Ukraine Conflict - Es ist nichts schrecklicher als eine tätige Unwissenheit

[Lexx]

Why is it so hard to find out if a big boat is still over water level.

Edited April 14, 2022 by Lexx

[Mamoulian War]

 

3 minutes ago, Lexx said:

Why is it so hard to find out if a big boat is still over water level.

From what I've read, the weather is not the best for assessing the situation correctly.

[majestic]

3 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

Oh, come on. There is no way this is even close to being true. Trump, Orban, etc.

I am not saying she was a good leader. But calling her the ultimate populist leader is senseless.

You're right, she once did what her conscience told her to do, and reneged on it later after "Wir schaffen das!" proved to be rather unpopular. How else would you define a populist then? Yes, of course she was a lot less blundering and pompous about it than Trump or Orban, and she also did not attempt to undermine Germany's democratic institutions, insofar that is a perfectly valid statement - but does that make her less of a populist in a more strict sense of the word (instead of the pejorative it has become, at least) just because she was not an autocratic (extreme) right-wing one but more soft-spoken, eloquent and politically centered?

Everything Merkel did had one, and one goal only: To get Merkel re-elected. From blustering against Greece and the other "PIGS", to actively making sure there's no party competition rising to meet her, to first wanting to extend nuclear power generation to suddenly deciding to not to the moment it became clear that voters are currently leaning heavily against nuclear power. The good thing about it was that not tolerating any popular competition inside her party made sure the CDU finally got where it belongs, now and for a long, long time hopefully. Far away from governing.

2 hours ago, Lexx said:

We call her Flinten-Uschi, because she was defense minister for no god damn reason (was family minister before that, maybe they thought it's pretty much the same thing?). Guess they pushed her to the EU just to get rid of her.

I am/was rather partial to Panzeruschi or Zensurla. 

Edited April 14, 2022 by majestic

[Chilloutman]

yeah people forgot for populism actually means. For example Putin is probably big populist (at least according to what media are saying regular russians actually want)

[xzar_monty]

23 minutes ago, majestic said:

Everything Merkel did had one, and one goal only: To get Merkel re-elected.

This is an accusation that you can throw at an awful lot of politicians. The difficulty with it is that proving it either way can be very difficult.

My main difficulty with an argument like this is quite simple. It assumes that the person in question (i.e. Merkel, here) is very cynical, while ignoring the fact that this argument is itself even more cynical, and it also presupposes knowledge of other people's deepest motives, although the person who puts forth this argument clearly cannot possess such knowledge.

I reiterate that I don't regard Merkel as a good ruler.

[xzar_monty]

Hmm. Shoigu has had a "massive heart attack", according to various not-too-dependable sources. Waiting for confirmation on this.

[Malcador]

8 hours ago, Lexx said:

Dunno, after reading on reddit for a while it sure seems a lot like it. Of course there is the occasional defender, but they seem more like germans to me, which imo doesn't really help it.

Well there, that's your problem. Reddit's user base are full of easily excitable and stupid zealots, they'll see a post by some Ukrainian saying Germany isn't doing the utmost and then will parrot "Germany = BAD". 

Edited April 14, 2022 by Malcador

[xzar_monty]

4 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Well there, that's your problem. Reddit's user base are full of easily excitable and stupid zealots, they'll see a post by some Ukrainian saying Germany isn't doing the utmost and then "Germany = BAD". 

Nearly everything that is public on the internet suffers from the same flawed perspective: those with nothing to say and those with their emotions running highest are the ones most likely to put forth their ideas. So the sample is absolutely not representative.

The internet was broken in September 1993 and never recovered. Those who were around before that time will remember the extent of the change. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September

[Malcador]

8 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

The internet was broken in September 1993 and never recovered. Those who were around before that time will remember the extent of the change. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September

Pretentious old men, playing at running the world.

[BruceVC]

19 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

Nearly everything that is public on the internet suffers from the same flawed perspective: those with nothing to say and those with their emotions running highest are the ones most likely to put forth their ideas. So the sample is absolutely not representative.

The internet was broken in September 1993 and never recovered. Those who were around before that time will remember the extent of the change. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September

I cant say I was using  the Internet back then, SA was about to have its first Democratic  election in 1994 and that was more significant and impactful to us

I had never heard of the term Eternal September until now, interesting link. All I can say is Im eternally grateful that access and benefits of the Internet became mainstream.

Its the greatest source  of available information the world has ever known and it  would seem almost criminal to deny mankind that information?

Its not broken, its constantly evolving and getting better. Now we have the potential of visits to  different Metaverses ..the ULTIMATE progression of online gaming, I am really excited for the future. I can only imagine an Elder Scrolls or Forgotten Realms Metaverse 

 

[xzar_monty]

39 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Pretentious old men, playing at running the world.

Ha! For such an (apparently) young person you seem remarkably and consistenly cynical in the attitude displayed in your posts. What has made you so cold-hearted?

@BruceVC: It's not broken, you're quite right. I was mostly joking. But the change was huge at the time. It was entirely logical, too: before that time, the net was mainly used by people with and in higher education, but when all of that suddenly changed, naturally the tone changed, too. In a similar way, the tone of discussion among, say, doctors, lawyers or anthropologists would change drastically if a small group of such people was suddenly overwhelmed by a huge number of complete laymen who all wanted to participate in the discussion even though they hardly knew the basics. All viewpoints are decidedly not equal.

[kanisatha]

Here's great coverage about the Moskva:

https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/04/meet-the-moskva-how-ukraine-nearly-sank-russias-black-sea-flagship/

[213374U]

10 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

54 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Pretentious old men, playing at running the world.

