KotOR_rules2004

The biggest problem I have with Final Fantasy and the like is you are forever going to be Mr. Spikeyhair Bigsword and you need to quell the hearts darkness to reveal the inner light. Why can't you chose gender, appearance, mood? I personaly think it is because people want to be spoon fed. No one wants to read text blurbs anymore, or even the in-game novels that tell you about the lore of the world you are in. I remeber in TES III I would come across books about magic, history, even fantasy books within the fantasy game I am playing and they were a blast to read and added so much to the world. People are scared of big, open worlds now. I quoted my friend as saying (and he is a 100% console only guy) "I like my RPGs to be more linear"...WTF?! Linear and RPG should never ever be used in sentence together unless the sentence is "RPGs are not linear". TAKS you said that games like BG and PS:T force the backstory upon you. This is true as it would be impossible to create your own backstory in a video game unless you are playing an MMO of some kind. Keep in mind the video games, especialy RPGs have a story to tell and you are a big part of that story. Your backstory in important but you still get to chose your own destiny. In most cases there are several endings to a RPG. Generaly good and evil, sometimes a neutral, but you still chose how you wanted your character to play and end the story. This is where JPRGs are completely different. If I sat down and beat a FF I can guarantee that MY player character would be the exact same as YOUR player character. Give or take a few weapons and potions I would be the exact same. Nothing makes the character my own... I hope this came across the right way...I just got off work (8 hr shift) so if I seem a bit upset, you can guess why.

While playing World of Warcraft I got in a discussion with some guildies about what constitutes a RPG. I say games like FF and Xenosaga aren't RPGs, they are a great means to tell a story and explore a character, but you don't role play in any way and don't make the character your own. The other side say that FF is an RPG because you "play a role". When I asked if this means that Halo and Sonic the Hedgehog are RPGs they said yes...and not in a jokingly way. I've noticed that every gaming publication buts FF and the like in the RPG genre, is this because there has been no proper genre created? I think they should be classified as "CBGs" or Character Building Game....you discover who the character is but you also aren't making him/her your own. I hope this post has come across with minimal bias. I know where I stand, but I thought this would be an interesting topic. I also feel that this forum is a more reliable place to post such a question. Other forums such as Gametrailers or Teamxbox would be too full of fanbois to get a real accurate conclusion.

Believe me, I didn't miss it and when I pick up NWN 2 I am gonna have a field day! Once again, thanks alot I really appreciate finally understanding how to deal with this turd nugget (yeah, I said it!). As for the forum topic, well that seems to have gone slightly out the window. True tho, if someone sees numbers floating over an enemies head they say RPG. Speaking of ROGs I think I'm gonna go play WoW. I swear, RP servers in that game are the best thing ever! People actualy care about the story of WCII and III and where it's going, and it is the closest thing to a pen and paper game that doesn't bore me. Well, I dunno, NWN online is actually the closest, but WoW is close because of the people around you. If you play come check me out. I am on Emerald Dream, I have 3 characters there. Revaan (60 Shaman) Mallac (20 Warlock) and Kanderus (10 Rogue). You will more than likely see me either raiding with my 60 or leveling my Warlock...the Rogue is just sort of a "If I am really bored" character.

You guys are right. He is a fool, and clearly doesn't know what the hell a RPG is. But...the one thing that I don't understand is why a RPG can fall under many different terms or genres. I guess I am just getting hung up on the fact that the title says it all, ROLE. PLAYING. GAME. But, as you two said, it is time to just sit back and recognize he man for what he is: ignorant and closed minded. Thanks for the help, counceling, advice, what ever it was it is cooling me out.

What is Macleod? Anyways, I didn't mean to stir up a frenzy it is just...why call it an RPG if key element of an RPG isn't there? I mean, I might as well call Max Payne a FPS and World of Warcraft the best single player game in existence. And, it isn't that they call it an RPG, it is more that they are so ignorant about what an RPG is. To them, BG and NWN are "dice games", and Final Fantasy is a RPG. My buddy actualy once had the nuts to say that "those games" are the lamest things ever created. I grew up with Final Fantasy on the NES and that is what a RPG is. It is the traditional RPG, these other things are "technicaly" RPGs, but only because they share some FF elements". Ofcourse when I argued my point he got all pissed and probably went to go pet is FF cartriges. Seriously tho, FF DID NOT come first. In 1974 Dave Arneson and Gary Gygax created the original pen and paper D&D. Final Fantasy didn't come around till about 1985 or 86. 10+ years later. And, since BG and NWN use D&D rules, settings wouldn't that make THEM the traditional RPGs?

