213374U Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 You know what's the rather scary (almost sad) thing? Going through this thread, the non-English speaking countries (or atleast the ones where English isn't the mother-tongue) have better spelling and grammar than quite a few of the English speaking countries. Which goes back to my theory that North American school system=deteriorating at a frightening pace. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Don't sweat it. Where I live the average English level is rather low. It's just that to read some English boards comfortably people need a certain level, otherwise it becomes more work than it's worth. If the only non-English speaking people that write in these boards are a bit knowledgeable, it's only logical their spelling will be good. When I talk to some of my buddies via MSN, I get the feeling our school system should be seriously revised too. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 Wow what a great variety of locales, if only the UN worked as well as the people here (In general terms at least) the planet would be a nicer place. I'm from San Juan, Puerto Rico. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabahattin Dere Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 Not everyone on these boards is the same age; I believe one could expect a 25 year old non-native English speaker with considerable writing-reading experience behind him to have a better command of the language, compared to a 13 year old native speaker. In any case, one area where the non-native will hardly match the native speaker is that of spoken language which is always more difficult to thoroughly master as a second language. I for one would have had much less to say if these forums were 'spoken' as opposed to just written. Zwangvolle Plage! M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheedee Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 In any case, one area where the non-native will hardly match the native speaker is that of spoken language which is always more difficult to thoroughly master as a second language. I for one would have had much less to say if these forums were 'spoken' as opposed to just written. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I beg to differ; I am not a native speaker and yet I bet you wouldn't be able to tell my english from a native one I's all a matter of practice. I use english every day and therefor I am good at it. Besides it's not that hard a language to learn. As for the grammar and spelling. In my opinion, non-native speakers' grammar is good either because they're not sure enaugh to use a slang or they know how hard it is for someone else to comprehend a slang if he/she doesn't know it. Conclusion: Use your english and you'll improve Just my two cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Cypher Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 In any case, one area where the non-native will hardly match the native speaker is that of spoken language which is always more difficult to thoroughly master as a second language. I for one would have had much less to say if these forums were 'spoken' as opposed to just written. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I beg to differ; I am not a native speaker and yet I bet you wouldn't be able to tell my english from a native one I's all a matter of practice. I use english every day and therefor I am good at it. Besides it's not that hard a language to learn. As for the grammar and spelling. In my opinion, non-native speakers' grammar is good either because they're not sure enaugh to use a slang or they know how hard it is for someone else to comprehend a slang if he/she doesn't know it. Conclusion: Use your english and you'll improve Just my two cents <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What about local English dialect? There's so many because english is the ultimate bastarditised language! It's weird because I have no accent but I come from Nottingham and moved to Devon (both heavily accentised) and it's just weird, that's all! But then, some people english "argot" that's come around is total s*ite! So your probably right because people see the worst things and look like idiots! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Cypher Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 Just thought I'd rant about that! It really annoys me that people living in Britian can't be bothered to speak English properly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabahattin Dere Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 What I'm saying is that mastering a second language in a writing-oriented manner makes it more difficult to attain similar fluency in speech. I know people whose English "you wouldn't be able to tell", in writing, from the highest literary styles mastered by the best educated 'natives' --but, surprise surprise: When it comes to rapid thinking-speech, then all of a sudden you see a decrease in vocabulary, resorting to simpler sentence forms, etc. If your understanding of having a concern to develop an advanced command of grammar is that it is an excuse to not knowing enough slang, then you're probably talking in terms of daily 'practical' language; and about that, yes, you're right, practice does allow fluency. Zwangvolle Plage! M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithLordMaster Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 I'm from Cleveland Ohio, but live in Texas atm. USA USA USA USA USA USA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joakim D Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 I'm from Iceland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archmonarch Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 Very nice country. I visited once. My uncle was stationed on the NATO base in Keflavik. And I find it kind of funny I find it kind of sad The dreams in which I'm dying Are the best I've ever had Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigboy2 Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 I'm from Cleveland Ohio, but live in Texas atm. USA USA USA USA USA USA! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Longhorns are better! UT! l..l "Your total disregard for the law and human decency both disgusts me and touches my heart. Bless you, sir." "Soilent Green is people. This guy's just a homeless heroin junkie who got in a internet caf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The man in the iron mask Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 Connecticut, USA. Live forever or die trying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosbjerg Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 What I'm saying is that mastering a second language in a writing-oriented manner makes it more difficult to attain similar fluency in speech. I know people whose English "you wouldn't be able to tell", in writing, from the highest literary styles mastered by the best educated 'natives' --but, surprise surprise: When it comes to rapid thinking-speech, then all of a sudden you see a decrease in vocabulary, resorting to simpler sentence forms, etc. If your understanding of having a concern to develop an advanced command of grammar is that it is an excuse to not knowing enough slang, then you're probably talking in terms of daily 'practical' language; and about that, yes, you're right, practice does allow fluency. