The All Things Political Topic - As a Bright Lord bears Beacons of flame.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

4 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

I don't have much of a problem with the job the Biden administration is doing in of itself (i.e. when it's not being held hostage to the two feckless senators from Arizona and West Virginia, though I always knew that the latter was going to be a serious problem from the get-go but accepted that it was certainly much better than handing Senate control over to Mitch McConnell), but the party itself as a whole has done pretty much the complete and utter opposite to inspire their voters to...well, vote for them. These results are sadly not much of a surprise - it seems likely Democrats will lose control of both the House and the Senate in 2022 unless they radically change course, and there's zero reason to expect them to, so...

I think on some level the Dems want to lose. Like the Republicans are busy stacking the deck to solidify power and the Democrats are...banking on magic black women to zerg rush voters to the polls.

14 minutes ago, Malcador said:

US Dems having ultra leftist views is funny.

I wish they were as badass as some of these dip****s think. Biden forcing god fearing patriots to watch sissyfication crt propaganda and go on HRT would be hilarious.

[Malcador]

Mandatory CRT will make the country stronger, those things are ****ing heavy.

[rjshae]

4 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

I don't have much of a problem with the job the Biden administration is doing in of itself (i.e. when it's not being held hostage to the two feckless senators from Arizona and West Virginia, though I always knew that the latter was going to be a serious problem from the get-go but accepted that it was certainly much better than handing Senate control over to Mitch McConnell), but the party itself as a whole has done pretty much the complete and utter opposite to inspire their voters to...well, vote for them. These results are sadly not much of a surprise - it seems likely Democrats will lose control of both the House and the Senate in 2022 unless they radically change course, and there's zero reason to expect them to, so...

This has become how national politics operate in the US now; the party that gains control has a year to implement their more extreme agenda elements, after which they will lose control and just try to hang on their gains. I think this is just expected.

As for being feckless, I think the senators are representing the political views of their voters. That's not feckless; that's why they were elected. Both Arizona and West Virginia are right-leaning states.

[ShadySands]

1 hour ago, rjshae said:

As for being feckless, I think the senators are representing the political views of their voters. That's not feckless; that's why they were elected. Both Arizona and West Virginia are right-leaning states.

I can't speak to Manchin in WV but in AZ Sinema is losing popularity rapidly with these stunts.

[pmp10]

On 11/1/2021 at 8:58 PM, Darkpriest said:

What's even more ironic is that the two-week summit is happening under the shadow of the UK's own energy crisis. Which means that those who are in a position to try and cut greenhouse gasses are simply in too difficult a situation to try and fix it now. (hence Putin's decision to skip it)

Then maybe it should be looked upon as an opportunity?
They missed the chance to let airlines go under during the pandemic, but now is a great time to allow petrol and gas prices to rise. 

if not they could at least spare us more lectures and spectacles.

[Zoraptor]

Can't do that though. It's one of the few occasions when economics and practicality are in direct sync: everything is dependent on cheap fuel, everything. The flow on effects of rising fuel costs increase the costs of everything, and make the JIT models that are already creaking from the pandemic even more shaky. There's literally no point going to electric cars running on electricity generated from coal or natural gas, and that's what the majority of the world would be shifting to, but in any case you cannot build electric cars fast enough and especially you cannot build electric ships or electric trucks in volume nor at anywhere near the level of convenience that is absolutely required by the economic model.

So instead you focus on moronic things like methane. Which is the practical equivalent of deciding that water vapour is an even worse greenhouse gas than methane, ergo we should all run dehumidifiers to save the planet and tea and coffee should be taxed heavily. Indeed, the main reason methane is picked is for political reasons, since it's a distance neutral measure for agricultural goods that allows subsidies to continue. A cow eating corn grown on ex Brazilian rainforest in France produces the same methane as a cow that is pasture fed year around, but one also produces its own weight in CO2 from transport costs from feeding it in a barn 4 months of the year. In both cases the methane produced will not be methane in a matter of months. Complete and utter virtue signalling, and designed to shift the blame onto those who are not the problem, eg rice as staple countries. Rice produces vast amounts of methane due to growing in water, but, crucially, that's all carbon cycle methane. Starts as CO2, goes to plant material, rots to methane, goes back to CO2. No net effect. Still, we can then blame China and India for the problem and wash our exquisitely environmentally safe hands...