This is something that has been bothering me for a while now. I think we can all agree that games such as Baldur's Gate, KotOR, Planescape: Torment, NWN are RPGs. Why? Because you ROLE PLAY. The setting and rules are a big plus no doubt. Then you move on to other games, like Jade Empire. This game is an Action-RPG. Kingdom Hearts is another example. I consider Jade Empire a RPG because of those two big words; ROLE PLAYING game. You shape the story, you make the character your own, you make the experience your own. No D&D rules, no Forgotten Realms or Planescape or Dragonlance campaign setting. No real time - turn based combat (It had turbo charged Kung-Fu!), and no dice affected comat. Do I prefer these things? Ofcourse, but Jade Empire still a blast to play and replay. Now you gotta look at Kingdom Hearts. Was it a good game? Yeah, but was it a RPG? Not in my opinion. I feel it was very character based game, but not your own character. You were on rails the whole time. You didn't do anything to shape the story or your character. Now, we go to the completely opposite end of the spectrum. The Japanese RPG. Final Fantasy is what I will look at here since it is by far the most well known of the sub-genre. I will first start by saying that I cannot stand these games. To me, they shouldn't bare the acronym RPG and should be called CBGs (Character Building Games). You do NOTHING to affect the story, your character, or the world. No customization AT ALL (ok, Jade Empire didn't have alot either, but atleast something was there) for your character. You can't bring anything to the game except for an apetite for being pulled through a story that doesn't make loads of sense, and an anime' fixation. Please I don't mean to flame, but I have gotten into many arguments with a friend over this matter. If you can't Role Play in a "RPG" then don't call it an RPG. Are they good games? I'm sure they are, I mean, there is no way that millions upon millions of gamers can be wrong about that. But, as for calling it an RPG...come on people. Please let me know your opinions. Once again, I do not mean to flame or belittle anyone but RPGs are things that I am very sensitive over. I mean, if you call Kingdom Hearts and Final Fantasy RPGs then you might as well call God of War an RPG. You can upgrade your attacks and everything!

I recieve an e-mail from Creative Heads that sends you job postings from hundreds of devs and publishers (Sony, Nintendo, BioWare, Blizzard, Midway, Day 1 Studios, etc). And while cruising all of the listings I saw that Obsidian Entertainment was looking for a Systems Designer (PS3, XB360, PC) for "an upcoming console action RPG". Since the only things that Obsidian has EVER annouced is KOTOR II and NWN 2 this is a huge slip up. Could this mean that Obsidian is working on the second instalment of Mass Effect (since it has been said by Ray and Greg themselves that Mass Effect will indeed be a trilogy) or perhaps Jade Empire 2? Maybe it is an original IP from Obsidian? Anyways, we know it will be an action RPG and more than likely be tied to BioWare in some way. Black Isle Studios and BioWare had strong relations in the past, and since Obsidian basically is Black Isle, we can probably safele assume the aforementioned statement. Actually as I am typing this it has accured to me that maybe Obsidian is working on Icewind Dale III? It was sort of action-RPG like. Anyways, here is hoping for the best from Feargus and team!

According to someone I know, BioWare (and companies like them) doesn't make RPGs! Final Fantasy is a traditional RPG. Xenogears/Xenosaga is an traditional RPG. KOTOR, BG, NWN, Planescape, Fallout, they are "dice games" and not real RPGs He says this becuase he grew up with FF for the NES, and hence, all the Japanese style of RPGs are the REAL ones. Is this close minded? I mean, he says that RPG's started in Japan...didn't D&D pretty much start RPGs as we know them? So, a game based on D&D universe and rules, or just the rules is MORE of an RPG than you controlling a spikey haired, big eyed, metro-sexual guy with a sword 10x bigger than himself in a story that you can't even remotely control let alone your character. Oh, and when I try to defend Western RPGs he says "NO! We aren't going to get an an argument over this!" ...but yet he can bash MY STYLE OF RPGs? What do you guys think?

What is this "sacrifice" what I keep seeing artwork of and keep seeing it mentioned? Did I just miss a huge part of the game or something??? AS far as I know, Atton does or says nothing, because after a few questions all I can ask him is if he wants to play pazzak!

OK, from what I understand there are two different main worlds for Zabraks, Iridonia and one other, I just can't think of it. The difference is that the people are actually different. It would be like Canada and China, same species, just a slightly different look and culture.

Well, if you have it for PC (I have both KOTOR and KOTOR II-TSL for XBOX) you can rename all the music files as .mp3 rather than .wav. If you don't, well, find someone who does via internet or just a friend and have them send you a copy! I loved both of the games soundtracks, KOTOR II's was more eery and dark, as expected, but I loved what Jeremy Soule did with KOTOR. The main theme for the first game that had the SW tune fade was great!!!!

Agree with Dark Lord Rulius, I do. Strange it is, to do so becuase Jedi do not mingle with the Sith. KOTOR II is a good game, though confusing, the story can be. A better game in my opinion, KOTOR is. Do not discredit KOTOR II, play through a few times, and you will see the shine. Has an average rating of 86% (8.6/10) it does. Not too bad, that is.

