BG3 - Butt kicking for goodness!

[Hawke64]

22 hours ago, InsaneCommander said:

More camp scenes. Aylin didn’t wanna talk, said she wants to be with Isobel. And I’m not picking the “I didn’t get to know you yet” option with Halsin.

The Guardian story advanced a lot.

 

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I got a game over trying to free the prince. After reloading and helping the emperor, it is a quest. Good enough. I already suspected the Guardian was a mindflayer. Not sure when I was supposed to start doing it, but when he said it was unusual for the brine pools to be empty of tadpoles it became unavoidable.

The astral tadpole was sent to the camp chest with the other twenty or so. There must be a lot of Ilithid powers in the game. I’ll leave those for my next playthrough.

I saw on YouTube that there is a cutscene when you go meet with the Guardian. I didn’t see it in my game. Once again, I wonder how much content is bugged.

Approaching Baldur’s Gate I met a child with a missing mom and mysteriously it’s not a quest. If it was a scam, then the amateur left with only a few goodberries.

Spoiler

1. I tried the same on my first playthrough with the same result. It was nice to see a unique game over screen/scene.

2. As I understand, there are quite a few quest flags that might work incorrectly or not work at all at the moment. The patches fix some of them and break some others. Which scene, by the way? The one where the camera zooms at the party and then shows the skull after entering the Astral Prism?

3. It might reasonable to have Lae'zel, Gale, or Halsin at the camp when exploring the Lower City.

 

21 hours ago, PK htiw klaw eriF said:

I think a lot of stuff is tied to taking Long Rests so if you're able to do a lot of stuff you can miss scenes. Like Dark Urge has one that requires you to rest almost immediately after escaping the prologue area.

The combination of hidden timers and camp scenes bound to Long Rests is a puzzling one. I guess, if the map was separated into smaller logical areas with the rests taking place between them and all queued scenes triggering on the same rest, it would have been at least more transparent. Or if the camp areas existed at specific points on the map.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I did a big test, found the last piece of Dribbles (which was within view of the circus lady), played a genie's game, raided the House of Hope, and put an end to this Absolute business. Which means it's over. General thoughts are that the level cap could easily be 2-4 levels higher with the game as is....and hell I think the full 20 would work with some tweaks to all three acts. Act 3 jank is certainly a thing and the last fights are complete bull****.

[Sarex]

4 minutes ago, PK htiw klaw eriF said:

I did a big test, found the last piece of Dribbles (which was within view of the circus lady), played a genie's game, raided the House of Hope, and put an end to this Absolute business. Which means it's over. General thoughts are that the level cap could easily be 2-4 levels higher with the game as is....and hell I think the full 20 would work with some tweaks to all three acts. Act 3 jank is certainly a thing and the last fights are complete bull****.

I think they were out of time as is, adding more levels would have dragged the latter part of the game even more.

[Hawke64]

1 hour ago, Sarex said:

I think they were out of time as is, adding more levels would have dragged the latter part of the game even more.

I guess, the high-level spells in general could be a problem - Plane Shift or Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion would take quite a lot of effort to implement.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

3 hours ago, Sarex said:

I think they were out of time as is, adding more levels would have dragged the latter part of the game even more.

The levels are already there for a few cases and I've seen stuff for subclasses players can't select. Level 12 is fine powerwise but it feels like I spent 10-15 hours at level 12 without picking up anything and I wish some late game encounters were a bit harder. Also nerf irresistible dance, because by god it is ****ing broken.

1 hour ago, Hawke64 said:

I guess, the high-level spells in general could be a problem - Plane Shift or Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion would take quite a lot of effort to implement.

I think a hypothetical implementation of 7-9 spells in BG3 would definitely need curating to work. Obviously this is gonna favor control and blasting over utility....but when I think about my most used spells that's what they tend to he anyways.

And the camp is pretty much MMM lmao.

[Wormerine]

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I went back to check some things and discovered that if you cast Heal on a Dark Urge, you can get a couple of different memories. Why did it take so long to figure out when I spent maybe a quarter of the game above level 11 and Shadowheart was always a fixture in the party? Because Planar Ally is too good not to use.

If you haven't done the DU quest, you get a memory of your first kill. If you have done the quest a reject Bhaal, you get a memory of your life before Bhaal's influence took over your life.

It's pretty minor but a nice touch.

[InsaneCommander]

I haven’t played much recently since Act III is lagging a lot. I'll probably have to reduce the graphics quality. Anyway, I reached Rivington and decided it was time to stop looking like trash to make sure they wouldn’t stop my party from entering the city. Got some new clothes for everyone and changed the view to camp clothes. They are still covered with blood though.