You can tell how stupid a focus on methane is because it's being pushed by Germany's free advertisement for leaving the EU, von der Leyen.

[Gorth]

As for who the biggest offenders are... (being pre-brexit numbers, the UK is included in the EU figures)

While Australia doesn't produce enough atmospheric garbage to figure on a top 5 of overall emissions, I do seem to remember the per capita figure is obscenely high...

Oh yeah, and a federal right wing government that is trying to kill off the renewable energy sector, get rid of electric vehicles and hands out permits for drilling and digging for coal and gas like there was no tomorrow. Ironically, some day there might not be a tomorrow exactly because of that

I'm too old to care. Survived the cold war. Need some global warming to stay warm these days...

 

[Gromnir]

20 hours ago, Darkpriest said:

Seems @Guard Dogwill be a happy man in 2022

https://results.decisiondeskhq.com/

Seems like dems will suffer a lot for the ultra leftist views like CRT and other crap like that, plus perception on Biden seems to be worse and worse. If the inflation will stay high, dems will be in a run for losing two chambers and be left only with president. 

the imaginary crt hobgoblin is why Gromnir, who overwhelming voted republican for decades, will not be doing so anytime soon. all the republican party current offers is gaslighting and the politics o' grievance. fear o' minorities. fear of foreigners. fear o' bernie and obama. votes were stolen, save when and where republicans win. socialism is evil, except and unless you are one o' the many us farmers who has faced bankruptcy the past few years. etc.

crt, btw, is one o' those douglas adams' "42" theories. not gonna find us championing crt per se. for those who aren't aware, a bunch o' lawyers came up with a theory which explains the totality o' systemic US racism and called it crt. is graduate level curriculum which is simultaneous having its greatest shortcoming being the tendency to oversimplify and overgeneralize, but it has value 'cause it forces readers/students to ask questions they may not have previous considered.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/newsbusters-highlights-medias-crt-lies

is an example o' the manufactured outrage. 

what is actual examples o' crt being taught in public schools? a single line from a book on a recommended reading list for educators? hey @Hurlsnot, how many books is on your recommended reading list provided by your school district? am not gonna ask you to be honest 'bout how many you actual has read entire much less used in daily lesson planning.

what else? fox, rather gauche, links to another fox article which includes the following:

"Additionally, superintendent memo 050-19 can be found on the site from February 2019 promoting both Critical Race Theory and the idea of "white fragility.""

no.

we read the memo. you may do so as well. is no promotion o' white fragility and crt save to note

"Dr. Lane’s February Reading List
I have received several inquiries and requests for the latest literature that examines the issues associated with racial inequities in education.  Below are several pieces that I and other members of the VDOE staff are reading this month based on recommendations that we have received. "

one o' the book titles is literal, white fragility, by robin diangelo. another book on the list is foundations of critical race theory in education.

so, not promoting and not advocating making such part o' virginia public school curriculum, but rather identifying that Doctor lane, and other educators, is reading books 'bout such topics. is not even a recommended reading list but rather a recognition o' what educators is current reading. 

couldn't help but flashback to general milley

given the current polarization in the US, am looking for insights into causes. got a scholarly work which claims to explain it ALL is making us suspicious o' value, but is not making us afraid or intolerant.

as to the supposed virgina department of education presentation promoting crt...

