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6 hours ago, BruceVC said:

https://www.argusmedia.com/en/news/2244907-new-zealand-enters-snap-lockdown-as-delta-emerges

@Zoraptor

I cannot believe how your government has failed to stop the virus.....you guys must be furious with your one confirmed case ?

What are  you  planning to do in response to this egregious outcome , I imagine you will be demanding your PM resigns or is prosecuted for failing to do her job?

Oh...and welcome to the global club of the spread of the pandemic ....never forget vaccinate, vaccinate, vaccinate 

 

 

6 hours ago, teknoman2 said:

its not the medical community but the media and governments that are at fault here. most of what they spew about vaccines is positive misinformation like eradicating covid through vaccination and the immunity wall myth. covid and it's vaccines are like the flu and it's vaccines, no matter how many people get vaccinated the virus won't go away and the vaccines' effects don't provide lasting immunity. sooner or later we will be back at square 1 unless we get regular booster shots. 

 

5 hours ago, teknoman2 said:

everything has a risk, even by getting off the bed in the morning you risk tripping and hitting your head. the thing with covid is how the whole thing was handled by governments and the media.

here's how it went here

we start with a terror campaign, we follow with a failing healthcare system that gets no help, we proceed with lockdowns and more "we're all gonna die", we use the fear as an excuse for authoritarian reforms, we drop a big chunk of the population in poverty by keeping their businesses closed for months until they file for bankruptcy, we implement stupid regulations and we impose ridiculous fines (like no more than 2 people in car even if they are the same family, meaning a mother of 2 can't have both her children in the car with her or she gets fined) with the excuse of stopping the spread we completely and shamelessly ignore the rules that we imposed on everyone else, we cross our arms and just wait for the vaccine, as soon as the vaccine is here we provide complete legal immunity to everyone involved in the vaccination process (from the producing company to the nurse who gives the shot including every member of the government), we give to the media for a pro vaccine campaign all the money we didn't give to the hospitals during the time when they needed them the most and because people (surprisingly) dont trust us after this "successful" handling of the situation, we proceed to use extortion to get them to vaccinate. meanwhile the constitution of the country has become a piece of toilet paper 

 

5 hours ago, BruceVC said:

You make some accurate observations especially around the various responses to the pandemic in our countries. I agree with the hugely negative impact the lockdowns have had on all our economies and what frustrates me the most about the lockdowns is its the private sector that has suffered the most with retrenchments and salary cuts and yet its the private sector that effectively drives the economy 

I dont know about Greece but in SA no one in government or the public sector has been retrenched or had salary cuts....in fact our public sector unions are still demanding double inflation salary increases and bonuses 

 

3 hours ago, Elerond said:

Lockdowns have been hard for certain sectors, but as general private sectors and economy is doing better than it did in 2019 in all over the world. Of course main reason for this is massive covid assistance programs launched by governments and institutions all over the world.

 

Not incorporating "delta" into the thread title.

Opportunity missed.

Edited August 17, 20214 yr by Keyrock

Was expecting the number of The Beast

I should cut the mods some slack. 5 years from now when the Upsilon strain is ravaging the planet it's going to keep getting harder and harder to come up with snazzy titles for the 23rd version of this thread. 

Better?

14 minutes ago, Amentep said:

Better?

Not really, I think its unhelpful to attribute religious reasons to a virus that needs science to address it 

53 minutes ago, Keyrock said:

I should cut the mods some slack. 5 years from now when the Upsilon strain is ravaging the planet it's going to keep getting harder and harder to come up with snazzy titles for the 23rd version of this thread. 

They are already up to the Lambda variant, so it might not even be a year. Reportedly they are considering using Constellation names next. Ready for the Andromeda Strain? 😈

1 hour ago, Malcador said:

Was expecting the number of The Beast

the number is probable 616. that said, we personal woulda' gone with a play on delta blues

'course the best delta blues is actual chicago blues.

regardless, am content to leave the naming nomenclature to whichever mod decides to make themselves a target for criticism by choosing anything other than numbers (roman or arabic) or the uninspired but inoffensive "(cont.)"

HA! Good Fun!

51 minutes ago, Amentep said:

Better?

Should be Coronavirus, no ? 😛

 

17 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Should be Coronavirus, no ? 😛

 

Everybody's a critic. 😛 

we're all gonna die one day, may as well be from covid

jokes aside, the main problem with the whole situation is misinformation. there is no source that is trustworthy. the government engages in misinformation 24/7 and so do corporations (including of course the media) so are they telling the truth this time? how much of it is the truth if any? then you have groups like the anti-vaxxers who spread their kind of misinformation because they want to see the vaccines fail. then you have doctors and scientists who speak for and against the covid vaccines with one side presenting research data that show its safe and effective while the other presenting research data for the contrary and 99% of people don't know enough to make sense of any of it in order to make up their mind 

so in the end people go with their gut feeling and, as my uncle said, "whoever is right, will come visit the grave of whoever is wrong". the only people who can make an informed decision are those  who know how to make sense of the research data and their friends and relatives whom they advise on the matter.

