Child of Flame Posted March 7, 2005 Author Posted March 7, 2005 Why are they going to close the forums? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Problems with the management.
Torpar Posted March 7, 2005 Posted March 7, 2005 Sigh... I'm going to miss these forums. I do enjoy reading the banter between members here, although I am unable to contribute much to their discussions. The people here are humorous, informative, and a little eccentric - which is what I find most appealing of the Obsidian forums... Well, until the boards reopen again, Torpar PS. Has it been confirmed that Obsidian will be closing the forums? The Annoucement has only said that the staff is considering it...
kirottu Posted March 7, 2005 Posted March 7, 2005 PS. Has it been confirmed that Obsidian will be closing the forums? The Annoucement has only said that the staff is considering it... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That This post is not to be enjoyed, discussed, or referenced on company time.
ShadowPaladin V1.0 Posted March 7, 2005 Posted March 7, 2005 Things have really settled down now. And most of the new arrivals are really happy with the place. Those coming spouting ill informed opinions less so. I still dont see it as being any great benifit to Obsidian keeping them open. But if Feargus wants to do a favour for all those people who have followed him around for years across various boards keeping it open as a place to hang out would probably be universally appreciated, even if the developers cant be around as much as they would like to be. I have to agree with Volourn. Bioware is pretty much dead now. Deals like this kills development studios. 478327[/snapback]
Phosphor Posted March 7, 2005 Posted March 7, 2005 I still dont see it as being any great benifit to Obsidian keeping them open. But if Feargus wants to do a favour for all those people who have followed him around for years across various boards keeping it open as a place to hang out would probably be universally appreciated, even if the developers cant be around as much as they would like to be. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, it's my impression that Feargus had wanted a more robust community, a place where people would talk about things with merit and substance, and not be filled with spam, flames, whining, griping, indignation and arrogant demands. These boards have been provided as a courtesy, not as a right, and I believe Obsidian feels that courtesy has been abused. From a moderator perspective, it was their/our hope that the forums would not need to have strict moderation, and that people would respect that and act with consideration. Of course we all know there will be trolls and problematic people, but it's pretty clear that Obsidian feels the ratio of trolls and problem people is greater than the good that is here. Were the boards to remain open, or re-open at a later date, we would be excercising much stricter moderation and sterner enforcement of board rules.
kirottu Posted March 7, 2005 Posted March 7, 2005 Were the boards to remain open, or re-open at a later date, we would be excercising much stricter moderation and sterner enforcement of board rules. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> :ph34r: I think the boards are fine as they are. I did get bored with general kotor 2 discussion forum, but I just stayed away from it for a while and it seems to be cooled down. This post is not to be enjoyed, discussed, or referenced on company time.
Camael Posted March 7, 2005 Posted March 7, 2005 I still dont see it as being any great benifit to Obsidian keeping them open. But if Feargus wants to do a favour for all those people who have followed him around for years across various boards keeping it open as a place to hang out would probably be universally appreciated, even if the developers cant be around as much as they would like to be. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, it's my impression that Feargus had wanted a more robust community, a place where people would talk about things with merit and substance, and not be filled with spam, flames, whining, griping, indignation and arrogant demands. These boards have been provided as a courtesy, not as a right, and I believe Obsidian feels that courtesy has been abused. From a moderator perspective, it was their/our hope that the forums would not need to have strict moderation, and that people would respect that and act with consideration. Of course we all know there will be trolls and problematic people, but it's pretty clear that Obsidian feels the ratio of trolls and problem people is greater than the good that is here. Were the boards to remain open, or re-open at a later date, we would be excercising much stricter moderation and sterner enforcement of board rules. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think something they should try first would be to just close down the KOTOR2 forums and just keep the
Gromnir Posted March 7, 2005 Posted March 7, 2005 "Well, it's my impression that Feargus had wanted a more robust community, a place where people would talk about things with merit and substance, and not be filled with spam, flames, whining, griping, indignation and arrogant demands." nonsense. if every other post was simply along the lines of, "d00d! UR 50 kewl and your game r0x0rz," there would be no time spent considering the closure of the boards. that kinda spam is ok. however, when the comments is negative they is relegated to the status of, "spam, flames, whining, griping, indignation and arrogant demands." pardon our whining indignation, but Gromnir, as often as not, has been the target of complaints concerning many of those things listed 'bove, and we has seen just how fickle those handing out the labels can be. "YOU SUCK DONKEY BALLS," were the example fergie supplied as the kinda thing he found offensive. harsh criticism were ok as long as it have substance... or so he claimed. the donkey balls posts is, in point of fact, a relatively insignificant minority of total posts. however, it is true that virtually any negative post directed at obsidian can be described as being composed of, "whining, griping, indignation and arrogant demands." *shrug* as we has noted 'fore, as soon as these boards become more trouble than they is worth, they will be closed down. boards is cheap and effective advertising/marketing of obsidian product. if it not seem like the right message is being communicated 'bout obsidian products, then we can see why fergie would wanna put the kibosh on 'em. if it becomes significantly more expensive to maintain the boards, then they may no longer be so cost effective... benefits no longer outweigh costs. regardless, the ultimate problem arises from the fact that the spammers and flamers and complainers is NEGATIVE... but fergie surely ain't gonna say that the boards is being closed 'cause of surprising 'mounts of negative backlash following kotor2. where is diogenes when you need "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Aponez Posted March 7, 2005 Posted March 7, 2005 It was funny. Take care men PRIUS FLAMMIS COMBUSTA QUAM ARMIS NUMANCIA VICTA
