The All Things Political Topic - A politician needs the ability to foretell what is going to happen tomorrow, next week, next month, and next year. And to have the ability afterwards to explain why it didn’t happen

[BruceVC]

53 minutes ago, Chairchucker said:

There isn't an attempt to teach it, none of this is true, that's why you can't find a curriculum. It is a bogeyman made up by conservatives for them to do some hand wringing about how 'the left' or 'liberals' hate white people because they are daring to accurately teach (in uni though, not school) that historically, in the USA, minorities have been oppressed by white people.

 

'you cant ban something in a school if it doesnt exist in some form or another'

What are you smoking Bruce, of course you can. There is absolutely nothing that says, when making a rule against something, that it has to be something that is currently going on. Otherwise no new organisation would ever be able to make any rules until someone did the thing they wanted to ban. 'Gee willikers fellas, I'd really like to make murder illegal in this state, but it's newly formed state and no one's done any murders yet, so we'll just have to wait for the first one and then ban it.' See how silly that sounds? That's pretty much what you're proposing here.

You once said you support CRT being taught at schools, what were talking about if you support it? Because I assume you dont just support things that dont exist?

And then I will repeat what I mentioned several times, I have seen several interviews on CNN where teachers in different US school districts  openly say " we have been told we cant teach CRT and its unfair because we want to provide our students with an  inclusive view of history " (or something similar )

Here is a link from a teacher that acknowledges CRT teaching has been banned but has found a way to bypass it, again its strange how liberal teachers themselves are talking about how the curriculum has been banned considering how you say it doesnt exist 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10005353/Iowa-teacher-proudly-shares-circumvents-states-ban-CRT-encouraging-questions.html

But just to clarify something, since we dont have anyone who can produce a curriculum, not the same thing as saying it doesnt exist, my issue with it is around any teaching that tells kids that a country like the US was founded only on racism and inequality and the US  is country of structural racism. Thats false, the US was not founded or created only on racism and oppression and racism exists in the US but its not structural 

And why do I care about this type of false narrative in the US? Its because this spreads to other countries like the UK and SA and I dont agree that history should be selective or revisionist 

 

[BruceVC]

25 minutes ago, Gorth said:

The Soviet Union banned god from the classrooms. No problem.

Gorthfuscious !!!! Thats very controversial and funny 

EDIT : You also make a good point if you are atheist  or agnostic 

Edited July 16, 2022 by BruceVC

[Gorth]

44 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Gorthfuscious !!!! Thats very controversial and funny 

EDIT : You also make a good point if you are atheist  or agnostic 

Agnostic

[HoonDing]

"Its funny you mention Codex, some people on this forum have called me a racist, fascist or colonialist

Yet on Codex some people call me a led-belly, snowflake, degenerate, glowie liberal 

Im confused about my identity, what am I "

[Hurlshort]

Bruce and CRT.

[Malcador]

11 hours ago, BruceVC said:

And I have made this point several time, you cant ban something in a school if it doesnt exist in some form or another.  So there is no doubt it exists in the school level.

 

[Guard Dog]

As long as teachers give tests there will be prayer in school. As long as report cards and college entrance exams are a thing you won't be able to keep God out of education! 

There was a saying in the USMC: There are no atheists in combat!

[Gromnir]

16 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

As long as teachers give tests there will be prayer in school. As long as report cards and college entrance exams are a thing you won't be able to keep God out of education! 

There was a saying in the USMC: There are no atheists in combat!

sitting and waiting to take a first year civ pro final, am hearing a guy behind us murmuring same thing over and over.

i must not fear.
fear is the mind-killer.
fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
i will face my fear.
i will permit it to pass over me and through me.
and when it has gone past, i will turn the inner eye to see its path.
where the fear has gone there will be nothing. only i will remain.

at the time we thought it were kinda funny to hear a dude audibly repeating the litany against fear mantra before a final, but it so stuck with us we have been doing in similar situations ever since that day.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Guard Dog]

Hey my view on religion and belief can be summed up as "whatever get's you through the night". (I stole that from a Law & Order episode, Jack McCoy actually said that). If an appeal to Paul Maud'dib got him through Civil Procedure who am I to tell him he's wrong. 

There is one thing a KNOW about God, religion, Allah, Buddah, etc: we will all find out the truth one day. Hopefully not for a long time though. 