Ha! For such an (apparently) young person you seem remarkably and consistenly cynical in the attitude displayed in your posts. What has made you so cold-hearted?

I'm sure it wasn't a computer game about a convoluted conspiracy to install a shadow world government by means of mass surveillance, manufactured conflict, tax codes and a deadly epidemic...

[Malcador]

10 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

Ha! For such an (apparently) young person you seem remarkably and consistenly cynical in the attitude displayed in your posts. What has made you so cold-hearted?

Well that was a Deus Ex quote As for why I'm so cynical and cold hearted, too many video games as a child no doubt.

[BruceVC]

37 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Well that was a Deus Ex quote As for why I'm so cynical and cold hearted, too many video games as a child no doubt.

Malc in future please use "  " , or something similar,  when you use lines  from movies or games

Its hard to know when its your words or a quote and  sometimes you quote interesting things but they can be misunderstood 

[xzar_monty]

1 hour ago, kanisatha said:

Here's great coverage about the Moskva:

https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/04/meet-the-moskva-how-ukraine-nearly-sank-russias-black-sea-flagship/

Anyone reading that article might want to check the reader comments at the end of it. The character "Alex" appears to be a perfect example of a Russian troll. I think it's both fascinating and horrifying to consider that there are these troll factories in Russia, i.e. establishments whose only purpose is to spread misinformation and sow discord on social media. I agree it's a fairly clever plan, but the worldview it's built upon is one I'd never want to share. (Like, why spend your working hours doing something disruptive when you might as well work in the other direction?)

https://www.rferl.org/a/russian-troll-factory-hacking/31076160.html

PS. The ship appears not to have sunk, even according to Pentagon. Doesn't mean it's useful to anyone anymore, though. Also, apparently no more info on Shoigu's reputed heart attack.

[xzar_monty]

Unconfirmed, very recently in: apparently the Russian military has been attacked in some manner in Azerbaijan. Interesting to see how this one develops, if in any way at all.

A military expert in my country recently pointed out that given how badly Russia is doing in the war, it would be interesting for anyone so inclined to go through all the countires neighboring Russia and consider the recent relations of those countries with Russia. Tensions may be mounting in several spots. Georgia, for instance.

[pmp10]

9 hours ago, Mamoulian War said:

We do care. Only in Vysegrad Countries and Romania are more than 4.5 millions of them. Even my incompetent government is pumping a lot of money to volunteers and companies who help the refugees with accommodation and work.

It's not like there was much choice due to sheer scale of movement.
Migrants and refugees make for a great topic for politicians as long as they don't come in the millions.

Everyone knows eastern Europe can't offer them great conditions to live either.
We will see exactly how much the west cares when the subject of money to support them comes about.

[Chilloutman]

1 minute ago, pmp10 said:

It's not like there was much choice due to sheer scale of movement.
Migrants and refugees make for a great topic for politicians as long as they don't come in the millions.

Everyone knows eastern Europe can't offer them great conditions to live either.
We will see exactly how much the west cares when the subject of money to support them comes about.

What? do you think we live in huts or what? xD

[Gfted1]

^Admit it, youre pedaling a bamboo unicycle right now to power your PC.  

[xzar_monty]

14 minutes ago, pmp10 said:

Everyone knows eastern Europe can't offer them great conditions to live either.

Are you speaking from Beverly Hills, Monaco or Dubai? If not, are you simply clueless? That statement sounded like it was not made by the most luminescent star of the intellectual Orion.

[pmp10]

10 minutes ago, Chilloutman said:

What? do you think we live in huts or what? xD

It's not only about our housing (but that is an factor - if you thought it unaffordable just wait a year) but services.
For example waiting times for surgery in Poland can now be measured in years. 
Everything in our societies that was mediocrely handled (and conveniently swept under the rug by COIVD) from education, thru health-care to energy transition will now come under serious stress. 

2 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

Are you speaking from Beverly Hills, Monaco or Dubai? If not, are you simply clueless? That statement sounded like it was not made by the most luminescent star of the intellectual Orion.

Central Poland.

[Chilloutman]

can't they see the irony of it?

 

 

[BruceVC]

35 minutes ago, pmp10 said:

It's not like there was much choice due to sheer scale of movement.
Migrants and refugees make for a great topic for politicians as long as they don't come in the millions.

Everyone knows eastern Europe can't offer them great conditions to live either.
We will see exactly how much the west cares when the subject of money to support them comes about.

 But guys I dont understand this strange criticism similar to " as long  as they dont come in millions " or "  how much the west cares when the subject of money to support them comes about "

Their is no country in the world, including the US, that can just absorb and fund millions of immigrants permanently in 2 month...its not possible and its not realistic 

The Ukrainian refugees are being given temporary shelter and places to live so they not  killed during Putins War

Most of the refugees obviously will go home and they want to go home  once its safe. I am not sure why you would criticize the EU response when its clearly the right thing to do considering the proximity of Ukraine to the EU and the reality of what happens anyway during a war and or invasion when one country is attacked

Have you see how many Syrian refugees live in these safe but appalling refugee camps in countries on the border of Syria? Take a look at these conditions and compare that to the appreciated response from the EU

https://www.voanews.com/a/middle-east_syrian-refugees-border-camp-face-humanitarian-crisis/6172627.html

I can understand your frustration but the EU didnt create this refugee crisis, its important we dont lose sight of that 

[BruceVC]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/european-gas-prices-decline-ahead-090535297.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

EU gas prices are down, hopefully they maintain this low level