Edited August 17, 20214 yr by teknoman2

New mask mandate here so now I have to find toddler masks so my son can continue to go to daycare. Just wish they gave us like a week to find masks and try to get little kids used to it. I don't think my son's mask will last more than a few minutes.

1 minute ago, ShadySands said:

New mask mandate here so now I have to find toddler masks so my son can continue to go to daycare. Just wish they gave us like a week to find masks and try to get little kids used to it. I don't think my son's mask will last more than a few minutes.

I've seen some parents use stuff to adjust the straps on masks so they function for kids, but toddlers are a lot smaller than those I've seen so it sounds like a it could be quite a pickle.

Meanwhile the Texas governor just got the rona. I'm guessing that despite a shortage of hospital beds and a crumbling medical system, he will get top notch treatment while doing everything in his power to make it worse for everyone else trying to survive this stupid ass plague.

7 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

New mask mandate here so now I have to find toddler masks so my son can continue to go to daycare. Just wish they gave us like a week to find masks and try to get little kids used to it. I don't think my son's mask will last more than a few minutes.

Sticky tape is your friend 😝

On the bright side, I've never stopped wearing my mask so I don't have to start all over again.

Children under 12 are specifically excused from wearing masks here since it can be impossible to get them to keep them on.

We now have 7 cases here, fortunately all the exposure sites are very low risk like, uh, a pub and restaurant while watching the All Blacks, a school (teacher), hospital (vaccinated nurse) and a casino. Not their fault of course since they wouldn't have had a clue about being infected. Oh well, time to tackle my gaming backlog plus get the garden organised for spring, for the next 3+ weeks.

May I also say a fulsome 'thank you' to Gladys Berejiklian (premier of New South Wales in Ockeronia). I know New Zealand was once part of her state and is listed as a State itself in the Ocker constitution, but I would have been perfectly happy if she hadn't included us in her plan to spread delta throughout the commonwealth. And she had the fricking index case there and did nothing for over a week.

Edited August 18, 20214 yr by Zoraptor

23 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

May I also say a fulsome 'thank you' to Gladys Berejiklian (premier of New South Wales in Ockeronia).

Her and SloMo both. She screwed up NSW and Australia royally, but the former was responsible for the national quarantine measures (which has failed on a monthly basis so far, with no plans how to fix it)

6 hours ago, teknoman2 said:

we're all gonna die one day, may as well be from covid

jokes aside, the main problem with the whole situation is misinformation. there is no source that is trustworthy. the government engages in misinformation 24/7 and so do corporations (including of course the media) so are they telling the truth this time? how much of it is the truth if any? then you have groups like the anti-vaxxers who spread their kind of misinformation because they want to see the vaccines fail. then you have doctors and scientists who speak for and against the covid vaccines with one side presenting research data that show its safe and effective while the other presenting research data for the contrary and 99% of people don't know enough to make sense of any of it in order to make up their mind 

so in the end people go with their gut feeling and, as my uncle said, "whoever is right, will come visit the grave of whoever is wrong". the only people who can make an informed decision are those  who know how to make sense of the research data and their friends and relatives whom they advise on the matter.

What group of scientists and doctors are speaking against vaccines?

I found a site that sells (novelty) tin foil hats, complete with an E/M reflecting mylar cover, felt lining, and an elastic strap. I should wear one when I go in for a booster shot, just for the effect.

2 hours ago, ShadySands said:

New mask mandate here so now I have to find toddler masks so my son can continue to go to daycare. Just wish they gave us like a week to find masks and try to get little kids used to it. I don't think my son's mask will last more than a few minutes.

your post made us reflect on what a good thing it is we ain't a parent.

first solution which popped into our head:

Spoiler

immediately recognized that as fun as it seems, keeping on a toddlers head would remain difficult and would be distracting to the other kids. were just a moment o' whimsy as posed to serious reflection.

'course we then considered a creative application o' duct tape would be effective in keeping a mask affixed to an unruly toddler's head. again, weren't serious and were only a passing moment, but it dawned on us that we should never be left alone with small children... again.

HA! Good Fun!

 

5 hours ago, ShadySands said:

New mask mandate here so now I have to find toddler masks so my son can continue to go to daycare. Just wish they gave us like a week to find masks and try to get little kids used to it. I don't think my son's mask will last more than a few minutes.

The idea that kids are going to wear masks in schools all the time is well meaning but unrealistic 

I go past several primary schools on my daily walk  before 8 am and I see kids playing outside, very few of the kids have their masks on properly or  are even wearing them, Daycare will be even harder to enforce a mask mandate

I think this is to be expected considering the nature of kids and how they engage generally  

46 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

The idea that kids are going to wear masks in schools all the time is well meaning but unrealistic 

I go past several primary schools on my daily walk  before 8 am and I see kids playing outside, very few of the kids have their masks on properly or  are even wearing them, Daycare will be even harder to enforce a mask mandate

I think this is to be expected considering the nature of kids and how they engage generally  

social distancing is the obvious mitigation response. social distance were presumptive dismissed as an option seeing as you got the crumb snatchers going to daycare. 

so, what are the alternatives?  do nothing is often a perfect valid response, but as soon as something goes wrong, people rage at the cold hearted indifference o' those who stood by and watched as a problem unfolded.

am suspecting masks for toddlers is a security blanket move. is regular testing gonna be done? testing is more expensive. if something goes wrong at the daycare and there is a cluster o' outbreaks, folks in charge will be able to point to masks and other mitigation efforts they attempted to implement. practical effectiveness o' the mitigation efforts is sadly gonna be secondary to the recognition such efforts will insulate those with authority from responsibility. 

HA! Good Fun!

1 minute ago, Gromnir said:

social distancing is the obvious mitigation response. social distance were presumptive dismissed as an option seeing as you got the crumb snatchers going to daycare. 

so, what are the alternatives?  do nothing is often a perfect valid response, but as soon as something goes wrong, people rage at the cold hearted indifference o' those who stood by and watched as a problem unfolded.

am suspecting masks for toddlers is a security blanket move. is regular testing gonna be done? testing is more expensive. if something goes wrong at the daycare and there is a cluster o' outbreaks, folks in charge will be able to point to masks and other mitigation efforts they attempted to implement. practical effectiveness o' the mitigation efforts is sadly gonna be secondary to the recognition such efforts will insulate those with authority from responsibility. 

HA! Good Fun!

Its probably the most relevant point  when it comes to kids, daycares and schools and the  question  " what are the alternatives "

In SA our entire school virus measures have been an unmitigated disaster for several reasons but primarily because we are trying to achieve the almost unachievable objective of somehow stopping any kids from getting the virus but we also have the understandable and critical objective of getting schools open again 

So for example all our public sector schools have hardly been open consistently for 2 months since we implemented our lockdown 18 months ago and kids are really suffering with not doing very well at absorbing school work. One of my brothers has his kids at  a good public sector school. One of my nieces is 14 and they  have had to hire private tutors because she is not coping with the constant shutdowns of schools and the expectation that all kids can work remotely using virtual classes 

Our school nightmare is parents send their kids back to school and then after 2 weeks  they test their kids and some kids are positive but asymptomatic so they complain to the school board so the school closes for 10 days and then reopen but then other kids test positive so they close the school again and the cycle contains endlessly with the result that kids never complete meaningful time at schools

So what is the solution, I am now of the opinion that you quite simply wont stop the virus and its variants from spreading in most schools and most countries. We need to accept this but  you need to ensure that parents and teachers are vaccinated as they will be exposed to the virus 

But you also have to vaccinate kids in the appropriate age group because we are seeing the Delta variant is leading to more kids having real covid symptoms 

But I dont believe their is an elegant or effective solution to kids not getting exposed to the virus when  any schools reopen. I wish their was ? 

 

6 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

Children under 12 are specifically excused from wearing masks here since it can be impossible to get them to keep them on.

 

You only have taken that stance because you have such low cases of the virus and you haven experienced the virus running rampant

NZ will change its views on kids wearing masks if you go through what most of the rest of the world has gone through with the virus spreading exponentially and the reality of virus mutations. And I hope you dont go through that 

6 hours ago, Hurlsnot said:

What group of scientists and doctors are speaking against vaccines?

Not all vaccines to be clear, just the covid vaccines. They are not straight up against vaccination but they say that these vaccines are not safe enough and there is a high chance they will end up causing more harm than covid itself down the line.

Here in Greece we have a former health minister who's been a doctor for 35 years and counting, the director of a major hospital, the dean of the second biggest medical university, several professors from various other universities including a Nobel price winner (this one is not a doctor but has been compiling global research data and statistics for WHO, there are several of his reports on the WHO site that contradict the media reports) and more than a few hospital doctors who were working on covid countermeasures research to come up with treatments for the patients. Most of them claim that every doctor who had a look at the vaccine's make up could spot the risks involved with their use but most choose to keep quiet because they could lose their research funding.