Baldur's Gate 3 - the 2nd thread

[Theonlygarby]

19 hours ago, Wormerine said:

88GB. Pretty chunky early access.

Yeah too much for my SSD unless I delete everything else.  If it was a full game I wouldn't mind, but for now I'll wait

[Chilloutman]

little surprised there were no updates for it for some time

[BruceVC]

https://www.destructoid.com/stories/larian-founder-swen-vincke-on-dice-druids-and-baldur-s-gate-3-624779.phtml

Here is a nice update, sorry if its old 

 

[Chilloutman]

long time not seen any updates on BG3? Did anyone seen any news?

[Sarex]

There were some updates, but nothing really substantial. What kind of updates are you expecting? We pretty much know how the game looks and plays, the only thing left is the release date which will be late 2021, but more then likely 2022.

[kanisatha]

1 hour ago, Sarex said:

There were some updates, but nothing really substantial. What kind of updates are you expecting? We pretty much know how the game looks and plays, the only thing left is the release date which will be late 2021, but more then likely 2022.

I think they've pretty much confirmed the full release won't be until well into 2022.

[Chilloutman]

I was wondering if they introduce more classes into beta as they did with druid for example. Too bad that release date is 2022

[Oner]

I think they said they will. Wanted to get through the more complex classes first. Some of the races are missing as well.

[kanisatha]

On 6/16/2021 at 10:48 AM, Chilloutman said:

I was wondering if they introduce more classes into beta as they did with druid for example. Too bad that release date is 2022

To be clear, they haven't explicitly said release in 2022. What they have said is that they initially envisioned EA to last a year, but now, due to both the pandemic and learning from the EA that they have a lot more work to do on the game than they previously assumed, EA will have to be extended to perhaps a year and a half to two years. So, extrapolating from this, ....

[BruceVC]

23 minutes ago, kanisatha said:

To be clear, they haven't explicitly said release in 2022. What they have said is that they initially envisioned EA to last a year, but now, due to both the pandemic and learning from the EA that they have a lot more work to do on the game than they previously assumed, EA will have to be extended to perhaps a year and a half to two years. So, extrapolating from this, ....

I am fine with understandable and  necessary delays, they mustn't  release a game that is subpar or riddled with bugs like we saw with the initial launch of Cyberpunk 

BG is a grand and prestigious franchise and close to most of our hearts. I  dont want  its reputation to be tarnished by an imprudent early release due to pressure from us fans 

[Wormerine]

 

[sorophx]

damn, guys. I knew the game wasn't all that good when compared to BG2, but reading this thread is outright depressing

[BruceVC]

3 minutes ago, sorophx said:

damn, guys. I knew the game wasn't all that good when compared to BG2, but reading this thread is outright depressing

In what way is it depressing considering how little we really know about the game and its final release ?

[BruceVC]

2 hours ago, Wormerine said:

 

What a great interview, I like Swen. He is charming, funny, charismatic and comes across as very sincere

I appreciate his honesty admitting how much more  complex BG3 is compared to D:OS2  and it bodes well that Larian Studios has hired 3 x more people to work on BG3  and still has more vacancies for various positions. That hag Auntie Ethel looks like someone I cant wait to fight and kill 

Good find Wormie, really good find 

[Wormerine]

6 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

That hag Auntie Ethel looks like someone I cant wait to fight and kill 

Been there, done that :-). Odd encounter for lvl 4 content. 

I know Larian want come back to pure DnD, but I wonder how well they can fixed problems that they have introduced.

[BruceVC]

17 minutes ago, Wormerine said:

Been there, done that :-). Odd encounter for lvl 4 content. 

I know Larian want come back to pure DnD, but I wonder how well they can fixed problems that they have introduced.

I mentioned this before but I never, ever play early game releases  or test games. I always  wait till its released because then its more exciting 

So the  Ethel encounter  was part of the early release I assume, how was that battle and what was odd about it ?

[BruceVC]

I was browsing through some of the Steam early access comments from gamers  and I came across this absolutely hilarious  post which I had to share 

" I butchered a group of refugees in cold blood which turned a Drow lady on so much she immediately demanded sex with me. 10/10 " 

That sounds like something I could be persuaded to do  because Drow women are so hot, oh Viconia my love, my life  

[Wormerine]

2 hours ago, BruceVC said:

I mentioned this before but I never, ever play early game releases  or test games. I always  wait till its released because then its more exciting 

So the  Ethel encounter  was part of the early release I assume, how was that battle and what was odd about it ?

That's very sensible creed - one I try to live by, but tend to fail in upholding. With BG3 I used GoG generous Early Access policy to try the game, and decided to refund it and (most likely) wait for 1.0. After finishing Solasta, I am actually quite itching to jump back into BG3, but they will need to improve UI before I am willing to commit the full price.

Encounter with the hag was pretty fun. I just would expect it to be a higher level encounter, not something to be done in act1. Encounter itself I liked, though it did use hand scripting (battle had stages tied to hag's health), which I don't have a definitive opinion on yet. 