Legal Implications of School
Discipline: Street “CRED” (Culturally Responsive and Equitable Discipline)

(unrelated editorializing: am not a fan o' powerpoint slide presentations)

https://www.doe.virginia.gov/support/virginia_tiered_system_supports/resources/2015_fall_institute/Legal_implications_of_discipline.pdf

one slide o' 30 from a university o' south florida professor talking 'bout alternatives to suspension... and again, is not specific and/or explicit being taught to students. the material is for educators to consider. 

somehow dp, the washington examiner, breitbart, fox and the the great majority o' the 2021 US republican party has cherry picked the most random and unconvincing "evidence" and concocted more grievance outta whole cloth. crt? serious? is it that those damned libs is once again trying to blame white people for all o' america's problems? is it the ghost o' 1920-1930s era nativism rising from the grave to posses rust belt and southern republicans?

the manufactured rage over crt is precise why we won't be voting republican anytime soon.

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Gromnir

[Guard Dog]

CRT, where is is actually being taught, seems to be whatever the person talking about it at the time wants it to be. A boogeyman, a nothing burger, or somewhere in between. Even objectively speaking two different teachers in the same school are not going to apply it in the same way. Objectively speaking some of the things it's supposed to teach (with the caveat that I've never set foot in a classroom where it WAS being taught and only know what's in the newspaper about it. See previous comment) seem pretty wrongheaded but, whatever. I've decided I don't know (or care) enough about it to talk about it. 

If you ask me stupid s--t like this is far more damaging to education than whatever everyone thinks CRT is. The notion that insisting math problems be solved with the right answer, or that insisting on students understanding the logical process for math problem solving is somehow racist is both stupid AND damaging. Now that said there is certainly room for improvement in math instruction. In my own experience I was taught one method of solving most problems. And it was the same method that had been taught for decades. I read an article recently about a Geometry teacher in Cincinnati working in a largely minority school that taught her class transformations by having them design apartment layouts. The kids were having trouble grasping the concept so she used a real world example and they understood it. I think that is brilliant. There is no "wrong" way to get a correct answer. But it is VERY wrong not to insist on getting to the right answer. 

If you can't solve algebra and geometry problems you are not going to understand trig. If you can't wrap your head around trig you will never grasp calculus. Without that STEM is closed off to you. 

[BruceVC]

5 hours ago, Gromnir said:

the imaginary crt hobgoblin is why Gromnir, who overwhelming voted republican for decades, will not be doing so anytime soon. all the republican party current offers is gaslighting and the politics o' grievance. fear o' minorities. fear of foreigners. fear o' bernie and obama. votes were stolen, save when and where republicans win. socialism is evil, except and unless you are one o' the many us farmers who has faced bankruptcy the past few years. etc.

crt, btw, is one o' those douglas adams' "42" theories. not gonna find us championing crt per se. for those who aren't aware, a bunch o' lawyers came up with a theory which explains the totality o' systemic US racism and called it crt. is graduate level curriculum which is simultaneous having its greatest shortcoming being the tendency to oversimplify and overgeneralize, but it has value 'cause it forces readers/students to ask questions they may not have previous considered.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/newsbusters-highlights-medias-crt-lies

is an example o' the manufactured outrage. 

what is actual examples o' crt being taught in public schools? a single line from a book on a recommended reading list for educators? hey @Hurlsnot, how many books is on your recommended reading list provided by your school district? am not gonna ask you to be honest 'bout how many you actual has read entire much less used in daily lesson planning.

what else? fox, rather gauche, links to another fox article which includes the following:

"Additionally, superintendent memo 050-19 can be found on the site from February 2019 promoting both Critical Race Theory and the idea of "white fragility.""

no.

we read the memo. you may do so as well. is no promotion o' white fragility and crt save to note

"Dr. Lane’s February Reading List
I have received several inquiries and requests for the latest literature that examines the issues associated with racial inequities in education.  Below are several pieces that I and other members of the VDOE staff are reading this month based on recommendations that we have received. "

one o' the book titles is literal, white fragility, by robin diangelo. another book on the list is foundations of critical race theory in education.

so, not promoting and not advocating making such part o' virginia public school curriculum, but rather identifying that Doctor lane, and other educators, is reading books 'bout such topics. is not even a recommended reading list but rather a recognition o' what educators is current reading. 

couldn't help but flashback to general milley

given the current polarization in the US, am looking for insights into causes. got a scholarly work which claims to explain it ALL is making us suspicious o' value, but is not making us afraid or intolerant.

as to the supposed virgina department of education presentation promoting crt...

