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Baldur's Gate 3 - the 2nd thread


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On 6/18/2021 at 9:46 PM, Oner said:

 

Wormien posted this excellent update already but its always good to know people are contributing updates when you find them :thumbsup:

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
22 hours ago, Oner said:

 

I could be insufferably cynical and say “I would rather see xxxx problem solved” but other then that all of that stuff looks good/great. Keep that coming and we might get somewhere. 

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The question is it enough to play the early access again or do I wait for the next update, sounds like in one of the QAs during that insane LARPing session the next update is gonna be content and perhaps a new class and/or race.  It sounded like they wanted to get most of the classes into early access eventually.  As for camping, now if they would just add the day/night cycle I am going to be really excited.

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On 6/17/2021 at 8:53 PM, BruceVC said:

In what way is it depressing considering how little we really know about the game and its final release ?

Turn-based only, very poor-looking dialogues, uninteresting graphics. I wouldn't say depressing (that was someone else), but it certainly doesn't look like it's anywhere near BG2 in quality.

(The first point, turn-based only, is enough to put me off the game. BG2 was so good that it's interesting to watch the development and reception of BG3, such as it is at the moment, but actually playing... no.)

Edited by xzar_monty
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3 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

very poor-looking dialogues, uninteresting graphics.

I do hope that cutscenes will get revamped before 1.0, and graphically I think it is very impressive. It’s a different vibe then BG1&2, but then again there is very little influence of BG1&2 in general. I am liking it more with every update, but by now I managed to decouple BG3 from its precedessors. It’s Larian’s take on DND, and so far seems to be a big improvement on D:OS2. I might actually like this one. 

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13 minutes ago, Wormerine said:

I do hope that cutscenes will get revamped before 1.0, and graphically I think it is very impressive. It’s a different vibe then BG1&2, but then again there is very little influence of BG1&2 in general. I am liking it more with every update, but by now I managed to decouple BG3 from its precedessors. It’s Larian’s take on DND, and so far seems to be a big improvement on D:OS2. I might actually like this one. 

Wormie you making more and more sense as time goes on....dont stop making sense 💫

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"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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2 hours ago, Wormerine said:

I do hope that cutscenes will get revamped before 1.0, and graphically I think it is very impressive.

This is, of course, a matter of opinion, but here's why I don't think it looks impressive at all: there are far too many close-up shots. I find them immersion-breaking, because you can see how unnatural everyone's expressions and face movements are. Also, they are not in sync with whatever they're saying. So, in wanting to make things look more immersive and/or "realistic", this approach actually breaks immersion for me. The old BG2 graphics are dated, of course, but there's nothing immersion-breaking in them -- they leave an awful lot for your imagination, which is precisely what the close-up scenes in BG3 don't do. (I'm also one of those people who are almost never interested in movies based on books, as books tend to be so much better, for somewhat similar reasons.)

But, as I said, this is a matter of opinion. BG3 is going down a road that I find completely uninteresting, but even though that's a bit sad, it's also fine -- I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything, the game being like that.

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15 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

This is, of course, a matter of opinion, but here's why I don't think it looks impressive at all: there are far too many close-up shots. I find them immersion-breaking, because you can see how unnatural everyone's expressions and face movements are. Also, they are not in sync with whatever they're saying. So, in wanting to make things look more immersive and/or "realistic", this approach actually breaks immersion for me. The old BG2 graphics are dated, of course, but there's nothing immersion-breaking in them -- they leave an awful lot for your imagination, which is precisely what the close-up scenes in BG3 don't do. (I'm also one of those people who are almost never interested in movies based on books, as books tend to be so much better, for somewhat similar reasons.)

But, as I said, this is a matter of opinion. BG3 is going down a road that I find completely uninteresting, but even though that's a bit sad, it's also fine -- I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything, the game being like that.

You make a good point about the importance of us using our imagination as an effective part of the overall RPG journey 

But I just dont know if close-up scenes negate that....I really am not sure it does in my gaming experience 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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1 hour ago, xzar_monty said:

This is, of course, a matter of opinion, but here's why I don't think it looks impressive at all: there are far too many close-up shots.

I agree with all that you have written. I interpreted your comment about game’s graphic in a different way. 

Visual fidelity is on high level even at this point and is likely to get better - but there is a lot of junk, and cutscenes in particular need serious work to add to the experience rather then detract. It might/ might not happen. 

There is a lot of work to be done there both when it comes to generated cutscenes, and more directed ones. If there won’t be a big leap in quality, then yes those will end up embarrassingly distracting and won’t work on release, and I would rather not have them at all. It is not impossible, though, that they are still expanding library of emotes, working on chaining animations, figuring out staging etc. And hopefully, it will all be reviewed before shipping. 

I also really really really want a major UI overhaul. 

BG3 still doesn’t release for quite a while so they have time to improve. As I mentioned I think it moves in right direction, so it all depends on how far they get before the release date comes.

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1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

You make a good point about the importance of us using our imagination as an effective part of the overall RPG journey 

But I just dont know if close-up scenes negate that....I really am not sure it does in my gaming experience 

Yeah, if it doesn't then fair enough. As I said, it's a matter of taste.

Here's an analogy: there's a successful game called The Football Manager. Some years ago, they introduced a 3D engine to the game, in addition to its traditional 2D. So, previously, as a football (soccer) manager you'd been able to watch the actual matches only in 2D with your players represented by stylized circles, but now you were also able to watch them in 3D. And for me, and quite a few others, this was an awful change: the 3D engine is an attempt at a realistic portrayal of a match, but it's so unrealistic that it's actually a lot worse than the crude 2D view. The sprites look nothing like the real-world players they are meant to represent, their movement is clumsy, and so on.

I get a similar feeling with these close-up scenes. The artificiality of the bodies and their movements is so obvious that it feels immersion-breaking for me.

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4 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Wormie you making more and more sense as time goes on....dont stop making sense 💫

It is still a ****ty Baldur’s Gate sequel :-). But as long as Larian won’t miss the opportunity to create something of value, I can live with that. 

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6 hours ago, Wormerine said:

It’s Larian’s take on DND, and so far seems to be a big improvement on D:OS2.

I guess this is where different people (among those who did not like the D:OS games) have different reactions. For me, BG3 is not (yet) sufficiently differentiated from D:OS2 for me to like it. Still waaaaay too much D:OS2 in the game for my taste.

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35 minutes ago, kanisatha said:

I guess this is where different people (among those who did not like the D:OS games) have different reactions. For me, BG3 is not (yet) sufficiently differentiated from D:OS2 for me to like it. Still waaaaay too much D:OS2 in the game for my taste.

I totally agree with this. From what I've seen, it looks like another D:OS iteration set in a different fantasy world. I can understand why this is so: D:OS2 was a resounding success, so it's reasonable to continue in that vein. But that also means it doesn't look like BG at all.

It would be nice if I liked both BG and D:OS in the same way I like both BG and PoE, but that's just not so. D:OS is uninteresting to me. Shame, really.

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Yeah, I'm kind of in the "too much D:OS2" camp. There's some really good stuff in it. But there's may not enough of what I loved most about Baldur's Gate. I'm particularly not a fan of the origin system. It turns companion quests into these drawn out affairs that need to have one development per chapter. What Baldur's Gate 2 really did not need was Minsc wasting all of Act 1 pretending he didn't have a hamster in his pocket. Yet that's pretty much what that Warlock and Vampire guy are doing.

Have they said anything about if they're still committed to locking off areas every chapter?

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4 hours ago, Humanoid said:

I'm the counterexample where I feel it's not enough D:OS and too much PnP DnD.

I am therefore really interested to see if Larian will pull it off. Tying to combine two radically different RPGs systems might result in them not fully satisfying either camp.

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5 hours ago, Humanoid said:

Yeah, and to neatly illustrate the divide, I'm the counterexample where I feel it's not enough D:OS and too much PnP DnD.

I've got you beat. I find it to be too much D:OS AND too much PnP D&D 5e, and not enough original BG games and a game that remembers it is a video game and not a TT simulator.

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3 hours ago, Wormerine said:

I am therefore really interested to see if Larian will pull it off. Tying to combine two radically different RPGs systems might result in them not fully satisfying either camp.

I think the big difference between the DOS system and D&D is how much the later swings based off d20 rolls. While the party getting wiped because your super competent trapspringer rolled a 1 and blew everyone up is pretty faithful to pnp as written (in practice gm fiat can prevent more unpleasant effects) it probably will piss off most gamers playing by themselves. With the loaded dice option I think we'll see lot less of that, and in general I think Baldur's Gate Original Sin will appeal to present 5e players and DOS fans, which are the groups I assume those coastal wizards were trying to get to buy the game.

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Sooooo...

I think Larian wasn't kidding when they said "Full VO". It's just one bit I have seen so far, but I am sure eventually there is more to come. 

EDIT. Fixed

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can anyone see Wormerine post?

I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"

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