KotOR_rules2004 Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 According to someone I know, BioWare (and companies like them) doesn't make RPGs! Final Fantasy is a traditional RPG. Xenogears/Xenosaga is an traditional RPG. KOTOR, BG, NWN, Planescape, Fallout, they are "dice games" and not real RPGs He says this becuase he grew up with FF for the NES, and hence, all the Japanese style of RPGs are the REAL ones. Is this close minded? I mean, he says that RPG's started in Japan...didn't D&D pretty much start RPGs as we know them? So, a game based on D&D universe and rules, or just the rules is MORE of an RPG than you controlling a spikey haired, big eyed, metro-sexual guy with a sword 10x bigger than himself in a story that you can't even remotely control let alone your character. Oh, and when I try to defend Western RPGs he says "NO! We aren't going to get an an argument over this!" ...but yet he can bash MY STYLE OF RPGs? What do you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karka Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 (edited) I'd never speak with that guy again. Really. Edited July 10, 2006 by karka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BicycleOfDeath Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 (edited) I encourage you to make a homemade explosive device and have it delivered to that guy. Scratch that, I strongly encourage it. Put nails in it along with polystyrene and a flammable liquid. Would that be considered flaming? Edited July 10, 2006 by AngryKidJoe Stand Your Convictions and You Will Walk Alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bokishi Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 You give that guy a good slap and tell him to go play Ms. Pacman. Current 3DMark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 people who argue over what is and is not role-play in a sp crpg deserves whatever misfortune eventually befalls 'em. you know what kinda game you is gonna be getting if you buys an action-crpg, or a western crpg, or a japanese-crpg. is genre labels to helps the consumer, so who freaking cares if there is genuine role-play in ff or bg or diablo? Gromnir doesn't believe that genuine role-play is possible in a sp crpg. what fool is gonna spend effort trying to convince Gromnir that he is wrong, and that ff and bg and/or diablo has real role-play? what you gain from such an effort? as long as developers and publishers and consumers all understand what is in box with a crpg label on it, then why does anybody friggn' care what is oris not genuine role-play? if a developer says, "we are attempting to maximize role-play opportunities in our next title," is you gonna be satisfied, or is you gonna wonder what specific features has been added and what design changes has been made by the developer in question? you is gonna wonder 'cause role-play not mean a damn thing in and of itself. bah. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archmonarch Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 I agree with Gromnir. Ive always tended to view cRPGs more as interactive novels than a trule role-playing experience, excepting minor choices of alignment and attitude. And I find it kind of funny I find it kind of sad The dreams in which I'm dying Are the best I've ever had Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BicycleOfDeath Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 I agree with that point but JRPGs are... Linear. That's not any more of an RPG than any of D&D based game. Stand Your Convictions and You Will Walk Alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 (edited) Just laugh at him and say whatever. Maybe point out that if the rest of the world seems to think they are RPGs, then they probably are. If he wants to go on about how Final Fantasy was first, educate him about the joys of games like Ultima. The first trilogy of Ultima games were released before the Nintendo was even released. Or you could just ignore it, as it's not really that big of a deal. If he insists on telling you to be quiet, tell him to **** off. Edited July 10, 2006 by alanschu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 He's as close minded as the opposite side who claim that FFish games aren't 'RPGs', and only 'Western style' RPGs are. They both are - just with different focuses. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofAnakin Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 Close minded? Yes. An idiot? Yes. That's pretty much all you need to remember about that friend. "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pidesco Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 Tell your friend that the first Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy games were dumbed down Ultima clones. Still are, if you ask me. "My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian touristI am Dan Quayle of the Romans.I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.Heja Sverige!!Everyone should cuffawkle more.The wrench is your friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 "Tell your friend that the first Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy games were dumbed down Ultima clones. Still are, if you ask me." Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! But, no. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoM_Solaufein Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 Gromnir is a smart man, right on the mark. If you lose yourself playing the game in it's fantasy world and enjoy the character that you are playing who cares if it's a so called real RPG. War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is StrengthBaldur's Gate moddingTeamBGBaldur's Gate modder/community leaderBaldur's Gate - Enhanced Edition beta testerBaldur's Gate 2 - Enhanced Edition beta tester Icewind Dale - Enhanced Edition beta tester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenghuang Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 (edited) Gromnir is a smart man, right on the mark. If you lose yourself playing the game in it's fantasy world and enjoy the character that you are playing who cares if it's a so called real RPG. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually I think Gromnir said that no CRPG can feature true roleplaying because of the predetermined nature of even the most complexly written CRPG, unlike a PnP roleplaying campaign where the players are free to do quite literally whatever they want. It wasn't 'It doesn't matter whether or not they're an actual RPG as long as you're having fun.' so much as 'It doesn't matter whether or not they'r an actual RPG because no CRPG will even have true roleplaying and all of them just have greater and lesser roleplaying elements.' Also it'd be nice if you could come up with your own opinions rather than parroting what's already been said. Edited July 10, 2006 by Fenghuang RIP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf16 Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 Also it'd be nice if you could come up with your own opinions rather than parroting what's already been said. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, quit parroting what's already been said! SQUUUAAWWK Ahem. Not to parrot or anything, but the guy's an idiot. I had thought that some of nature's journeymen had made men and not made them well, for they imitated humanity so abominably. - Book of Counted Sorrows 'Cause I won't know the man that kills me and I don't know these men I kill but we all wind up on the same side 'cause ain't none of us doin' god's will. - Everlast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf16 Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 You do whore that smiley! I had thought that some of nature's journeymen had made men and not made them well, for they imitated humanity so abominably. - Book of Counted Sorrows 'Cause I won't know the man that kills me and I don't know these men I kill but we all wind up on the same side 'cause ain't none of us doin' god's will. - Everlast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepixiesrock Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 When Hades isn't trolling, he just posts that smiley. Lou Gutman, P.I.- It's like I'm not even trying anymore!http://theatomicdanger.iforumer.com/index....theatomicdangerOne billion b-balls dribbling simultaneously throughout the galaxy. One trillion b-balls being slam dunked through a hoop throughout the galaxy. I can feel every single b-ball that has ever existed at my fingertips. I can feel their collective knowledge channeling through my viens. Every jumpshot, every rebound and three-pointer, every layup, dunk, and free throw. I am there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaftan Barlast Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 I wish people would just take MY definition of what qualifies as a CRPG and go with that as the official one. It would make things much easier. But what is it that they say at the codex again? :D Must be turn-based You must be able to change the course of the story by your actions and choices in the game You must be able to create your own character Must have the option of having a party of NPCs with you Must be non-linear Must have plenty of dialogue Think that was it. DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
213374U Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 You forgot: Must not be made by Bethesda. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaftan Barlast Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 You forgot:Must not be made by Bethesda. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> But that is because all of the 4 supposed CRPG's that Bethesda has done, have blatantly violated the holy rules above. And theyve even been so bold to say that theyll keep on doing it in future games. DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhombus Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 Notepad is the ultimate CRPG.. What do you want?.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 I wish people would just take MY definition of what qualifies as a CRPG and go with that as the official one. It would make things much easier. But what is it that they say at the codex again? :D Must be turn-based You must be able to change the course of the story by your actions and choices in the game You must be able to create your own character Must have the option of having a party of NPCs with you Must be non-linear Must have plenty of dialogue Think that was it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You pretty much described the 'codex there, minus the swearing. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 Gromnir is a smart man, right on the mark. If you lose yourself playing the game in it's fantasy world and enjoy the character that you are playing who cares if it's a so called real RPG. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually I think Gromnir said that no CRPG can feature true roleplaying because of the predetermined nature of even the most complexly written CRPG, unlike a PnP roleplaying campaign where the players are free to do quite literally whatever they want. It wasn't 'It doesn't matter whether or not they're an actual RPG as long as you're having fun.' so much as 'It doesn't matter whether or not they'r an actual RPG because no CRPG will even have true roleplaying and all of them just have greater and lesser roleplaying elements.' Also it'd be nice if you could come up with your own opinions rather than parroting what's already been said. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> actually, Gromnir were pointing out that argue over def of role-play is pointless. brought up fact that Gromnir's personal def of role-play would exclude every sp crpg on the market... but who cares? is you gonna convince us that we is wrong? am fully aware that many peoples disagree with Gromnir, but so what? why waste the effort... 'specially when regardless of what each person's personal notion o' roleplay is, we all seems to understand what developers of a particular title means. if bio or obsidian makes a crpg you gots a good notion o' what kinda game they is making. if blizzard makes an action crpg you likewise ain't gonna be surprised if it plays like diablo. in and of itself the role-play def is functionally meaningless. this is why we brought up the example of a developer claim of increased role-play features. nevertheless, given context it is a useful, if broad, product labeling device. is not worth arguing over the specific def of role-play. even so, we sees even respected developers wasting effort on such pointlessness. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaftan Barlast Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 The thing is that I agree with them. I can tolerate realtime combat, but I think its a poor compromise. DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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