Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous, Part 5

[InsaneCommander]

Finished the arena stuff and Sosiel's quest. After reading about it, I decided to use Toy Box to save Trever. I don't plan on having him on my party (especially after seeing his "build") but I was curious about how he would interact with Sosiel and what he had to say. Since I'll definitely screw this quest on my next planned playthroughs (Lich and Trickster), this was the best moment to do this. And I wasn't even close to saving the guy, I even had sold his shield by mistake, since it looks like an ordinary one.

Now it's time to knock on Nocticula's door. There are no other quests available, so if she doesn't open the door, I'll have to find a way to kill even the non hostile npcs.

[Gorth]

I think I was still having the Trickster levels when Trever joined me... not sure why they would be mutually exclusive?

One island left to do of treasure islands (besides what looks like an end destination after the island). At this point, it feels a bit like a repetitive chore. Yes, a few interesting conversations do take place on the ship as you progress (I'll save the spoilery stuff). But the story is just... not captivating. More like taking condensing all the mini games of a crpg into a stand alone package and throw the good parts out? The loot parts have also been a bit underwhelming at this point, although to be fair I didn't keep track of how much gold I got from selling a tonne of +1, +2, +3 and towards the end a few +4 things. But at this point in the game (end of act v i assume) it feels a bit superfluous

I also conquered the last enemy tower quite a while ago, so if my army starts losing morale because I don't take anything, well tough luck, no fortifications left to take

 

[bugarup]

Why are you going to screw that quest?  Soz is harmless and goes along well with Liches and Tricksters both and it won't affect anything much if you give him his brother back. 
Didn't Smug Mug send you an invitation? She always did for me even before I mopped up all the quests. Maybe it's location sensitive, because she always caught me right before leaving her girlfriend's pad of lava an injustice. 

Edited November 17, 2022 by bugarup
Screw you, forum gremlins!

[uuuhhii]

last dlc of kingmaker have some interesting quest item description

is there any equivalent in this dungeon dlc

[Gorth]

*Groan*... a third map of islands in treasure islands to wade through. Having an internal debate whether to complete the DLC or play it as standalone (if possible) at some other time. Too much repetitive combat and too little story/motivation to keep it going. It's entirely down to whether I'm stubborn enough enough to continue (the DLC) or not.

[xzar_monty]

1 hour ago, Gorth said:

Too much repetitive combat and too little story/motivation to keep it going.

This, btw, is one of those things that I find very odd. Clearly, preferences vary, but I also have a hard time understanding why there has to be so much combat when the rewards for it are getting smaller and smaller and it doesn't further the story one bit.

The strangest combat situation I have ever seen was in PoE: they removed much of the XP gains for combat. Well, fair enough, I can appreciate that. But why, then, fill so many outdoor maps with enemy groups you essentially have to wade through? It was a terrible waste of time, made so much worse by the fact that there was no XP reward and almost no loot reward. Developers, I'm looking at you. (Luckily, this dreadful gaffe was not present in Deadfire.)

[InsaneCommander]

12 hours ago, Gorth said:

I think I was still having the Trickster levels when Trever joined me... not sure why they would be mutually exclusive?

 

11 hours ago, bugarup said:

Why are you going to screw that quest?  Soz is harmless and goes along well with Liches and Tricksters both and it won't affect anything much if you give him his brother back.

I already screwed it with my good character. My Lich will be a dedicated crusader, not really evil, but "the ends justify the means" kind of guy. He will probably paint Trever as a traitor for Sosiel, so it will not end well. And my Trickster will likely say random things...

[Gromnir]

spoiler:

Spoiler

there is a handful o' conversations 'tween the commander and sosiel 'bout trever pre-abyss. if you f-up one o' those dialogues by being too optimistic or perhaps suggesting that maybe you don't have enough info to decide what happened to trever, then sosiel and trever fail to reconcile.

the conversations you would need fix to repair sosiel's relationship with his brother is potential +60 hours remote, so fixing the "problem" may only be achieved on a replay, which is fine as am ok with consequences, but somehow the consequences is kinda improbable related to your dialogue choices, so the resolution quite possible feels wrong.

dunno. the quest didn't make much difference to us as am admitted only slight more invested in the wotr companions than we were regarding bg1 companions. am admitting there is for Gromnir a kinda knee-jerk displeasure in achieving an avoidable bad ending which were in no way foreseeable as potential wrong, but as long as sosiel stayed in the party and served his purpose, then we cared little for his pain.

truth is we treat the wotr companions as if they is the galley slaves in ben-hur even if we pretend to be friends with them.

row well and live, 41... or ember or sosiel or...