Legal Implications of School
Discipline: Street “CRED” (Culturally Responsive and Equitable Discipline)

(unrelated editorializing: am not a fan o' powerpoint slide presentations)

https://www.doe.virginia.gov/support/virginia_tiered_system_supports/resources/2015_fall_institute/Legal_implications_of_discipline.pdf

one slide o' 30 from a university o' south florida professor talking 'bout alternatives to suspension... and again, is not specific and/or explicit being taught to students. the material is for educators to consider. 

somehow dp, the washington examiner, breitbart, fox and the the great majority o' the 2021 US republican party has cherry picked the most random and unconvincing "evidence" and concocted more grievance outta whole cloth. crt? serious? is it that those damned libs is once again trying to blame white people for all o' america's problems? is it the ghost o' 1920-1930s era nativism rising from the grave to posses rust belt and southern republicans?

the manufactured rage over crt is precise why we won't be voting republican anytime soon.

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/11/02/politics/virginia-election-results/index.html

The Republican victory in Virginia is an excellent blueprint going forward that the Democrats need to address

Youngkin ran a good campaign where he appealed  to the Trump base but he didnt align with Trump directly, for example he had no photos with him and Trump

He ran on bread and butter issues and things like education and CRT did play a part but indirectly, for example when McAuliffe said " parents shouldnt tell teachers what is taught in schools " this was raised by Youngkin as " so the Democrats dont think parents have a say in the education of their kids " 

So culture issues like " white fragility " and " CRT" you and others can dismiss as non-issues but they do matter and are used to frame other issues which clearly matter to the voters

And also the Democrat mayor victory in  NYC was also about not defunding the police and the entire flawed idea of disbanding the police in Minneapolis aslo failed. So again  these ideas from the Democrats clearly do matter to the actual voters 

https://news.yahoo.com/minneapolis-voters-reject-plan-disband-020729281.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

 

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Guard Dog said:

CRT, where is is actually being taught, seems to be whatever the person talking about it at the time wants it to be. A boogeyman, a nothing burger, or somewhere in between. Even objectively speaking two different teachers in the same school are not going to apply it in the same way. Objectively speaking some of the things it's supposed to teach (with the caveat that I've never set foot in a classroom where it WAS being taught and only know what's in the newspaper about it. See previous comment) seem pretty wrongheaded but, whatever. I've decided I don't know (or care) enough about it to talk about it. 

If you ask me stupid s--t like this is far more damaging to education than whatever everyone thinks CRT is. The notion that insisting math problems be solved with the right answer, or that insisting on students understanding the logical process for math problem solving is somehow racist is both stupid AND damaging. Now that said there is certainly room for improvement in math instruction. In my own experience I was taught one method of solving most problems. And it was the same method that had been taught for decades. I read an article recently about a Geometry teacher in Cincinnati working in a largely minority school that taught her class transformations by having them design apartment layouts. The kids were having trouble grasping the concept so she used a real world example and they understood it. I think that is brilliant. There is no "wrong" way to get a correct answer. But it is VERY wrong not to insist on getting to the right answer. 

If you can't solve algebra and geometry problems you are not going to understand trig. If you can't wrap your head around trig you will never grasp calculus. Without that STEM is closed off to you. 

