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Politics - wait for it... wait for it... 2020 isn't over yet


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32 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

 

I'm sure that the poor and the middle class will like that... 

They will like it even more, if more simple jobs will be automated, and medium complex jobs will be offshored

and that is perhaps biggest lie trump is successful selling to his base. automation is only gonna increase, and why on earth would you wanna stop it save more medicine dan style apocalypse nightmares... except instead o' demonic  democrats is skynet you need fear? 

we got a service based economy and is no way to slow automation or compete with cheap foreign labor. pretend as if trump can reverse progress is idiotic, but the alternatives is hard. explain to all the poor rust belt folks that they need get retrained in industries and jobs 'cause o' inevitable economic progress which natural benefits people with college educations is not an ez sell. is honest, but is not ez. 

is just so weird. the folks who has benefited most from trump's idiotic spending spree and ackjass tax cut is the wealthy. the people least hurt by the pandemic is college educated and wealthy. farmers is hurting worse now than when farm aid began back in 85.  factory jobs has only come back in small instances, but the generalized trends continue and the disposable income o' poor and middle class has not increased under trump. who gets smacked in the teeth hardest if trump successful repeals obamacare w/o a replacement, a replacement impossible w/o Congress btw? poor and lower middle class.

never has a self described populist (a populist who failed to win the popular vote and has not even reached 50% approval rating o' any composite poll since second quarter of his first year in office) done so little for his base and maintained such loyalty. fact trump did so little with Both houses o' Congress maintaining republican majorities for the first two years is genuine surprising. deal maker extraordinaire? *chuckle* is so Not american how things is playing out. americans typical hold Presidents accountable even if the President is largely blameless for woes. is any number o' european parliamentary style elections where ideology is more important than results, but that ain't what happens in the US, at least not for more than a century. 

as for skarp_one, you are talking nonsense... as usual. a coup is by definition an illegal seizure o' government control. if the Constitutional process for removal o' the President is followed, (impeachment by house and conviction by senate) then is not illegal regardless o' your imagined international boogeyman... whatever is the relevance o' such in the present context only skarp_one may guess. 

HA! Good Fun!

ps @MedicineDan may wanna consider that the polls he derides were kinda spot on during the last national election... in 2018. even if you somehow believe the polls has failed to appropriate adjust even post 2016 to the curious realities o' an electoral college which made sub 1% margins o' victory in three states enough give trump a Presidential win, such ain't factors in Congressional races, and the pollsters were pretty darn accurate last time we had Congressional elections.

much can change 'tween now and november. for example, am expecting a bs william barr october surprise, but such stuff ain't quantifiable in any current poll. medicine dan should be more concerned 'bout senate, but am kinda relieved he and the other members o' the trump congregation (your apocalypse talk is more in line with a fire and brimstone church sermon so don't blame us for drawing the parallel) is distracted. keep your focus on getting trump elected while overlooking the more important vulnerable senate seats where an electoral college victory ain't possible. 

Edited by Gromnir

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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double-post, but is separate and is worth mentioning how 'cause trump is such an impotent deal maker he recent used executive orders to pilfer more than $40 billion dollars from FEMA and he did so during (edit: not before) hurricane season. back in april Gromnir mused on these boards how a covid pandemic simultaneous with hurricane season would require creative anticipatory planning. 

just another another case o' trump ignoring a predictable future problem to satisfy an immediate political goal. 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Edited by Gromnir

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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1 hour ago, Gromnir said:

and that is perhaps biggest lie trump is successful selling to his base. automation is only gonna increase, and why on earth would you wanna stop it save more medicine dan style apocalypse nightmares... except instead o' demonic  democrats is skynet you need fear? 

 

 

You can't stop that, barring some heavy tax on offshore services (and even then it would be hard to define such). 

Automation is also not going to stop. 

However, who can sell it better, that (s)he protects poor and middle class from negative effects of these? 

How you build your education and business incentives systems around morphing economy, which may result in high structural unemployment?

Why do you still ingest high numbers of poorly qualified mouths to feed and shelter? (this is more of EU issue though) 

 

When it comes to changing qualifications. There also seems to be some double standard. It was ok, to tell miners 'learn to code', but when online journalists were told the same last year, it was considered hate speach? 