[rjshae]

2 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

There is one thing a KNOW about God, religion, Allah, Buddah, etc: we will all find out the truth one day. Hopefully not for a long time though. 

There's one thing I KNOW, and is that by the time you find out the truth, you will no longer be able to recognize it.

[Gfted1]

For religious folks, when you die, your "soul" retains your personality?

[BruceVC]

28 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

For religious folks, when you die, your "soul" retains your personality?

Good question, no  one can say for sure. I would assume so ?

[Hurlshort]

1 hour ago, Gfted1 said:

For religious folks, when you die, your "soul" retains your personality?

Are we ourselves when we dream?

[Pidesco]

I'm more interested in knowing if we retain our tastes and interests. Would that mean heaven for one guy would be painting warhammer miniatures? What about a heaven for furries? Or BDSM. Or people who just love creating RPG rulesets. Anyway how does pleasure and happiness work without dopamine? 

[Guest]

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

[BruceVC]

6 hours ago, Pidesco said:

I'm more interested in knowing if we retain our tastes and interests. Would that mean heaven for one guy would be painting warhammer miniatures? What about a heaven for furries? Or BDSM. Or people who just love creating RPG rulesets. Anyway how does pleasure and happiness work without dopamine? 

You guys are comparing a spirit\soul to a physical body. Its completely different and you cant make those comparisons

If you look at the suggestion of ghosts or what Hindus believe with reincarnation and the idea  of achieving Nirvana its all about a change of form, we already know energy is never destroyed and just changes its state. 

So there is a scientific  answer to death and religion but you cant ask questions from a physical perspective 

@rjshae may be right and at the time of death your state of mind will be different but it doesnt mean religion isn't true and we also know science provides us with lots of answers but lots of questions exist as well. Just something simple, whatas the smallest sub-atomic particle ...a Quark I think it is. But whats underneath that ? 

I dont think we can truly ignore the idea of divine creation if we dont have all the answers?

[Gorth]

Just now, BruceVC said:

@rjshae may be right and at the time of death your state of mind will be different but it doesnt mean religion isn't true and we also know science provides us with lots of answers but lots of questions exist as well. Just something simple, whatas the smallest sub-atomic particle ...a Quark I think it is. But whats underneath that ?

Wait for LHC II and they will tell you

 

As a thought experiment, think about a ruler. You know, good old ruler you used in the class room to measure distances and drawing straight lines on a piece of paper. The distance between the 1st and the 2nd centimeter can in theory be divided into an infinite amount of subdivisions. I.e. divide it in half, in quarters, eights, etc. Continue until you get an infinite number of subdivisions. That means, the distance between those two points on the ruler is infinitely long. But, the universe didn't end because an infinitely long ruler suddenly stuck its ends through the barriers of the known world. We just look at it from a distance, gloss over the details and decide that, the distance between the two points is probably somewhere around a single centimeter. Give or take an infinite number

Humans tend to do a bit of abstraction when it comes to comprehend things we can't comprehend. It also makes it easier to draw straight lines on a piece of paper without our heads exploding.

[BruceVC]

2 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Wait for LHC II and they will tell you

 

As a thought experiment, think about a ruler. You know, good old ruler you used in the class room to measure distances and drawing straight lines on a piece of paper. The distance between the 1st and the 2nd centimeter can in theory be divided into an infinite amount of subdivisions. I.e. divide it in half, in quarters, eights, etc. Continue until you get an infinite number of subdivisions. That means, the distance between those two points on the ruler is infinitely long. But, the universe didn't end because an infinitely long ruler suddenly stuck its ends through the barriers of the known world. We just look at it from a distance, gloss over the details and decide that, the distance between the two points is probably somewhere around a single centimeter. Give or take an infinite number

Humans tend to do a bit of abstraction when it comes to comprehend things we can't comprehend. It also makes it easier to draw straight lines on a piece of paper without our heads exploding.

Thats an interesting analogy around the ruler  but I am not sure its the same as sub-atomic particles

For example a 30 cm ruler is only 30 cm long and when you start dividing it in half it gets smaller and not bigger. So as you keep making it smaller you right it does become infinitely smaller which is why I ask what exists that is smaller than a quark?

Can science answer that?