I have yet to find one accurate example of what CRT is supposed to be about, thats another issue with it apart from the general theme that it is revisionist, biased and inaccurate. Try to find one school syllabus that has it as a subject and at least we can understand it 

But its not fear mongering to be concerned about  it because their are people on the left who push it and their are whole websites dedicated to it 

[BruceVC]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/03/world/australia/missing-cleo-smith.html

@Gorth

A really good news story from Oz and she is as cute as button 

 

[Gorth]

50 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/03/world/australia/missing-cleo-smith.html

@Gorth

A really good news story from Oz and she is as cute as button 

 

A happy outcome indeed, but... I'm sure there is stuff still to be worked out around what was behind her disappearance

[Elerond]

47 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

I have yet to find one accurate example of what CRT is supposed to be about, thats another issue with it apart from the general theme that it is revisionist, biased and inaccurate. Try to find one school syllabus that has it as a subject and at least we can understand it 

But its not fear mongering to be concerned about  it because their are people on the left who push it and their are whole websites dedicated to it 

Roy L. Brooks defined critical race theory in 1994 as "a collection of critical stances against the existing legal order from a race-based point of view". More specifically, race is a social construct and racism is neither an individual bias nor prejudice, but rather embedded in the legal system and supplemented with policies and procedures.

Richard Delgado, a co-founder of the theory, defined it in 2017 as "a collection of activists and scholars interested in studying and transforming the relationship among race, racism, and power".

It is meant to be high concept for anthropological studies about legal system from perspective of its different impacts to different races

[BruceVC]

48 minutes ago, Elerond said:

Roy L. Brooks defined critical race theory in 1994 as "a collection of critical stances against the existing legal order from a race-based point of view". More specifically, race is a social construct and racism is neither an individual bias nor prejudice, but rather embedded in the legal system and supplemented with policies and procedures.

Richard Delgado, a co-founder of the theory, defined it in 2017 as "a collection of activists and scholars interested in studying and transforming the relationship among race, racism, and power".

It is meant to be high concept for anthropological studies about legal system from perspective of its different impacts to different races

Thanks, so how should this be taught schools? What is an example of a syllabus that has decided to teach CRT so we can study it and see if we agree with it. For example History that is currently taught at all schools in most of our countries has subjects and you can what kids are being taught 

So right now your definition is broad and doesnt mean much to me when it comes to what will be actually taught at schools, for example what exactly does " a collection of activists and scholars interested in studying and transforming the relationship among race, racism, and power"

That is the one of the main issues I have with it as subject, how exactly do you define it when it comes to anyone who supports teaching it at schools?

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Gorth said:

A happy outcome indeed, but... I'm sure there is stuff still to be worked out around what was behind her disappearance

Yes I agree, the suspect detained is not a registered sex offender but was he? And why did he kidnap her ?

[Amentep]

3 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

There is no "wrong" way to get a correct answer. But it is VERY wrong not to insist on getting to the right answer. 

There actually are wrong ways to get a correct answer, they usually involve faulty logic and faulty operations that happen to cancel themselves out and give the correct answer for the wrong reasons.

I used to tutor math a long, long time ago (insert chuckles from anyone whose seen my math blunders here) and one of the frustrating things as a tutor was trying to teach a student the teachers way to do something when there were logically equivalent other ways to solve the problem but didn't fit the 'format' the teacher wanted students to use.

[BruceVC]

19 hours ago, ShadySands said:

I can't speak to Manchin in WV but in AZ Sinema is losing popularity rapidly with these stunts.

Maybe or you could argue that the progressive Democrats refusing to be reasonable about the huge stimulus and other bills that Manchin and Sinema objected to are  actually the problem because they intransigent 

Objecting to these bills in the initial form doesn't make you a " right wing " Democrat, it could be prudent ? And the opinion of Manchin matter in final votes in the Senate because of the small majority the Democrats have ?

[Guard Dog]

30 minutes ago, Amentep said:

There actually are wrong ways to get a correct answer, they usually involve faulty logic and faulty operations that happen to cancel themselves out and give the correct answer for the wrong reasons.

