Apparently all of us were wrong

[KotOR_rules2004]

According to someone I know, BioWare (and companies like them) doesn't make RPGs! Final Fantasy is a traditional RPG. Xenogears/Xenosaga is an traditional RPG. KOTOR, BG, NWN, Planescape, Fallout, they are "dice games" and not real RPGs

 

He says this becuase he grew up with FF for the NES, and hence, all the Japanese style of RPGs are the REAL ones. Is this close minded? I mean, he says that RPG's started in Japan...didn't D&D pretty much start RPGs as we know them? So, a game based on D&D universe and rules, or just the rules is MORE of an RPG than you controlling a spikey haired, big eyed, metro-sexual guy with a sword 10x bigger than himself in a story that you can't even remotely control let alone your character.

 

Oh, and when I try to defend Western RPGs he says "NO! We aren't going to get an an argument over this!" ...but yet he can bash MY STYLE OF RPGs?

 

What do you guys think?

[karka]

I'd never speak with that guy again. Really.

Edited July 10, 2006 by karka

[BicycleOfDeath]

I encourage you to make a homemade explosive device and have it delivered to that guy. Scratch that, I strongly encourage it. Put nails in it along with polystyrene and a flammable liquid.

 

Would that be considered flaming?

Edited July 10, 2006 by AngryKidJoe

[Bokishi]

You give that guy a good slap and tell him to go play Ms. Pacman.

[Gromnir]

people who argue over what is and is not role-play in a sp crpg deserves whatever misfortune eventually befalls 'em.

 

you know what kinda game you is gonna be getting if you buys an action-crpg, or a western crpg, or a japanese-crpg. is genre labels to helps the consumer, so who freaking cares if there is genuine role-play in ff or bg or diablo?

 

Gromnir doesn't believe that genuine role-play is possible in a sp crpg. what fool is gonna spend effort trying to convince Gromnir that he is wrong, and that ff and bg and/or diablo has real role-play? what you gain from such an effort?

 

as long as developers and publishers and consumers all understand what is in box with a crpg label on it, then why does anybody friggn' care what is oris not genuine role-play?

 

if a developer says, "we are attempting to maximize role-play opportunities in our next title," is you gonna be satisfied, or is you gonna wonder what specific features has been added and what design changes has been made by the developer in question? you is gonna wonder 'cause role-play not mean a damn thing in and of itself.

 

bah.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Archmonarch]

I agree with Gromnir. Ive always tended to view cRPGs more as interactive novels than a trule role-playing experience, excepting minor choices of alignment and attitude.

[BicycleOfDeath]

I agree with that point but JRPGs are... Linear. That's not any more of an RPG than any of D&D based game.

[alanschu]

Just laugh at him and say whatever.

 

Maybe point out that if the rest of the world seems to think they are RPGs, then they probably are.

 

If he wants to go on about how Final Fantasy was first, educate him about the joys of games like Ultima. The first trilogy of Ultima games were released before the Nintendo was even released.

 

Or you could just ignore it, as it's not really that big of a deal.

 

 

If he insists on telling you to be quiet, tell him to **** off.

Edited July 10, 2006 by alanschu

[Volourn]

He's as close minded as the opposite side who claim that FFish games aren't 'RPGs', and only 'Western style' RPGs are. They both are - just with different focuses.

[GhostofAnakin]

Close minded? Yes.

 

An idiot? Yes.

 

That's pretty much all you need to remember about that friend.

[Pidesco]

Tell your friend that the first Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy games were dumbed down Ultima clones. Still are, if you ask me.

[Volourn]

"Tell your friend that the first Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy games were dumbed down Ultima clones. Still are, if you ask me."

 

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

 

 

But, no.

[CoM_Solaufein]

Gromnir is a smart man, right on the mark. If you lose yourself playing the game in it's fantasy world and enjoy the character that you are playing who cares if it's a so called real RPG.