 

Edited by Darkpriest
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15 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

double-post, but is separate and is worth mentioning how 'cause trump is such an impotent deal maker he recent used executive orders to pilfer more than $40 billion dollars from FEMA and he did so during (edit: not before) hurricane season. back in april Gromnir mused on these boards how a covid pandemic simultaneous with hurricane season would require creative anticipatory planning. 

just another another case o' trump ignoring a predictable future problem to satisfy an immediate political goal. 

HA! Good Fun!

 

He can always cut FED aid funds from states, where high level of riots and calls for defunding law enforcements are present 😉 and be the cynic he is, and move them to aid with hurricanes? 

 

Obviously this is a hyperbole and cannot be this straightforward, but I'm fairly sure he can find a way to blame dems mayors and governors or at least put them in front of a dilemma they won't like, or will cry outrage about, and predictably it will fit into the narrative of the Whitehouse, which they will be able to capitalize. 

They seem to be quite good at capitalizing bursts of outrage, given the recent trends in polls

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5 hours ago, Gromnir said:

all o' which doesn't matter. we voted mccain instead of obama and kerry instead o' bush. bob dole was and is a better man than bill clinton, so he got our vote.  when it comes to the Presidency, in our mind the most important quality is character. perhaps you think we got one or two past Presidential choices wrong. fair enough. reasonable minds may differ and am admitting the choice 'tween hillary and donald were indeed a devil's bargain. even so, try and convince us trump is a better human being than bidden. dare you. given our focus on character, the 2020 Presidential election is the easiest choice ever.

...Have you ever actually voted for the person that, you know, ended up winning? If not, please vote for Donald Trump this fall, :p.

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Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.

 

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Biden is a racist who has literally told blacks they arne't black if they don't vote for him.  I don't believe Trump has ever said that. Biden supported the murder of Amerikans without trial. Biden supported (like Trump) to separate families at border. The list goes on.  Trump is a poopy head. Biden is worse and has the history in politics to back up his evil. 

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8 hours ago, MedicineDan said:

Biden is normalizing the destructive forces of chaos that mean to destroy us.

Elaborate how.

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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1 hour ago, Malcador said:

Elaborate how.

y tho

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Put fascists and sociopaths on your ignore list.

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Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.

 

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9 hours ago, MedicineDan said:

 

 
The Left’s desire to cancel anyone who doesn’t fall in line might make this unpleasant, but we better start speaking out before the freedoms that have been the bedrock of our society are swept away. I know! I know! “No one is saying that!”

You can swap left for right here. Did you miss all the stuff that happened in Portland? The Trump administration is just as keen on taking away your freedom as a potential Biden administration. 

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6 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

y tho

Just curious, as I'm not seeing it myself.

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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2 hours ago, Malcador said:

Just curious, as I'm not seeing it myself.

well no, of course not, but this is self-proclaimed political expert SonicMage I mean MedicineDan you're talking about

(e): had the wrong username, RIP

Edited by Bartimaeus

Put fascists and sociopaths on your ignore list.

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Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.

 

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2 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

well no, of course not, but this is self-proclaimed political expert SonicMage I mean MedicineDan you're talking about

Well, we are all experts at everything here. :p

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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****, Biden being an avatar of chaos who will destroy civilization sounds way cooler than what he actually is.

18 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

You can swap left for right here. Did you miss all the stuff that happened in Portland? The Trump administration is just as keen on taking away your freedom as a potential Biden administration. 

Being called a **** on social media seems to be a different thing than unmarked cars picking kidnapping people or the baby camps.

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"I am the expert, asshat." - Hurlsnot

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3 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

...Have you ever actually voted for the person that, you know, ended up winning? 

a couple times, but yeah, am recognizing Americans is less concerned 'bout character than they is a good commercial spot... which is ok seeing as how well the lincoln project and republicans for the rule of law has been doing on that front recent.

weird how the best biden commercials is from conservatives.

 

5 hours ago, Darkpriest said:

 

However, who can sell it better, that (s)he protects poor and middle class from negative effects of these? 