First off I would only count people from the official Star Wars Database, and as far as I know, no single person from KOTOR II-TSL has been added, so Darth Nihilus, Darth Sion, Darth Traya, and Exile are all exempt in my opinion. However all events and characters from KOTOR have been added so Revan, Jolee, Bastilla and others are o.k. Second, How can someone say Luke Skywalker could beat anyone one on one? Yes he is powerful, and yes he crippled the Empire. Sure, he rebuilt the republic, and has started a new Jedi Order. On the other side he isn't keeping the Jedi traditions, like accepting all these grown people into the order. Him and his father, Anakin were exceptions. He learned the art of the lightsaber from and old man and the Jedi were basically no more. So, he would not have the full skill with the weapon as say Mace Windu, or Obi-Wan in his good ol' days. Have you seen the way Luke fights with a lightsaber, it is a bunch of brute swings and lunges, like he is fighting with a Claymore. Don't get me wrong, Luke is very cool, and a great Jedi, but I think he needs to be more Devote to the traditional Jedi.

What I love about Jolee is when you go to talk to him and say : "Never Mind". Then he says: "Oh, I get it, lets mess with the old man's head, he's half senile he won't remember what we were talking about anyway! What was that again". Or something along those lines. And the story he told about the Jedi Apprentice he had with a huge destiny infront of him, that was hilarious as well.

Ummm, how do you know that Revan is Revan's birth name? I really do believe that the name you choose in the beginning of the Greatest Game Ever (KOTOR 1) is the name that he was born with. It would only make sense for the Council to program that name in his brain.

I do not think that Malak and Revan were originaly called by those names. If you notice, Obi-Wan and Yoda never refer to Darth Vader as Anakin, just simply "Vader". Example: "Vader was a pupil of mine, until he turned to evil"--Obi-Wan " Vader, you must confront Vader"--Yoda Keep in mind that Yoda's quote is from Episode VI, and Luke already knows that Darth Vader is his father, and Yoda is aware of Lukes knowledge on this matter. In KOTOR's story the first identity of Malak and Revan is insignificant, and so they don't tell you. Although maybe the name you choose for Revan in the begining was actually his first name?

Well all the events and characters of the original Star Wars: KOTOR have been added to the official Star Wars Database, and Bastilla Shan used a yellow Lightsaber, along with any and all Jedi Sentinals (save me and Revan, since I used Violet or Blue). Back to the Violet thing, I noticed a couple more people usin' 'em: Random Jedi in cutscenes in KOTOR 1, and a girl on the cover of a Star Wars book, and those are all approved by Lucas, so I am thinking that Violet is more a LS color than DS, even though some Dark Jedi use them in the game.

Well, just to post on a seemingly dead thread, I believe that Mace Windu's saber is purple because he is a senior council member and they get all sorts of cool props. Like the hilt to Mace's saber is all hold and razzle-dazzle-like. Maybe there is some more reason behind it, but I have yet to pickup that book. And yes Sam Jackson did want purple/violet, but I mean a reason to fit the universe, not an actors wants.

I have a question that I need answered and I think this is the perfect thread to pose it in: Is Violet a LS Color, DS color, or a neutral color (can be used by any allignment)? I ask this because the only chronicaled Jedi to use a Violet lightsaber was ofcourse the biggest of all bad-asses Mace Windu. On the other hand, during KOTOR 1 in the cutscene that shows Bastilla strike down Darth Revan there is a Jedi with her using a Violet saber, and later on the Star Forge a Jedi comes up to you (she looks Asian) and talks to you, she has a Violet saber too. Some of the Sith that ambush you on various worlds Tatooine, Kashyyyk, etc cary Violet, but only like one or two, most use Red. Anyway, there is more evidence showing LS use rather than DS use. I guess it is neutral leaning to LS, but what do you think.

I only got as far with him as he was a soldier under your command and he was strangley happy to kill any Mandalorians that he came across.

Well I for one think Obsidian did a great job with KOTOR II and tieing it in. Yes, KOTOR is my favorite game of all time and KOTOR II is like #4 or 5. But Kriea in your party does alot of KOTOR II, seeing as how she was his former trainer. She knew Revan the person, not Revan the Darklord and gives you insight into him. I also love the dialogue options with Atton in the begining of the game. That way the NPCs know what Revan did. Also The Exile wouldn't be The Exile if he didn't serve under Revan in the Wars and walk away from the Force.

Well, I've played through once and I defended Khoonda, I am just wondering if my sabotaging the city is the DS action that gets Force Crush available to my character. Or do I simply have to be DS aligned when arriving to and then leaving Dantooine, also killing Master Vrook in the process.

So I should sabotage Khoonda rather than defend it?

My biggest thing about Kriea is how and why did she just get back together w/ Darth Sion when you are on Malachor V??? Answer this please!!!

I heard that this power is available on Dantooine. I have only KOTOR II once (LS) and am setting to play it DS this second time. I do not remember coming across anything my first time on Dantooine, anyone know how to acquire Force Crush.