[Fenghuang]

Gromnir is a smart man, right on the mark. If you lose yourself playing the game in it's fantasy world and enjoy the character that you are playing who cares if it's a so called real RPG.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Actually I think Gromnir said that no CRPG can feature true roleplaying because of the predetermined nature of even the most complexly written CRPG, unlike a PnP roleplaying campaign where the players are free to do quite literally whatever they want. It wasn't 'It doesn't matter whether or not they're an actual RPG as long as you're having fun.' so much as 'It doesn't matter whether or not they'r an actual RPG because no CRPG will even have true roleplaying and all of them just have greater and lesser roleplaying elements.'

 

Also it'd be nice if you could come up with your own opinions rather than parroting what's already been said.

Edited July 10, 2006 by Fenghuang

[LoneWolf16]

Also it'd be nice if you could come up with your own opinions rather than parroting what's already been said.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, quit parroting what's already been said! SQUUUAAWWK

 

 

Ahem.

 

Not to parrot or anything, but the guy's an idiot.

[Judge Hades]

[LoneWolf16]

You do whore that smiley!

[thepixiesrock]

When Hades isn't trolling, he just posts that smiley.

[Kaftan Barlast]

I wish people would just take MY definition of what qualifies as a CRPG and go with that as the official one. It would make things much easier.

 

 

But what is it that they say at the codex again? :D

• Must be turn-based
  
• You must be able to change the course of the story by your actions and choices in the game
  
• You must be able to create your own character
  
• Must have the option of having a party of NPCs with you
  
• Must be non-linear
  
• Must have plenty of dialogue
  

Think that was it.

[213374U]

You forgot:

• Must not be made by Bethesda.
  

[Kaftan Barlast]

You forgot:

• Must not be made by Bethesda.
  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

But that is because all of the 4 supposed CRPG's that Bethesda has done, have blatantly violated the holy rules above. And theyve even been so bold to say that theyll keep on doing it in future games.

[Rhombus]

Notepad is the ultimate CRPG..

[Meshugger]

I wish people would just take MY definition of what qualifies as a CRPG and go with that as the official one. It would make things much easier.

 

 

But what is it that they say at the codex again? :D

• Must be turn-based
   
  
• You must be able to change the course of the story by your actions and choices in the game
   
  
• You must be able to create your own character
   
  
• Must have the option of having a party of NPCs with you
   
  
• Must be non-linear
   
  
• Must have plenty of dialogue
  

Think that was it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You pretty much described the 'codex there, minus the swearing.

[Gromnir]

Gromnir is a smart man, right on the mark. If you lose yourself playing the game in it's fantasy world and enjoy the character that you are playing who cares if it's a so called real RPG.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Actually I think Gromnir said that no CRPG can feature true roleplaying because of the predetermined nature of even the most complexly written CRPG, unlike a PnP roleplaying campaign where the players are free to do quite literally whatever they want. It wasn't 'It doesn't matter whether or not they're an actual RPG as long as you're having fun.' so much as 'It doesn't matter whether or not they'r an actual RPG because no CRPG will even have true roleplaying and all of them just have greater and lesser roleplaying elements.'

 

Also it'd be nice if you could come up with your own opinions rather than parroting what's already been said.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

actually, Gromnir were pointing out that argue over def of role-play is pointless. brought up fact that Gromnir's personal def of role-play would exclude every sp crpg on the market... but who cares? is you gonna convince us that we is wrong? am fully aware that many peoples disagree with Gromnir, but so what? why waste the effort... 'specially when regardless of what each person's personal notion o' roleplay is, we all seems to understand what developers of a particular title means.

 

if bio or obsidian makes a crpg you gots a good notion o' what kinda game they is making. if blizzard makes an action crpg you likewise ain't gonna be surprised if it plays like diablo.

 

in and of itself the role-play def is functionally meaningless. this is why we brought up the example of a developer claim of increased role-play features. nevertheless, given context it is a useful, if broad, product labeling device.

 

 

is not worth arguing over the specific def of role-play. even so, we sees even respected developers wasting effort on such pointlessness.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Kaftan Barlast]

The thing is that I agree with them. I can tolerate realtime combat, but I think its a poor compromise.