I’m picking all the sarcastic dialogue options about refugees when talking with the xenophobic citizens and it’s hilarious. Not for being sarcastic, but because my character is not that bright and genuinely understands everything wrong.

I also took Shadowheart, Gale and the kids to the circus. The latter group includes Karlach, the Dryad, the Wood Woad, an Air Elemental, Us and Gale’s raven. They had no problem fitting in among the rest of the weirdos in the place.

 

Spoiler

I’ve already been scammed at least once. Let’s hope the 5000 gold statue is real.

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

54 minutes ago, InsaneCommander said:

I haven’t played much recently since Act III is lagging a lot. I'll probably have to reduce the graphics quality. Anyway, I reached Rivington and decided it was time to stop looking like trash to make sure they wouldn’t stop my party from entering the city. Got some new clothes for everyone and changed the view to camp clothes. They are still covered with blood though.

I’m picking all the sarcastic dialogue options about refugees when talking with the xenophobic citizens and it’s hilarious. Not for being sarcastic, but because my character is not that bright and genuinely understands everything wrong.

I also took Shadowheart, Gale and the kids to the circus. The latter group includes Karlach, the Dryad, the Wood Woad, an Air Elemental, Us and Gale’s raven. They had no problem fitting in among the rest of the weirdos in the place.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I’ve already been scammed at least once. Let’s hope the 5000 gold statue is real.

 

The statue is real, and before they fixed it you could use the spell Command: Drop to duplicate a weapon. Now it's just a nice statue.

[Gorth]

Split off from previous thread...

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/132426-bg3/

 

[MrBrown]

Not sure this game is good enough to deserve a second thread.

[MrBrown]

 

[HoonDing]

I can't be the only one who misread title as "butt kissing for goodness"

Which... is fitting

[InsaneCommander]

I met with another one of the big villains. She tried to take Scratch from me and I had to spend all of my Inspiration points to resolve things peacefully. But I'm actually considering reloading and making sure she never abuses another dog. Not to mention Scratch ran away after her and apparently this part is bugged and he cannot be summoned again.

And... one more npc is horny.

 

Spoiler

The Emperor. Who is next? Orin? Vlaakith? Ok, the last one is furious so it may not be an option.

Nice to have the option: “I just want a dreamless sleep for once.”

 

 

On 10/5/2023 at 4:26 PM, PK htiw klaw eriF said:

The statue is real, and before they fixed it you could use the spell Command: Drop to duplicate a weapon. Now it's just a nice statue.

 

Spoiler

It gives +1d4 bonus on attack rolls and saving throws.

 

[BruceVC]

https://dotesports.com/baldurs-gate/news/baldurs-gate-3-sales-numbers-how-many-copies-has-bg3-sold#:~:text=How many copies of Baldur's,stats acquired by Steamdb.info.

I just found this now  so  it may be old   news, BG3 has sold over 22 million copies just on Steam  !!!

That  far exceeds what I thought and its excellent news  for Larian because now  all their hard  work was worth it and it justifies  a BG4. As I always say the real factor in the success and  sustainability of any game are the sales numbers

And it also makes any  negative  sentiment that BG3 is **** and degenerate irrelevant and moot because most gamers clearly dont care. But total  sales so far could be over 30 million  

[kanisatha]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

https://dotesports.com/baldurs-gate/news/baldurs-gate-3-sales-numbers-how-many-copies-has-bg3-sold#:~:text=How many copies of Baldur's,stats acquired by Steamdb.info.

I just found this now  so  it may be old   news, BG3 has sold over 22 million copies just on Steam  !!!

That  far exceeds what I thought and its excellent news  for Larian because now  all their hard  work was worth it and it justifies  a BG4. As I always say the real factor in the success and  sustainability of any game are the sales numbers

And it also makes any  negative  sentiment that BG3 is **** and degenerate irrelevant and moot because most gamers clearly dont care. But total  sales so far could be over 30 million  

Sorry Bruce, but SteamDB estimates are total crap. The VG Insights estimate of 10-12 million is the FAR more reliable number.

[Wormerine]

2 hours ago, BruceVC said:

And it also makes any  negative  sentiment that BG3 is **** and degenerate irrelevant and moot because most gamers clearly dont care.

I don't why it would be moot. Game might sell, but it is still ****. If anything high sales would reinforce the narrative of BG3 shortcomings. Why it is impossible for a good game to sell well, it is also rather uncommon.

2 hours ago, BruceVC said:

That  far exceeds what I thought and its excellent news  for Larian because now  all their hard  work was worth it and it justifies  a BG4.

While that is a conclusion a publisher might take, and they would totally rush a half-baked BG4 to cash in (like Dragon Age2, after DA1), I am not sure if Larian would take that route. Before that making BG3 might have been an odd choice, instead of making D:OS2. And D&D and BG IP definitely brought attention to the project, I am doubtful that people who enjoyed the game, enjoyed it because it was D&D and Forgotten Realms.