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I really depends on the school system .. In Denmark (where I'm from), we start in 3rd grade (age 9) and people are generally much better at speaking english than writing it, (although they tend to have an really annoying accent!) because our system emphasizes the spoken word over the written.. at least thats my experiance! but yes, the emphasis will normally lie on the writing! Since its the general understanding that you can't speak a language properly without knowing the grammatical rules. But I don't think it's ironic that people, to whom english is a secondary language, will be fundamentally better at it! we study english in a much more serious manner because it's a necessity to our every-day lives (and we need to learn it fast).. the vast majority of international movies, books, games are in english even most of the internet is! and if you travel in those lanes alot, of course you will get a good rudimentary understanding of the language and improve it over time! if you are from England, Canada or The US you won't feel the same need to develop your skills, and won't focus on your grammar in the same manner as non-natives would, because you feel secure (and perhaps a little to much) in the fact that it's your native tounge! at least that's my theory .. and of course this is all generally speaking! Fortune favors the bald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofAnakin Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 But I don't think it's ironic that people, to whom english is a secondary language, will be fundamentally better at it! we study english in a much more serious manner because it's a necessity to our every-day lives (and we need to learn it fast).. the vast majority of international movies, books, games are in english even most of the internet is! and if you travel in those lanes alot, of course you will get a good rudimentary understanding of the language and improve it over time! if you are from England, Canada or The US you won't feel the same need to develop your skills, and won't focus on your grammar in the same manner as non-natives would, because you feel secure (and perhaps a little to much) in the fact that it's your native tounge! at least that's my theory .. and of course this is all generally speaking! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Do people from non-English speaking countries have the same annoying habbit that many English "teens" have with the stupid internet lingo? Nothing bothers me more than trying to decipher a post by someone who insists on using words like "dat" or "wut" or "dis" or any other internet shorthand instead of spelling it "that", "what" and "this". Ugh. Teenagers annoy me to no end. [/end rant] "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosbjerg Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 Do people from non-English speaking countries have the same annoying habbit that many English "teens" have with the stupid internet lingo? Nothing bothers me more than trying to decipher a post by someone who insists on using words like "dat" or "wut" or "dis" or any other internet shorthand instead of spelling it "that", "what" and "this". Ugh. Teenagers annoy me to no end. [/end rant] Well I'll have to ask them .. but no, they don't! They do however rape their own language just the same! its the mobilephone era, it's all to save time and space .. and I find it just as annoying as you! be it English, Danish or any other language! the ironic thing is that contraction like "it's" "we'll" and so on was hated just as much when they appeared in the written language in their time.. so in a 100 years everyone will probably be writing like "dis"! Fortune favors the bald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabahattin Dere Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 Yes I find it utterly unbearable in Turkish too; just to save a couple of vowels they rape the language. When I enter a message on the mobile phone, if only to state my position against this, I write long sentences, fully punctuated. Zwangvolle Plage! M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofAnakin Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 the ironic thing is that contraction like "it's" "we'll" and so on was hated just as much when they appeared in the written language in their time.. so in a 100 years everyone will probably be writing like "dis"! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Good thing I'll be long since dead by 100 years from now. Otherwise I'd probably end up going insane and shooting up a shopping mall if I had to read that kind of incoherent gibberish on a regular basis. "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MASTER Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 From: Houston, Texas, USA, North America, Westerner hemisaphier, Earth, EXC....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savio_ Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 hmm nobody frm south east asia? heh iam from Singapore. =D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludozee Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 Only 2 Dutch members overhere ? I thought there where more than just 2! How sad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalyst Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 Do people from non-English speaking countries have the same annoying habbit that many English "teens" have with the stupid internet lingo? Nothing bothers me more than trying to decipher a post by someone who insists on using words like "dat" or "wut" or "dis" or any other internet shorthand instead of spelling it "that", "what" and "this". Ugh. Teenagers annoy me to no end. [/end rant] <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think you'll find that most of the teens you find doing this are townies. For those who don't understand what this means, it means they like dance 'music', dress in blinding white tracksuits, wear lots of 'bling' (fake gold medalions, etc), tuck their tracksuit bottoms into their socks and have a really bad attitude. What I find strange is that most older people in Britain claim that moshers and goths are the vandals, which is in fact wrong. Moshers and Goths tend to be more intelligent, intellectual and articulate. They also have better music taste. Anyways, back to the point, you'll find that people abbreviating their words as mentioned above actually speak like that. I think this stems from one of two reasons: a) They are all 'wannabe' rappers - don't ask me why. b) They want to sound like they grew up on the streets of New York. Perhaps they believe this gives them more 'street cred'. Strange... :ph34r: Anyway, GhostOfAnakin, thats the best I can do to answer your question/rant Please note that there are intelligent, articulate teens in Britain. Unfortunately we are few compared to the townie masses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demigod Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 Uk England Derbyshire Glossop SK13 8DN There now who can find me :D (As for the teen bit I personally hate how they repeat "init" endlessly) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonatine Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 Durham, England. Nice and sunny at the moment, but a little on the chilly side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalyst Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 UkEngland Derbyshire Glossop SK13 8DN There now who can find me :D (As for the teen bit I personally hate how they repeat "init" endlessly) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Lol. How many townies does it take to screw in a lightbulb? 1 to screw it in and 9 more to shout "Innit! Innit! Innit!" :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fighter Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 Moscow, Russia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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