I used to tutor math a long, long time ago (insert chuckles from anyone whose seen my math blunders here) and one of the frustrating things as a tutor was trying to teach a student the teachers way to do something when there were logically equivalent other ways to solve the problem but didn't fit the 'format' the teacher wanted students to use.

That is a good point. I should’ve said there is no wrong way to get the right answer all of the time. A flawed process will not allow you to consistently solve problems. Even if it does sometimes.

[Elerond]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

Thanks, so how should this be taught schools?

same way as you tech other subjects about culture and human behavior like history, psychology, social psychology, religion and philosophy.

You teach what people have written about subject, you teach support and criticism those people have got and let students come up with understanding with subject and make their own conclusion with what you have taught them. 

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Elerond said:

same way as you tech other subjects about culture and human behavior like history, psychology, social psychology, religion and philosophy.

You teach what people have written about subject, you teach support and criticism those people have got and let students come up with understanding with subject and make their own conclusion with what you have taught them. 

Yes but what are the examples right now of the actual syllabus, what are  the specific subjects that CRT is about?

A syllabus has an actual content so what are examples that you can give that are similar to all other subjects that exist in  all schools of every other subject in the world?

That is the problem with CRT, you wont find it defined ? 

[rjshae]

There are other ways to look at the global emissions of greenhouse gases. The US is the second largest contributor on a per capita basis, after Qatar. The US has been by far the largest total emitter of greenhouse gases, at 28.8%, while China is at 9%.

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

Yes but what are the examples right now of the actual syllabus, what are  the specific subjects that CRT is about?

A syllabus has an actual content so what are examples that you can give that are similar to all other subjects that exist in  all schools of every other subject in the world?

That is the problem with CRT, you wont find it defined ? 

is not hard to find a syllabus.

https://blogs.brown.edu/amst-2220j-s01-2017-fall/syllabus/

is also taught at harvard law school, which is not surprising as were invented by harvard law school lawyers with intention of teaching future harvard lawyers to take a different perspective and look critical at systemic racism.

crt is not being taught to public school students in virginia. kudos if it were 'cause the syllabi you were asking for reveal this is material which requires a level o' analysis and evaluation way beyond what we expect from most high school and middle schoolers. admitted, tell a bunch o' virginia voters that crt ain't even part o' typical curriculum for undergrads at college but is maybe a graduate seminar at university o' virgina or william and mary would probable still anger a small number o' voters, but is doubtful such would become an election issue worth even breitbart's time to lambast. wouldn't have fox news fabricating outrage. wouldn't have folks like dp parroting the silliness.

but don't get distracted. point is voter fears 'bout crt being taught in virginia public schools, regardless o' what crt is or is not, is the result o' republicans and right-leaning media willful misrepresentations. doesn't matter what crt is if is not actual being taught to kids in virgina schools or anywhere else, yes?

crt is just an example. at the moment, US republicans got nothing, so they are selling fear and relying on ignorance. sure as hell can't sell themselves as the party o' fiscal responsibility and limited government after trump. what is most terrible is that the new politics o' grievance and divisiveness is at least in limited ways a successful strategy for republicans, so their motivation to abandon such is limited. why let little things like honesty and integrity get in the way o' victory, eh?

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

On 11/3/2021 at 12:12 PM, ShadySands said:

I can't speak to Manchin in WV but in AZ Sinema is losing popularity rapidly with these stunts.

I read an article that claimed her base in Arizona now hates her, which I find to be absolutely hilarious. I think she's up for re-election in 2024, so we'll see if she tries to ride the (hypothetical) blue wave of not being a Republican or goes independent.

CRT panic is just a sanitized "you will not replace us". If you look what's actually being considered "CRT" by the folks so enraged about it, it's not actually the stuff coined by fancy university lawyers to explain why racism in the US is so persistent. It's stuff like historical accounts of the civil rights movement, segregation, etc. or it's a picture of a principal with his wife.

[Malcador]

Scaring people works wonders.  Wonder what the Democrats can scare people with.