If Larian were to make another super RPG (which according to Sven isn't going to happen) and would once again reuse D:OS2/BG3 formula one could argue that they should move to new IP to keeps things fresh. Sins are harder to forget 2nd time around, and I am sure all the new players that came to Larian would be less forgiving if they played the same game, with the same faults for a 2nd time.

The only take away I would make, is that cRPG can have mass appeal, if they have enough budget behind them. But thats nothing I didn't knew about, and I still doubt it is good enough return for money for other publishers go into this direction.

edit. I am being, of course, overly negative. BG3 is ok. Combat is passable, narrative is passable until late 3rd act. Visuals are impressive considering the scale, but lack in artistic intent and consistency. It's good enough time to warrant a playthrough, and a really good value for money. Your usual "good" AAA, a lot of flash, little substance: 3/5

Edited October 30, 2023 by Wormerine

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I don't think sales are an indicator of quality, most Bethesda games sell extremely well but they're half-baked piles of **** that crash every 15 minutes. Sales matter for a business perspective but on our end as players it seems weird to be obsessing over them, the experience you had playing a game isn't going to be impacted by how many other people bought it.

Unfortunately for BG3 enjoyers, it selling well isn't going to necessarily mean that you get more BG3s. As much as I'd like to see Sawyer's PoE3, a AAA Pathfinder game, a AAA Shadowrun, etc. I think "Star Trek with a crew that ****s" or "LotR with waifus" is as likely a beeg studio response to BG3, perhaps moreso. 

59 minutes ago, Wormerine said:

While that is a conclusion a publisher might take, and they would totally rush a half-baked BG4 to cash in (like Dragon Age2, after DA1), I am not sure if Larian would take that route. Before that making BG3 might have been an odd choice, instead of making D:OS2. And D&D and BG IP definitely brought attention to the project, I am doubtful that people who enjoyed the game, enjoyed it because it was D&D and Forgotten Realms.

I think we're going to see a BG4, whether by Larian or someone else. I'd hope that if Larian doesn't do it that we'd get something similar to Kotor 2 (but finished properly) or NWN2....MotB, but we won't know until it's out.

[BruceVC]

2 hours ago, Wormerine said:

I don't why it would be moot. Game might sell, but it is still ****. If anything high sales would reinforce the narrative of BG3 shortcomings. Why it is impossible for a good game to sell well, it is also rather uncommon.

While that is a conclusion a publisher might take, and they would totally rush a half-baked BG4 to cash in (like Dragon Age2, after DA1), I am not sure if Larian would take that route. Before that making BG3 might have been an odd choice, instead of making D:OS2. And D&D and BG IP definitely brought attention to the project, I am doubtful that people who enjoyed the game, enjoyed it because it was D&D and Forgotten Realms.

If Larian were to make another super RPG (which according to Sven isn't going to happen) and would once again reuse D:OS2/BG3 formula one could argue that they should move to new IP to keeps things fresh. Sins are harder to forget 2nd time around, and I am sure all the new players that came to Larian would be less forgiving if they played the same game, with the same faults for a 2nd time.

The only take away I would make, is that cRPG can have mass appeal, if they have enough budget behind them. But thats nothing I didn't knew about, and I still doubt it is good enough return for money for other publishers go into this direction.

edit. I am being, of course, overly negative. BG3 is ok. Combat is passable, narrative is passable until late 3rd act. Visuals are impressive considering the scale, but lack in artistic intent and consistency. It's good enough time to warrant a playthrough, and a really good value for money. Your usual "good" AAA, a lot of flash, little substance: 3/5

What  about a Ravenloft game, that  would be fun 

[Sven_]

5 hours ago, Wormerine said:

 

If Larian were to make another super RPG (which according to Sven isn't going to happen) and would once again reuse D:OS2/BG3 formula

[snip]

Whilst I can see how some went as far as calling BG3 a reskin, I still don't get it. The game has most of the DOS systems in place, yes. It also controls the same way, yes. But, for a start, I've just explored almost the entirety of the first map again, and didn'T fight once.

Whereas in DOS, it's really just a thinly veiled combat parcours. There's also less alternative solutions, alternative routes, and everything. Exploration in DOS1+2 is completely linear anyway, as enemies just a few notches  above your level are going to obliterate you (and all paths throughout the maps are gatekept and blocked by enemies. DOS1 in particular almost plays like a combat system demo in comparison. Whereas BG3 has evolved into an RPG "proper". It shares a lot of its ingridients and is built with the same tech. But it's a completely different recipe and meal -- and that goes even without anything D&D attached to it.