Gromnir Posted March 7, 2005 Posted March 7, 2005 perspective: Gromnir has, over the years, been the target of accusations from bis/obsidian developers and presidents n' such... accusations that looks real familiar when you look at phos' list. we has discovered just how meaningless those lists are. is a progression... almost always the same. firstest, the developer/organization will claim that they not mind criticism, even harsh criticism, as long as is thoughtful. 'course, when the thoughtful multi-page criticisms come rolling in, the organization is far from happy or satisfied. feedback need now be more than thoughtful... if you is gonna be critical w/o supplying practical solutions then you has supplied no constructive criticism at all. point out that you DID make suggestions of alternatives/solutions and the developer still complains that you is too antagonistic, etc... regardless, the average poster does not have degrees in computer science or english... chances are that they will have a very difficult time describing what was wrong with the kotor2 ending and the likelihood that they will come up with practical solutions to framerate problems seems even more doubtful. when a consumer feels that a product did not meet their expectations they wish to complain 'bout it... but chances are that they does not have the tools to give particularly insightful feedback... so they do the best they can... or the worst. they says, "the ending sucked." is they wrong for doing so? should those folks who not have mfa in english be precluded from posting on story issues? should folks w/o cs degrees be barred from discussing technical concerns. should folks who has not published their own rules system be prevented from complaining of balance issues? everybody wanna believe that they can accept criticism... even harsh criticism. very few can. have no more to say on this issue... 'less somebody from obsidian wanna respond. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Carth Vader Posted March 7, 2005 Posted March 7, 2005 My last post... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Mine too. Goodby Obsidian Forums, we hardly knew ye.
Arkan Posted March 7, 2005 Posted March 7, 2005 I still dont see it as being any great benifit to Obsidian keeping them open. But if Feargus wants to do a favour for all those people who have followed him around for years across various boards keeping it open as a place to hang out would probably be universally appreciated, even if the developers cant be around as much as they would like to be. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, it's my impression that Feargus had wanted a more robust community, a place where people would talk about things with merit and substance, and not be filled with spam, flames, whining, griping, indignation and arrogant demands. These boards have been provided as a courtesy, not as a right, and I believe Obsidian feels that courtesy has been abused. From a moderator perspective, it was their/our hope that the forums would not need to have strict moderation, and that people would respect that and act with consideration. Of course we all know there will be trolls and problematic people, but it's pretty clear that Obsidian feels the ratio of trolls and problem people is greater than the good that is here. Were the boards to remain open, or re-open at a later date, we would be excercising much stricter moderation and sterner enforcement of board rules. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sorry, I just don't agree. You and Fio lock your fair share of useless threads that get in the way of "discussion." What more does one need? And the problem with nobody talking about things with merit and substance...well, that's because there is nothing to talk about. KotOR is out there already and Atari stole the NWN forums. Solution? Obsidian needs to announce a third project.. "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." - Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials "I have also been slowly coming to the realisation that knowledge and happiness are not necessarily coincident, and quite often mutually exclusive" - meta
ShadowPaladin V1.0 Posted March 7, 2005 Posted March 7, 2005 If Feargus, or any of the other devs wanted people to discuss certain things then they would only have to make a thread title and the rest would just happen. Obviously it would be much easier for the mods to keep these threads tidy because they would be quite clearly marked. Rather than having to delve through 100+ threads to check what was going on. Even if it was a case of every week the threads were commented on and the next thread topic started it would still give people the idea that the developers were listening. I have to agree with Volourn. Bioware is pretty much dead now. Deals like this kills development studios. 478327[/snapback]