[marelooke]

15 hours ago, BruceVC said:

In what way is it depressing considering how little we really know about the game and its final release ?

We know it's Divinity: Original Sin 3 in all but name and setting. That's enough for many people to be disappointed. Many of the friends and acquaintances I have that enjoyed the Baldur's Gate series did not enjoy the D:OS-games all that much.

Regardless of whether the game is any good as it is, anyone expecting something even remotely resembling the Baldur's Gate series is going to majorly disappointed, because this ain't it.

I'm still baffled by the need to abuse the name of a long completed series and then make a game nothing like it. A game that, from the looks of it, could very well have stood on its own based on Larian's merit, the pedigree of the setting, and the quality of the product that's out there (so far). I really can't help but see this as an ego-trip in that they were allowed to make Baldur's Gate 3. That or a severe case of company-level imposter syndrome, I suppose.

To people not having played BG1&2 it doesn't matter. And those that did either don't care, or are mightily annoyed. The entire thing reminds me of Prey, that drama was completely unnecessary and marred the reputation of what was otherwise a great game in the eyes of many and it still gets brought almost every single time Prey is mentioned.

Edited June 18, 2021 by marelooke

[BruceVC]

31 minutes ago, marelooke said:

We know it's Divinity: Original Sin 3 in all but name and setting. That's enough for many people to be disappointed. Many of the friends and acquaintances I have that enjoyed the Baldur's Gate series did not enjoy the D:OS-games all that much.

Regardless of whether the game is any good as it is, anyone expecting something even remotely resembling the Baldur's Gate series is going to majorly disappointed, because this ain't it.

I'm still baffled by the need to abuse the name of a long completed series and then make a game nothing like it. A game that, from the looks of it, could very well have stood on its own based on Larian's merit, the pedigree of the setting, and the quality of the product that's out there (so far). I really can't help but see this as an ego-trip in that they were allowed to make Baldur's Gate 3. That or a severe case of company-level imposter syndrome, I suppose.

To people not having played BG1&2 it doesn't matter. And those that did either don't care, or are mightily annoyed. The entire thing reminds me of Prey, that drama was completely unnecessary and marred the reputation of what was otherwise a great game in the eyes of many and it still gets brought almost every single time Prey is mentioned.

Thanks for the detailed response, I appreciate the detail as I am binary thinker so details matter so I can understand the concern or point

And of  course your view is subjective about BG3 as all our opinions are. For example I absolutely loved BG2: ToB, it still is my favorite game and party based RPG of all time but I recently, 6 months ago, played D:OS2 and it was excellent....one of my top 5 games. This was the first Larian game I had ever played so well done to your country for producing such a gem

So even though I respect and understand your general criticism about BG3 I dont see this an issue because you raise the most relevant point about BG3 which is basically will it adhere to the core design and mechanic of previous BG games. So it would be interesting to get everyone who has played the BG series to comment on what they loved about it. I will go first,  what was it about BG2 that I enjoyed so much 

• The narrative was compelling  and I was constantly surprised and excited  around how it unfolded
• The usage of the AD&D  ruleset matters to me because I use to play the tabletop RPG so things like spells and classes and understanding combat strategy matter
• The lore and setting of the Forgotten Realms is my favorite setting
• The monsters and places to explore matter
• My party and interaction matter and things like optional Romance arcs are important to me

Now all these things existed in D:OS2 but obviously in the context of that game world so I cant see why Larian cant do the same thing for BG3 in the Forgotten Realms using the D&D ruleset ?

So going back to my  question, what was it that you loved about BG and once that is clear why cant Larian implement it in BG 3?

I look forward to members responses 

 

Edited June 18, 2021 by BruceVC

[Wormerine]

1 hour ago, marelooke said:

I'm still baffled by the need to abuse the name of a long completed series and then make a game nothing like it.

I am making a guess, but I wonder if a non-Baldur's Gate game would be able to get such a big budget. BG is a flagship IP, so even though Larian is more interested in expanding their D:OS formula, it might have greatly controbuted to funding. 

 

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

So it would be interesting to get everyone who has played the BG series to comment on what they loved about it.

I find Larian's storytelling wanting. Their games feel to me more like sandbox or themepark then an interactive story or adventure. Wealth of interactivity and reactivity doesn't mean anything to me, if I am not drawn into fiction. Having choice is unappealing, if I am not concerned about outcome. I really dislike Larian's coopcentric design - Origins I think are a horrible abomination resulting in not interesting companions, and reducing our ability to shape our custom NPC when deciding to go that route. I am doubtful if Larian's commitment to high fidelity presentation will pay off. What we have so far, I think is awful, but with game not being finished yet it is difficult to say how it will look.

And then there is weird stuff - taking rest teleporting you to a pocked-universe camp in a generic woods, quick travel teleport, singular map design which doesn't try to create a coherent locations (people unaware of what is happening outside the zone they have been designed for - think Driftwood citizens from D:OS2 unaware of a massive hole in the ground a minute away from their town).

I will am not hang up on any individual changes (being made by Larian, I did expect to get Larian game) but I am doubtful. When it was announced I thought: "Larian game using DnD setting and ruleset! I can get behind that", and then Larian seems to try to gut DnD and make it as close to Divinity as they can - missing is rare due to overabundance of advantage, guaranteed source of damage through surfaces, broken action economy. It's not even D:OS2 vs DnD - it's just both work so differently that I think Larian is in danger of satisfying no one. But they still have time to itirate. I do hope the changes he is talking about will attempt to fix at least some problems (like reactions).

I don't really judge BG3 against BG1&2 - I see Larian games as a completely different genre then Infinity Engine games, though I wish they had a different sense of humor. I find their games rather unfunny. Then again, I didn't like D:OS2 much. In fact, I thought D:OS1 was a better title. I do think that BG3 will be better then either, and BG3 definitely tries to address at least some of the criticism one could level against D:OS2 (companions are way more fleshed out for one), but it still doesn't just click with me. 

My datailed thoughts on each are here and here.

Edited June 18, 2021 by Wormerine

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Wormerine said:

I am making a guess, but I wonder if a non-Baldur's Gate game would be able to get such a big budget. BG is a flagship IP, so even though Larian is more interested in expanding their D:OS formula, it might have greatly controbuted to funding. 

 

I find Larian's storytelling wanting. Their games feel to me more like sandbox or themepark then an interactive story or adventure. Wealth of interactivity and reactivity doesn't mean anything to me, if I am not drawn into fiction. Having choice is unappealing, if I am not concerned about outcome. I really dislike Larian's coopcentric design - Origins I think are a horrible abomination resulting in not interesting companions, and reducing our ability to shape our custom NPC when deciding to go that route. I am doubtful if Larian's commitment to high fidelity presentation will pay off. What we have so far, I think is awful, but with game not being finished yet it is difficult to say how it will look.

I will am not hang up on any individual changes (being made by Larian, I did expect to get Larian game) but I am doubtful. When it was announced I thought: "Larian game using DnD setting and ruleset! At least I can get behind that", and then Larian seems to try to gut DnD and make it as close to Divinity as they can - missing is rare due to overabundance of advantage, guaranteed source of damage through surfaces, broken action economy. 

I don't really judge BG3 against BG1&2 - I see Larian games as a completely different genre then Infinity Engine games, though I wish they had a different sense of humor. I find their games rather unfunny. Then again, I didn't like D:OS2 much. In fact, I thought D:OS1 was a better title. 

My datailed thoughts on each are here and here.

Great post Wormie  and you raise  some very interesting points, I enjoy posts when you go into details  because you often raise, I am sure  unintentionally,  points that I can agree with, sometimes not agree with but understand or points that I dont understand yet I am compelled to get clarity because its interesting. Often I will read someone's post on  this forum and others and I may not understand something and I dont feel the need to clarify which is normal because we should only spend time doing things like posting comments and engaging in debates if we want to and have something to add

When you say you like fiction but dont care about the outcome in a RPG that is 100 % opposite to me so I want to understand what you mean. So any RPG for me is hugely, and I mean as much as 30-38%, about the narrative which in a RPG is about choices and choices influence the journey which leads to the outcome and the entire party interaction and growth ....but without the outcome I dont see the point of the journey ?

So what is the fiction outside of what any RPG normally has , so things like choices that lead to quests and outcomes.

Its all about the outcomes surly...how can it not be ?

 

Edited June 18, 2021 by BruceVC

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

3 hours ago, Wormerine said:

I am making a guess, but I wonder if a non-Baldur's Gate game would be able to get such a big budget. BG is a flagship IP, so even though Larian is more interested in expanding their D:OS formula, it might have greatly controbuted to funding. 

It's more correct to say that Baldur's Gate was a flagship IP two decades ago. While using Baldurs Gate 3 as the title was an obvious attempt to cash in on nostalgia, I think the big budget is mostly because WotC wanted a big game along with the new TV series to milk the IP. As such they'd probably throw many at anything they thought would be commercially successful, which is unfortunately the Forgotten Realms.

 

Edited June 18, 2021 by KP the meanie zucchini

[Wormerine]

6 hours ago, BruceVC said:

So any RPG for me is hugely, and I mean as much as 30-38%, about the narrative which in a RPG is about choices and choices influence the journey which leads to the outcome and the entire party interaction and growth ....but without the outcome I dont see the point of the journey ?

I absolutely think that choice and reactivity is important, but for me how interesting those choices are is more important that how many they are or how much unique content they have. For example there is a big central conflict between two factions in BG3 and I feel there is a right way to proceed. There are few other ways one can handle the situation, but those others are **** paths - and not selfish ****, as if: I am screwing other people over, but it benefits me. Just yolo ****. I intentionally created an evil rogue character, and most of the time I couldn't justify following the evil path.

[Oner]