As of the game's success that obviously exceeded expectations from the go: There's not gonna be a wealth of triple A CRPGS now simply alone by the fact that there's like not even a handful of studios able to deliver such, let alone interested in doing it... It's more about a game like this getting exposure and people realizing they enjoy this kind of game. Kinda like these. What and whether an impact BG3 had can only be judged in the longer run. If it has one, if you ask me it would be a better one than any major Bioware release post Neverwinter Nights. Mass Effect players blowing the **** out of enemies Gears Of War-style in between a bunch of cutscenes weren't massively encouraged to look for D&Dish type of games or similar.

That sounds a bit sarcastic. But I'm not trying to talk about quality with all of this. Just the type of games being represented here. To this day, I'm really not much of a fan of Bioshock, which to me is pretty much "System Shock for dummys" and full of repetitive and average corridor shooter gameplay (despite everbody gushing over it). But there's not doubt that it played a role that Immersive Sims were revitalized a couple years later...  at least for a while. With even Eidos doing two decent Deus Ex games... and a decent System Shock remake I'd just finished about two weeks ago. Speaking about which, gamings truly last action hero, Arkane's founder Raf Colantonio digs this. Doesn't surprise me.
 

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Sven_

[Hawke64]

The key systems, the narrative style, and plot-points are somehow too similar to D:OS2 (also, most battles were possible to "cheese" there). If the worse aspects were improved (the game spent years in EA with them present), it would be preferable. Larian did decrease the amount of environmental features (everything is not on fire all the time), but there is still no pause, the inventory and party management are awful, the party members sound like someone's first PCs, the lore does not work well with D&D or BG1/2, the final choice between two obviously Evil NPCs, etc.

[HoonDing]

Abdel Adrian

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

11 minutes ago, Hawke64 said:

The key systems, the narrative style, and plot-points are somehow too similar to D:OS2 (also, most battles were possible to "cheese" there). If the worse aspects were improved (the game spent years in EA with them present), it would be preferable. Larian did decrease the amount of environmental features (everything is not on fire all the time), but there is still no pause, the inventory and party management are awful, the party members sound like someone's first PCs, the lore does not work well with D&D or BG1/2, the final choice between two obviously Evil NPCs, etc.

I definitely agree about the pause and inventory management, and I'd say that besides the lack of a day/night system those are my biggest complaints about the game. But WotC routinely changes the lore in a way that doesn't work well with previous dnd things so I'm not particularly bothered by Larian doing it here (it also doesn't help that Forgotten Realms kinda sucks). The final choice in BG3 is mostly bad for some spoiler reasons, but the TL;DR is that it's not that much different than the big choice in BG2.

Spoiler

The biggest problem I have with the binary endgame choice is that the negative consequences of it aren't there in the game.

If you don't really investigate The Emperor, everything he does and says comes across as genuine. You have to really look into his background (which means passing some hidden/passive checks I believe) and have some knowledge of recent Forgotten Realms lore to realize that he turned Duke Stelman into his thrall and was running an evil business syndicate for decades (centuries?) before he was captured, to say nothing of what he did to Ansur. If you miss this, and it is easy to miss, then the Emperor is exactly what he presents himself as, a mind flayer with free will who doesn't want to be under the Netherbrain and the game ends with him happily floating off to be a free mind flayer who definitely won't be doing shady business deals or mentally enslaving people. 

If you free Orpheus he transforms from the heir of a brutal empire to an honorable hero who will reform the evil Githyanki empire into something less evil. He went from wishing my bard was dead "YOU FORNICATED WITH A MIND FLAYER!" to calling us friends in like two conversations. I'm perfectly willing to accept that Orpheus is not a bad guy, or even clears the subterranean hurdle of being better than Vlaakith, but the game needs to do a better job of showing that than him being chill.

Basically the game needs to do a better job of fleshing out what both choices mean before you make it and it doesn't because they're both Act 3 issues and Act 3 is a bit of a cluster****. I hope that Larian does another enhanced/definite edition that fixes the last bit because that would make the game much better.

 

[Wormerine]

2 hours ago, Sven_ said:

Whilst I can see how some went as far as calling BG3 a reskin, I still don't get it.

That's not what I meant, and definitely didn't want to apply that Larian isn't putting a lot of effort and new stuff into each release. BG3 is bigger, larger, more sprawling and better, than D:OS2. But it was building on and itirating on designs and concepts made in D:OS1&2. I am not sure how far can Larian push the same design forward in speculative BG4. And as I don't think Larian is a narratively driven studio, I don't think "new adventure using same systems" is something they would find worth pursuing.

Edited October 30, 2023 by Wormerine

[Wormerine]