 

 

that is the point: trump is selling/lying as 'posed to doing anything.

and singular anecdotal evidence about journalists don't help you at all.  most professions require constant education. an IT guy who were educated in the 90s would be complete useless today but for upgrading o' skills and knowledge. same goes for many/most other professions. 

trump is lying about the problems (which ain't immigrants flooding in from southern border for chrissakes) and the solutions. worse, he hadn't actual improved quality of life for his base even before covid-19 while his bungling o' that test has hurt his constituency more than those elitists with their fancy educations.

is salesmanship and lying as 'posed to doing, and yet, the faithful are loyal to trump.

HA! Good Fun!

Edited by Gromnir
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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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26 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

well no, of course not, but this is self-proclaimed political expert SonicMage I mean MedicineDan you're talking about

MedicineDan is Eldar/Cantousent. He's been around for a long time and has been pretty consistent in terms of beliefs. He's also shared a lot of his personal story over the years and is very likely a real person. :)

 

SonicMage/ComradeMaster is just looking to get a reaction out of people with every post, and he speaks in meaningless pejoratives. Personal background story is fairly flimsy. Honestly could just be a bot.

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I am oby.

 

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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8 minutes ago, Malcador said:

I am oby.

Why did you leave us, where we not worthy?

Here is a video in Oby's honor. Seemed like something he would post.

 

Edited by Sarex
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6 minutes ago, Sarex said:

Why did you leave us, where we not worthy?

Here is a video in Oby's honor. Seemed like something he would post.

 

Surprised no dashcam footage from Russian POV.

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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6 minutes ago, Volourn said:

Cops never killed black people when Obama and Biden were in power. :rollseyes:

It is interesting to compare the Ferguson protests, as well as the Occupy Wall Street movement, to the current situation around the country. I remember Obama getting a lot of flak for supposedly 'escalating' the tensions and situation. :shrugz: 

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7 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

It is interesting to compare the Ferguson protests, as well as the Occupy Wall Street movement, to the current situation around the country. I remember Obama getting a lot of flak for supposedly 'escalating' the tensions and situation. :shrugz: 

obama's failure to respond 'til things were well and complete out of hand, particular to the ferguson situation, garnered him considerable criticism from mainstream media. 

part o' the problem is, and am suspecting it will take another hundred or so attempts to drive the point home, but the President and the federal government have extreme limited authority to deal with matters related to state and local law enforcement. the Constitution explicit reserves police power to the states and sheriffs departments, in particular, are near complete autonomous and insulated from any sorta federal interference.

you wanna fix what happened in kenosha?

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_law_enforcement_agencies_in_Wisconsin

this is one issue where people crying out for a national solution is complete and utter misguided. is literal not possible to fix nationally. should be focusing local as 'posed to national.

but yeah, obama coulda' been a voice o' reason and leadership but he didn't wanna alienate anybody by choosing a side. 

...

the following ain't directed at hurl as we know he ain't engaging in whataboutism, but others are.

say what you will 'bout obama shortcomings insofar as ferguson or baltimore or wherever. lord know Gromnir ain't condoning or absolving obama. the thing is, compare trump and obama and see as similar  is just so transparent flawed.

obama didn't respond to protests by sending in masked federal stormtroopers in complete violation o' the Constitution where those militarized troops routine violated the civil rights o' protesters, whisking people away in unmarked vans and detained, w/o charges or lawyers for unspecific 'mounts o' time... all in an effort to make trump appear tough on crime for his base. 

is not a matter o' degree or a spectrum when compare trump and obama. obama failed to lead. trump, on the other hand, directed by means unconstitutional, immoral and unfreakingamerican the trampling o' civil rights and constitutional protections o' US citizens and he did it for no reason than to solidify his base.

HA! Good Fun!

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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1 hour ago, Hurlshot said:

MedicineDan is Eldar/Cantousent. He's been around for a long time and has been pretty consistent in terms of beliefs. He's also shared a lot of his personal story over the years and is very likely a real person. :)

 

SonicMage/ComradeMaster is just looking to get a reaction out of people with every post, and he speaks in meaningless pejoratives. Personal background story is fairly flimsy. Honestly could just be a bot.

Your basic premise is wrong though. Since everyone is Eldar, Eldar also is of course SonicMage117 and ComradeMaster. 

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Give me the eyes, so I see
Give me ears, so I hear
Give me love, so I know what love is
Give me freedom to think, to believe
In something
                        -- Tony Kakko

 

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