HA! Good Fun!

 

[InsaneCommander]

33 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

*60 hours*

Or 60 seconds, with Toy Box.

[Gromnir]

13 minutes ago, InsaneCommander said:

Or 60 seconds, with Toy Box.

that's the point. chances are many players would replay *add whatever unspecified span of time you deem appropriate* worth o' the game to fix their "mistake" with sosiel. is not a practical solution.

choice and consequences has little value if gamers think they got treated unfair by the developers and resort to a mod to fix the perceived problem. yeah, more than a few players will reflexive mod out any bad selection, but for crpgs am suspecting many players is gonna try and attempt to adhere to whatever is their personal notion o' fair, as meaningless as is such a concept in a single-player game. 

HA! Good Fun!

[InsaneCommander]

I'm fine with choices and consequences. I cheated this time for the reasons I stated above. Besides, this quest seems a little random.

In other cases I'm trusting my character's personality and accepting what happens. For example, I avoided spoilers for Arue's romance and Azata stuff. Even so I eventually read somewhere that there are different paths for the Azata path, depending on your choices. Not sure if I did anything wrong yet, but I'm happy so far. And for Arue, I saw a minor spoiler thread and discovered that I had to rest in some areas or I'd miss romance interactions. But apart from that, who knows what will happen.

[Gorth]

I know I want to play a demon at some point just to get a hot date with Nocticula (sp?)

But for now, I really just want to finish the blasted treasure islands (probably never to be visited again to be honest, unless the final chest of the DLC has some "must have" reward).

I know I've heard here that Lich may be overrated, but I think I would at least try a game starting down that path to just see how it plays out. That is, after my first game as legend here gets completed. Short term plan: Treasure islands and Iz. I suppose there is an act after act v, as I have quests in my log that are open, but will not fail if not completed in act v (which if there is any logic to it, means they will be doable in an act vi)

[bugarup]

Lich ain't overrated, especially if you like playing spellcasters, because Lich spells ignore spell resistance. There's also neat stuff like feat that lets you do attribute damage when the spell hits, so combine, say, rays or selective area damage spell with it and oh my sweet sweet schadenfreude, say, how do you like your own tricks being used against you, game? Not so smug now, eh?  And that's the reason I cannot stop making new Liches. 

[ShadySands]

Mechanically, the Lich is great but there were just some story things that I took some issue with.

Edited November 18, 2022 by ShadySands

[Gromnir]

compared to most feedback we has seen, am having a slight different pov on combined spellbook angels and lich as well as trickster-- am not a fan. we got issues with story for lich and trickster, and angel is kinda too predictable to be enjoyable, but we got a serious issue with the mechanics o' the aforementioned mythics. from our pov, busted strong is no better than busted weak. choosing merged angel or lich, as well as trickster, is functional shifting the difficulty slider one or more places leftwards. 

and yeah, all the mythics may be designed to be overwhelming stongk, but angel, lich and trickster gameplay becomes kinda mindless mid-late game, which robs the game o' enjoyment for us.

the problem is you cannot move the difficulty slider further to the right and make the game more fun for the angel, lich or trickster. on unfair, regardless o' your mythic path, there is a handful o' exploits and loopholes which you need indulge to progress. is a dreadful sameness to party composition and battles on unfair which we find soul numbing. 

that said, lich were also tough for us 'cause it were a bit too cackling and cartoony evhul and we were hoping for a pragmatic evhul option. 

however, is no question a merged spellbook lich is mighty powerful, so if you are looking for a build to roll-stomp all comers with little need to consider exploits or tactics when playing anything less than hard difficulty, then lich is gonna feel appropriately mythic indeed.

HA! Good Fun!

ps in the spirit o' full disclosure, we wanted to get through the inevitable excess dlc asap, so we did a merged spellbook angel run. we saw that particular dlc as a chore and the merged angel were an appropriate tool to complete the task. 