[Gorth]

2 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Thats an interesting analogy around the ruler  but I am not sure its the same as sub-atomic particles

For example a 30 cm ruler is only 30 cm long and when you start dividing it in half it gets smaller and not bigger. So as you keep making it smaller you right it does become infinitely smaller which is why I ask what exists that is smaller than a quark?

Can science answer that?

Not yet. Doesn't mean it wont. That stuff usually first goes through a theoretical physicist face and then a practical test to try out theories. Science isn't instantaneous, but a long and often iterative process to get closer and closer to "the truth" (hard facts)

[BruceVC]

Just now, Gorth said:

Not yet. Doesn't mean it wont. That stuff usually first goes through a theoretical physicist face and then a practical test to try out theories. Science isn't instantaneous, but a long and often iterative process to get closer and closer to "the truth" (hard facts)

Agreed, science is making new discoveries all the time

But let you ask you an honest and important question, why are you an agnostic and why are you not religious? I mentioned most of my family are atheist  or agnostic so I am aware of different reasons for people not being religious or they use to be religious and then life experiences changed that. So its unlikely you will surprise me 

But why I am asking is sometimes non-believers of religion will focus on  parts of scripture that we know is not accurate, for example the earth is not 6000 years old. Its 6 billion years old and we also know Noah couldnt have had every animal in his ark because animals like kangaroos and the dodo didnt exist in the ME where Noah lived

But for me those stories are parables and are not the real point of the New Testament but going back to the question. Why arent you religious, is it because you dont see any definitive proof? Or do you see religion as hypocritical ?

 

 

 

[Gorth]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

But let you ask you an honest and important question, why are you an agnostic and why are you not religious?

I would ask the opposite question... why are you religious? It makes no sense to me. I don't believe things just because tell me so. I know the world is not flat, because I've physically traveled around the globe twice for example (literally), so nobody is going to sell me the flat earth idea. But not knowing the facts also means not eliminating the possibility of one or more divine beings have a laugh at our expense. Declaring no such beings can exist is for me just as preposterous as claiming there is a god (or other beings of a metaphysical nature).

The only time I feel like interfering in religious peoples lives however, is when they infringe on other peoples freedoms. I don't go knocking on church doors, trying to sell atheism to the priests or members of the congregation. But when religious leaders decides to restrict the rights of their members or worse, try to impose their limitations on me! I do speak up. Whether it's medieval dress codes, abortion issues, the right rape your daughters or telling me I can't drink wine with my dinner.

[Azdeus]

8 hours ago, Pidesco said:

What about a heaven for furries? Or BDSM.

[BruceVC]

7 minutes ago, Gorth said:

I would ask the opposite question... why are you religious? It makes no sense to me. I don't believe things just because tell me so. I know the world is not flat, because I've physically traveled around the globe twice for example (literally), so nobody is going to sell me the flat earth idea. But not knowing the facts also means not eliminating the possibility of one or more divine beings have a laugh at our expense. Declaring no such beings can exist is for me just as preposterous as claiming there is a god (or other beings of a metaphysical nature).

The only time I feel like interfering in religious peoples lives however, is when they infringe on other peoples freedoms. I don't go knocking on church doors, trying to sell atheism to the priests or members of the congregation. But when religious leaders decides to restrict the rights of their members or worse, try to impose their limitations on me! I do speak up. Whether it's medieval dress codes, abortion issues, the right rape your daughters or telling me I can't drink wine with my dinner.

For me personally there are  too many  unknown facts and data about the world and its mysteries to say "their is no such thing as a god " but I cant prove  and convince you that religion is definitely true 

But I have had some real lived experiences in my life that have made  me believe their is more to this world than just what science tells us 

And I agree with you 100% about the overreach of any religion telling people what they can or cant do around things like dress code or drinking wine.  Im not sure what religion allows you to rape your daughter ...thats sounds unlikely?

 

[Gorth]

4 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

 Im not sure what religion allows you to rape your daughter ...thats sounds unlikely?

Oh, take your pick from just about any Christian cult. It's like their whole reason d'etre is young ****, especially for the leaders.

[BruceVC]

4 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Oh, take your pick from just about any Christian cult. It's like their whole reason d'etre is young ****, especially for the leaders.

Yes but cults are normally an aberration of scripture and religious teachings, its the same as  Islamic extremism does not represent that Islam stands for?