Darth Jebus Posted March 7, 2005 Posted March 7, 2005 I still dont see it as being any great benifit to Obsidian keeping them open. But if Feargus wants to do a favour for all those people who have followed him around for years across various boards keeping it open as a place to hang out would probably be universally appreciated, even if the developers cant be around as much as they would like to be. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, it's my impression that Feargus had wanted a more robust community, a place where people would talk about things with merit and substance, and not be filled with spam, flames, whining, griping, indignation and arrogant demands. These boards have been provided as a courtesy, not as a right, and I believe Obsidian feels that courtesy has been abused. From a moderator perspective, it was their/our hope that the forums would not need to have strict moderation, and that people would respect that and act with consideration. Of course we all know there will be trolls and problematic people, but it's pretty clear that Obsidian feels the ratio of trolls and problem people is greater than the good that is here. Were the boards to remain open, or re-open at a later date, we would be excercising much stricter moderation and sterner enforcement of board rules. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sorry, I just don't agree. You and Fio lock your fair share of useless threads that get in the way of "discussion." What more does one need? And the problem with nobody talking about things with merit and substance...well, that's because there is nothing to talk about. KotOR is out there already and Atari stole the NWN forums. Solution? Obsidian needs to announce a third project.. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Spot-on target, there. But, Phosphor's comment about implementing much stricter moderation of the boards shouldn't surprise anyone. That's exactly what BioWare did with their boards. If you doubt it, try going over there and posting something along the lines of "JADE EMPIRE IS GONNA SUCK BECAUSE NWN SUCKED, AND KOTOR SUCKED AND...AND....AND....WELL, YOU ALL SUCK. ALSO, SUCK!!!!1111" Your post would not only be deleted but, I would wager you would also be banned. I have to say, though, that the thinking on the part of Feargus and co. that they shouldn't need strict moderation of their boards and that only substantive and constructive disucussion would be happening on here is a little short-sided. I mean, without strict moderation you'll have things like people posting the email addresses of LucasArts executives and starting online petitions and all sorts of crazy stuff. For example, that cut ending thread created by Aurora made national news. In this day and age of the information superhighway, you HAVE TO HAVE strict moderation. There simply is no other way. Ask BioWare. Hell, ask Howard Stern. I remember a year ago or something when Howard opened up his forums and they quickly had to shut it down for a while because people were just out of control over there. They were doing things like posting personal phone numbers and addresses on those boards, from what I understand (I totally never went over there because I never had any interest to). But stuff like that can happen without strict moderation. Now, amplify that by about a hundred times when you're dealing with a videogame company, where the majority of posters (I assume) are kids and teenagers. Kids and teenagers who, btw, are alot smarter than most mods And add to that the fact that vidgame developers use their forums as a means of PR as well. They are very leary of their boards turning into a flame fest because they know that people from Gamespy, Gamespot, Penny Arcade, Slashdot, and any other pub or website associated with the vidgame industry or geekdom in general, is going to be visiting those forums on a daily basis. And if you doubt that, you haven't been paying attention to those above mentioned sites, where, like I said before, the cut ending thread and the online petition thread have made their rounds now all over the net. Hell, theforce.net is on the case now. So, yeah, they definitely need strict moderation here, like they have at BioWare and every other vidgame developer out there.
Ellester Posted March 7, 2005 Posted March 7, 2005 I think a factor is also who are the employees at Obsidian and how they respond to criticism? I don Life is like a clam. Years of filtering crap then some bastard cracks you open and scrapes you into its damned mouth, end of story. - Steven Erikson
Kaftan Barlast Posted March 7, 2005 Posted March 7, 2005 I think you're taking this too far. I dont belive this has anything to do with Obsidian wanting to hush critiscism or LA putting their publishers foot down. Its: 1. OE dont feel like they have staff enough to manage the forums properly. 2. The point of a forum like this is interaction between fans and developers, if the devs dont have time to interact then why waste the bandwidth? DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. "
B5C Posted March 7, 2005 Posted March 7, 2005 What is wrong with a little dictatorship with some policeing? In the other threads before. There are alot of people willing to voluteer be a moderator! Obsidian has to be crazy not to get free labour.
213374U Posted March 7, 2005 Posted March 7, 2005 What is wrong with a little dictatorship with some policeing? In the other threads before. There are alot of people willing to voluteer be a moderator! Obsidian has to be crazy not to get free labour. Uh, I'd be *really* frightened if some of those "volunteers" were actually appointed as moderators. It'd be like giving a loaded assault rifle to a crazed baboon. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
wannabealoser125 Posted March 7, 2005 Posted March 7, 2005 Maybe.... since the moderators have all poped back out of know where doing stuff again, there going to attempt to keep them open
Laozi Posted March 7, 2005 Posted March 7, 2005 Save Feargus People laugh when I say that I think a jellyfish is one of the most beautiful things in the world. What they don't understand is, I mean a jellyfish with long, blond hair.
jaguars4ever Posted March 7, 2005 Posted March 7, 2005 Maybe.... since the addministrators have all poped back out of know where doing stuff again, there going to attempt to keep them open <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Let's hope it's not the calm before the storm...
Stephen Amber Posted March 7, 2005 Posted March 7, 2005 Stick a fork in them... If the designers are'nt gleaning anything of value from the forums, as seems to be the case, then they serve no purpose. And no, a long winded lecture telling them buck up and thicken their skins probably is'nt going to help.
wannabealoser125 Posted March 8, 2005 Posted March 8, 2005 Has anyone else noticed that in the last half hour michael chu and akari have been on??:ph34r: Maybe there ploting something with the forums!... non have posted anything though....
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