Edited November 18, 2022 by Gromnir

[Sven_]

I stopped playing this about a year ago (bought it upon release). Was I think about halfway through chapter 2. Played exclusively TB, mind, which contributed to my experience.

If there's one thing I'd change about Owlcat games is that they really really love their combat. None of WOTR was as bad as late-chapter Kingmaker. But I can still picture them going over all of their maps once finished, seeing empty spots, and placing paste&copy mobs there. Less (but more unique) would be so much more, it's unfunny. 

If their games had stats like the IE games or POE had, collecting the number of enemies slain, their numbers wouldn't be merely through the roof. They would be through the sky. (Nothing may ever come close to MM6 in that regard though). 

Will still continue playing at some point, mind. Enjoyed Kingmaker too (and enjoyed its initially more grounded narrative, WOTR is a power fantasy from the very start).

Edited November 18, 2022 by Sven_

[Gorth]

Ah, screw this. Iz it is...

Maybe I'll play the treasure islands dlc as a "stand alone" at some point. I did have one more mission, but it seems to be a "dud"

Being notoriously bad at names (the story of my life), I can't remember the quest name, but it's an officer that seems to have deserted to follow Sarkorian history leads. Problem is just, there is no trail to pick up...

Off to the next hot spot then.

[bugarup]

Yeah, that quest is busted, its location won't show up unless you talk to some throwaway merc dude in Act 3 and you have to go out of your way to find him. I didn't bother to do this quest even after I read how to get it proper.  

[Hawke64]

That quest, A Refuge from the Present, is a backer reward and involves an unavoidable turn-based battle with infinitely* respawning demons. Also it is a Fallout reference. Nothing is lost from skipping it.
*requires to interact with 3 statues, while the interaction icons are not visible clearly.

[Gromnir]

8 hours ago, Hawke64 said:

That quest, A Refuge from the Present, is a backer reward and involves an unavoidable turn-based battle with infinitely* respawning demons. Also it is a Fallout reference. Nothing is lost from skipping it.
*requires to interact with 3 statues, while the interaction icons are not visible clearly.

it's not a big reward, but IF you did the diplomacy thing with indrah in act 1, then with a successful completion o' the quest you are able to initiate a crusade project which results in all your generals acquiring a level o' master of maneuver. as such, this is a quest which is best done as early as possible in act v.

also, while has possible been fixed, if you looted enemy corpses before the end of combat, it were possible to generate a fair amount o' gold from this quest-- potential infinite amounts. if you wait to loot after combat, then bodies disappear and so do their gear, but this is one o' the few instances o' respawning enemies in the game and it is/were possible to manipulate the rewards by stacking bodies improbable high and taking their gear before they evaporated. 'course in act v is unlikely you are strapped for cash, so... 

functional, nothing is lost by skipping, but if you really want the extra master o' maneuver, and if you are funding your crusade projects by buying material points and the like, then in the unlikely event you are able to trigger this quest early in act v, then there are a few potential (and possible exploitive) rewards.

HA! Good Fun!

[Gorth]

Roaming around Iz. Spent the last while exploring a house. It seems like I was presented with a choice upon arrival. Curiosity got the better of me, so I went for knowledge first. Could care less about some old rag, so I went to her highhandedness next and gave her a piece of my mind and told her exactly where she could shove it. Stopped short of picking the "Attack" option, although I was sorely tempted. At this point, banner was gone. I wonder if I had gone to the banner first, maybe I could have saved the banner and the knowledge

[kanisatha]

So I've finally gotten around to playing WotR for the first time. Still in the middle of the Prologue but absolutely loving it so far. On track to be my all-time favorite cRPG. As expected I spent half a day just on creating my character.

[InsaneCommander]

1 hour ago, kanisatha said:

So I've finally gotten around to playing WotR for the first time. Still in the middle of the Prologue but absolutely loving it so far. On track to be my all-time favorite cRPG. As expected I spent half a day just on creating my character.

So, how is your character? Class, race, alignment?

In case you don't know, Camellia is a romance option.

 

I'm playing the game again and yesterday I spent a whole night talking to beggars.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

25 minutes ago, InsaneCommander said:

In case you don't know, Camellia is a romance option.

She is helpful, is she not?

[InsaneCommander]

4 hours ago, Make a contract with KP said:

She is helpful, is she not?