing as a full feature. (quick non-sequitur) kotor had these stoopid minigames where player would gets attacked when traveling between star systems. player would sudden be manning gun turret and would fight off tie-fighter analogues. lame. keep simple like kotor where fighting in vehicle is little more than a shooter interlude, and is wasted. maybe does like mass effect? probable not what you want, eh? turn into genuine vehicle combat and you need rules to gets a whole lot more robust... not to mention the graphics concerns to make look good. have seen the crpg mounted combat arguments and requests for over a decade now... have also heard developers explain why they choose not to do. developers has been pretty convincing on this issue in past and some o' the terrible attempts by bethesda and bioware doe not convince us otherwise. HA! Good Fun! Edited May 9, 2009 by Gromnir "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 I actually changed my mind. Don't wanna have vehicles in my bloody Fallout. Flip Flop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts