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Not talking about the video though. You mentioned someone saying he had a knife and him being on drugs. Is there any actual evidence of that beyond someone 'mentioning' it? And who, specifically, mentioned it? Is it the same people who mention, say, covid19 being caused by 5G because Bill Gates wants to sterilise the world's population? Or is it someone who has read his medical report and has a medical background and might face consequences for lying about it? Big difference in confidence level depending on who is saying it.

As I said, 'people' always talk about the victims in these incidents reaching for weapons or being on drugs, even if neither is true. If there isn't any actual evidence of either being true then it's likely just a smear to demonise the victim and protect the perpetrator.

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18 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

Not talking about the video though. You mentioned someone saying he had a knife and him being on drugs. Is there any actual evidence of that beyond someone 'mentioning' it? And who, specifically, mentioned it? Is it the same people who mention, say, covid19 being caused by 5G because Bill Gates wants to sterilise the world's population? Or is it someone who has read his medical report and has a medical background and might face consequences for lying about it? Big difference in confidence level depending on who is saying it.

As I said, 'people' always talk about the victims in these incidents reaching for weapons or being on drugs, even if neither is true. If there isn't any actual evidence of either being true then it's likely just a smear to demonise the victim and protect the perpetrator.

no need to go illuminati on this, I think it was someone captured on those videos mentioning 'he got knife'

 

Witnesses say that Blake was unarmed, and had been trying to deescalate a verbal dispute between two women before officers arrived. (The bystander who filmed the encounter told NBC News that police were yelling at Blake to “drop the knife,” though they did not see a knife on Blake’s person, and added that Blake “wasn’t being violent.”) According to civil-rights attorney Ben Crump, who is representing the family, Blake’s three sons — who are 3, 5, and, 8 — were seated in the back of the car that Blake was trying to enter.

 

https://www.thecut.com/2020/08/kenosha-police-shooting-of-jacob-blake-what-we-know.html

I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"

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whenever there is a police shooting, we wish folks would ease off the accelerator. eyewitness accounts and rumours and curious interpretations o' partial videos help not at all. there is a reason Gromnir is always initial silent following these all too frequent events.

recommendation: just freaking wait. don't need wait weeks or months, but wait is never gonna result in less clarity in these situations.

oh, and 'cause...

RNC Speaker Boosts QAnon Conspiracy Theory About Jewish Plot to Enslave the World

"Her tweet on Tuesday linked to a lengthy thread from a QAnon conspiracy theorist that laid out a fevered, anti-Semitic view of the world. In its telling, the Rothschilds—a famous Jewish banking family from Germany—created a plot to terrorize non-Jewish “goyim,” with purported details of their scheme that included plans to “make the goyim destroy each other” and “rob the goyim of their landed properties.'"

...

"Mendoza’s tweet urging her followers to check out the anti-Semitic thread came on the eve of her Republican convention appearance. While the thread includes extensive anti-Semitism and references to QAnon, it also alleges that Hillary Clinton is a “Satanic High Priestess” and that  Barack Obama’s Washington home smells like sulfur — a reference to the idea, popular with InfoWars host Alex Jones, that Obama somehow smells like sulfur because he’s connected to the devil and Hell."

but she ain't the only gibbering lunartick to get rnc speaking time.

"Public school teacher Rebecca Friedrichs, who spoke at the convention on Monday, has claimed that public schools use their curricula to “groom” children for sexual predators like Jeffrey Epstein. On Tuesday, Vice reported that anti-abortion activist and convention speaker Abby Johnson praised the idea of police racially profiling her biracial son as “smart.” 

"“Statistically, my brown son is more likely to commit a violent offense over my white sons,” Johnson said in a video."

the party of lincoln? perhaps 2020 republicans is trying to channel the 2012 movie lincoln instead o' the POTUS.

need a lincoln to save us from the existential threats only the qanon folks are willing to admit exists?

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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1 hour ago, Chilloutman said:

..police were yelling at Blake to “drop the knife,” though they did not see a knife on Blake’s person, and added that Blake “wasn’t being violent.”

Well yeah, that ain't exactly compelling though as the cops aren't a disinterested party and the witness said he wasn't armed. If they were planning on deliberately shooting someone who posed no threat- which is certainly the worst interpretation of what happened, yes- and getting away with it then they need to establish that they thought the person posed an imminent threat and that they were in fear of their lives; yelling that the person has a knife does both. And it does both even if he isn't armed and they knew that.

Neither video shows the slightest evidence of him being armed though, apart from the cops yelling it. The videos are an incomplete picture of course, but they not only show no evidence of him being armed but also no evidence of how he could realistically have been mistaken for being armed. Similarly there is no actual evidence he was on drugs. Frankly, if there were any evidence of either I'd expect the PD /union/ lawyers of the cops to leak it immediately. Until there is evidence it's just innuendo at best or deliberate character assassination at worse.

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12 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

Frankly, if there were any evidence of either I'd expect the PD /union/ lawyers of the cops to leak it immediately. 

well, this part is clear wrong. blake is alive and that makes a big difference compared to other similar cases. da and judges would go ballistic, no pun intended, if the cops leaked any evidence which might affect their case(s) 'gainst blake. is possible evidence could still be leaked, but w/o the consent o' the da, any such leaker would be risking their career to do so. there would be an investigation into the leaks o' an active case, and is a good chance the state cops would be brought in for the investigation. 

just freaking wait.  educated guesses and conspiracy theories and conflicting witness reports will not lead to truth in the immediate future. just wait. nobody gets away with anything if everybody takes a deep breath and waits.

HA! Good Fun!

 

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Joe Biden should not concede under any circumstances

 

Can you imagine the aftermath of the 2020 election where neither side accepts a losing outcome? If if it's not close?  I mean if it's a Reaganesque blowout that is one thing. But if it's close enough one side or the other convinces themselves it's been stolen.... Katie bar the door.

Of course that would just give everyone license to act like the grasping savages I already think they are so...

 

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"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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1 hour ago, Gromnir said:

just freaking wait.  [..] nobody gets away with anything if everybody takes a deep breath and waits.

lol.

The system actually has to work for that to be true. Otherwise, lack of outrage is taken as assent, and nothing changes. Taking a breath and waiting has consistently meant nothing meaningful changes.

I jump to no conclusions- at most it's a small hop given the history of equivalent cases which leaked like sieves so long as the leaks painted the victim in a bad light. Leaping to conclusions would be something like, say, thinking Russia would be bankrupt in 6 months in 2014 because of US sanctions. There is no knife shown, nor has any witness corroborated the claim about it. He's been persistently been described by witnesses as a peacemaker in the initial argument, and not violent. There is no evidence of drug use.

I'll freely admit having an absolute and extraordinary low opinion of the US law enforcement and justice systems though, for what that's worth. If there's one thing I really appreciate about US electoral/ healthcare/ justice systems it's how much better I end up feeling about ours after comparison, and I'm not overly happy about ours either.

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41 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

lol.

The system actually has to work for that to be true. Otherwise, lack of outrage is taken as assent, and nothing changes. Taking a breath and waiting

I jump to no conclusions- at most it's a small hop given the history of equivalent cases which leaked like sieves so long as the leaks painted the victim in a bad light. Leaping to conclusions would be something like, say, thinking Russia would be bankrupt in 6 months in 2014 because of US sanctions. There is no knife shown, nor has any witness corroborated the claim about it. He's been persistently been described by witnesses as a peacemaker in the initial argument, and not violent. There is no evidence of drug use.

I'll freely admit having an absolute and extraordinary low opinion of the US law enforcement and justice systems though, for what that's worth. If there's one thing I really appreciate about US electoral/ healthcare/ justice systems it's how much better I end up feeling about ours after comparison, and I'm not overly happy about ours either.

more conspiracy theories unsupported by... anything.

misrepresenting again, and reaching pretty far back to do so. our observation were sanctions, which you laughed off 'cause o' currency reserves (HA!) would be devastating and that a harvard economist suggested russia could go bankrupt in less than a year unless they took extreme measures. so, as with so many zor conspiracies depending on thin air conjecture, where is your support? sure ain't any reputable source which would suggest that law enforcement would undermine an active case just 'cause o' pr flack. 

as this is an active case, with a defendant who is not the cops, there is unlikely to be any kinda law enforcement evidence released to public at least until there is a decision 'bout a charging document.  fact law enforcement has not in any way rebut the absence o' evidence *snort* or a couple eye witness accounts is what an educated observer would expect in this situation as 'posed to seeing as proof o' assumptions.

and no, wait is not tacit acceptance. can rage tomorrow or monday just as well as today and is hardly as if moral high ground has been vacated 'cause people waited for reality over conjecture. *chuckle* you don't even seem to realize you is advocating an embrace o' ignorance. such a position is surprising honest but am suspecting you do w/o realizing.

you were talking out your keister, again.  no chance you would admit you were mistaken.

HA! Good Fun!

ps for the more reasonable people who is willing to listen to reason, am not claiming there will be evidence o' a knife or drug use or defendant belligerence. we. don't. know. however, absence o' official law enforcement response or leaks (for chrissakes) should not be taken as prima facie evidence o' cop wrongdoing. don't let a q-anon mindset drive your conclusions. wait.  

Edited by Gromnir

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Trump swearing in citizens at the RNC and signing a pardon all for show sure is something else, heh.  What odd times.

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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1 hour ago, Malcador said:

Trump swearing in citizens at the RNC and signing a pardon all for show sure is something else, heh.  What odd times.

Not odd at all.....perfectly normal and part of the Trump theater and represents his transmogrification of reality show TV and normal political decorum and strategy 

There was a  time in the beginning of the Trump era, back in 2015,  when he started his campaign that this would have both surprised and shocked me but nothing surprises me anymore about Trump

If he loses the election, which he should , I am going to miss a few things about him and the positive changes he has brought. For example I have never seen China so obsequious and conciliatory with any US president. China was dismissive of Obama and IMO treated him rudely at times

Last night I was watching a really good interview on CNN with Christina  Amanpour and a very articulate Chinese CEO of a global think tank and  the Chinese guy basically was reiterating that China wants a good and healthy relationship with the USA, how China doesn't want a war with the USA and it was also mentioned how the CCP actually wants Biden to win because Trump is too unpredictable 

Its interesting how things have changed because the CCP use to like and support Trump

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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2 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

lol.

The system actually has to work for that to be true. Otherwise, lack of outrage is taken as assent, and nothing changes. Taking a breath and waiting has consistently meant nothing meaningful changes.

I jump to no conclusions- at most izt's a small hop given the history of equivalent cases which leaked like sieves so long as the leaks painted the victim in a bad light. Leaping to conclusions would be something like, say, thinking Russia would be bankrupt in 6 months in 2014 because of US sanctions. There is no knife shown, nor has any witness corroborated the claim about it. He's been persistently been described by witnesses as a peacemaker in the initial argument, and not violent. There is no evidence of drug use.

I'll freely admit having an absolute and extraordinary low opinion of the US law enforcement and justice systems though, for what that's worth. If there's one thing I really appreciate about US electoral/ healthcare/ justice systems it's how much better I end up feeling about ours after comparison, and I'm not overly happy about ours either.

Zora you know how I hate getting involved in other peoples debates but Gromnirs right, please dont jump the gun....lets just wait till all the evidence and all the footage has been collated and then we can malign and blame the police for this incident :thumbsup:

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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1 hour ago, Malcador said:

Trump swearing in citizens at the RNC and signing a pardon all for show sure is something else, heh.  What odd times.

am suspecting part o' the reason trump did what no other President in living memory would stoop to do as part o' a campaign event is to create an obvious bullseye for 'angry libs' to attack. haters gonna hate trump no matter what, right? even when he does something harmless or laudable such as the pardon, far left nancy boys are still gonna find some reason to attack trump. go ahead and complain about trump tweets or his excessive golf or hydroxychloroquine, 'cause when you do so, 'gainst all reason, it proves to the trump base you are the problem.

trump's base wants you to complain, 'cause in their weird world, your complaint validates their defense o' trump. instead o' defending trump covid-19 measures, which stretches all reason to the breaking point, the trump base may take a stand on such relative inconsequential issues as televised pardons at the wh and hatch act violations. hundreds of thousands o' covid-19 deaths and all the excesses o' executive authority is becomes nothing more than additional angry lib talking points.

trump wants to distract both you and his base. keep your eye on the ball.

HA! Good Fun!

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Seems so, at least has CNN or MSNBC snarking at it.  Guess that helps as some minor motivation for Dems as well.  Was more a comment on it being tacky more than anything nefarious.

 

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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47 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Last night I was watching a really good interview on CNN with Christina  Amanpour and a very articulate Chinese CEO of a global think tank and  the Chinese guy basically was reiterating that China wants a good and healthy relationship with the USA, how China doesn't want a war with the USA and it was also mentioned how the CCP actually wants Biden to win because Trump is too unpredictable

That creates an interesting conflict of interest, doesn't it? I'm fairly sure Putin would want Trump to win to further weaken the US. If Xi wants Biden to win, it's time for the rest of us, ladies and gentlemen, to place our bets. Which stable is going to field the winning horse in the race 😁

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“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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21 minutes ago, Gorth said:

That creates an interesting conflict of interest, doesn't it? I'm fairly sure Putin would want Trump to win to further weaken the US. If Xi wants Biden to win, it's time for the rest of us, ladies and gentlemen, to place our bets. Which stable is going to field the winning horse in the race 😁

You right it does create an interesting, political  dichotomy around who supports Trump

Coincidentally there  are valid reasons for this dichotomy that our US friends probably wont be too concerned about yet it impacts certain  geo-political realities that Trump has both contributed towards and supported  and now the question becomes " if he is gone how do you resolve these things that Trump was addressing " ?

So the different countries that may or may not support Trump can  be broken  from a high level perspective  into 

  • Russia, Israel, Gulf States,  Japan and SK who want Trump to win because his foreign policy decisions align with many of there concerns 
  • China, the EU and most other Western countries who I would argue prefer a Biden win as Trump has upset and created problems around  global alliances  and understanding the importance of certain alliances like NATO

 

Conflict of interest indeed, pass the popcorn 

📺

 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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12 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

I'm sure China wants stable trade more than anything else

Yes this is a huge factor for there personal geo-political goals and there economic survival and transformation is linked inextricably to the USA being there primary export market 

But they also want to be left alone to influence there region in many areas like Hong Kong and the South China Sea developments 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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we mentioned abby johnson a bit earlier in the thread.

"On Tuesday, Vice reported that anti-abortion activist and convention speaker Abby Johnson praised the idea of police racially profiling her biracial son as “smart.” 

"“Statistically, my brown son is more likely to commit a violent offense over my white sons,” Johnson said in a video."

Sorting Fact From Fiction in the Story of Pro-life Celebrity Abby Johnson

...

HA! Good Fun!

 

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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5 hours ago, Malcador said:

Trump swearing in citizens at the RNC and signing a pardon all for show sure is something else, heh.  What odd times.

I just watched the part of the " swearing of citizens "  and  I cant think of  more blatant example of overt, racial tokenism than that....it was  so staged and reeked of pandering  it made me laugh :grin:

I was literally expecting Trump to next find a black baby that he could hug and coddle 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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I mentioned there are some  things I will miss about Trumps personality....this video highlights an example :lol:

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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There is nothing I will miss about Trump. Oh, an my fellow Americans, once this is over, no more celebrity President's please. You've been flirting with it over the years. Now you've gotten it out of your system. 

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"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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2 hours ago, Gromnir said:

we mentioned abby johnson a bit earlier in the thread.

"On Tuesday, Vice reported that anti-abortion activist and convention speaker Abby Johnson praised the idea of police racially profiling her biracial son as “smart.” 

"“Statistically, my brown son is more likely to commit a violent offense over my white sons,” Johnson said in a video."

Sorting Fact From Fiction in the Story of Pro-life Celebrity Abby Johnson

...

HA! Good Fun!

 

Like anyone would believe the "records" of a company that kills babies 🤢

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China's definition of 'stable trade' is them getting everything they want and giving nothing in return. Nothing wrong with that - to each their own - but let's not pretend they are singing  peaceful songs. They don't even treat their own people morally or fairly.. you expect them to treat outsiders morally or fairly? LMAO

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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