Politics and Statesmenship: A Forum Special Report

[smjjames]

48 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Netanyahu and Trump does seem to have a rather cozy romance with each other going on there. Love conquers all after all, so no need for real justification for their actions. Too much trouble at home? Create bigger problems abroad.

There’s plenty of problems abroad that crop up on their own or fester without the need to create one, all Trump needs to do is choose one. Any distraction from domestic things has been fleeting for Trump, largely because of Trump or they fade into the background noise. Trade war drums have amped up a bit recently though. 

Edited May 7, 2019 by smjjames

[Zoraptor]

I'd blame the US media for a lot of Trump's sabre rattling foreign policy- the one thing that media near unanimously approved of was him lobbing missiles at Syria. Indeed, approved of is a pretty severe understatement of its reception. Anything Trump does domestically has two sides to it with the media mostly being against what Trump wants; but blowing up random brown people gets near universal celebration. In even gets celebration from Trump's anti intervention base, so long as it doesn't cost too much and there aren't US casualties.

I'd presume the 'threat' from Iran was Zarif's mention of closing the Straits of Hormuz to countries friendly to the US or something related to it (minelayer movement or YJ-7 anti ship missiles being moved into the area as examples, though you'd have to think they'd be there as a matter of course). But it's not like US carrier groups are a stranger to the Persian Gulf and it's most likely just more posturing.

[smjjames]

Considering that Trump loves Fox so much, it’s not surprising that there would be a feedback effect there. Also, when he started, I half expected Fox to accidentally make him declare war a la the U.S.S. Maine incident. They haven't yet though, but the potential is still there. 

[ktchong]

 

Edited May 7, 2019 by ktchong

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, smjjames said:

Considering that Trump loves Fox so much, it’s not surprising that there would be a feedback effect there. Also, when he started, I half expected Fox to accidentally make him declare war a la the U.S.S. Maine incident. They haven't yet though, but the potential is still there. 

that is part o' the difference 'tween the object lesson which were the cruise missiles to syria and the present situation with iran.  

syria were a b!tch slap... nothing more.

were limited and calculated to humiliate both syria and russia, and it were highly effective. no real chance o' escalation. us tells syria and russia that the slap is coming and they have more than an hour to sit and prepare to be slapped. humiliation. no casualties. more important to media and voters, no us casualties. coulda' sent cruise missiles anywhere in syria, and not just the air base. wouldn't necessarily be warning next time when a missile ended up catching general ________ on the toilet, eh?

the current scenario has a much greater likelihood o' getting out of hand, which is why media other than fox is expressing concern rather than support. we should all mourn the absence o' kelly, mattis and mcmaster from the trump cabinet.  is multiple examples o' trump or bolton requesting something stoopid, and the generals (and others) needing act as the better angels o' our nature to prevent conflagration and tragedy. 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/factcheck/trump-says-nobody-disobeys-my-orders-here-are-15-recorded-instances-of-exactly-that/ar-BBWbkjK?ocid=spartanntp

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/05/06/john-bolton-on-the-warpath

am not certain if this is a crisis o' trump's making to distract from domestic issues. such were a prophetic fear we vocalized on these boards early in the trump Presidency and am sincere in the hope such a line o' selfish and callous recklessness has not been crossed. 

too many things can go wrong.

ps statement by former federal prosecutors

"We are former federal prosecutors. We served under both Republican and Democratic administrations at different levels of the federal system: as line attorneys, supervisors, special prosecutors, United States Attorneys, and senior officials at the Department of Justice. The offices in which we served were small, medium, and large; urban, suburban, and rural; and located in all parts of our country.

"Each of us believes that the conduct of President Trump described in Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s report would, in the case of any other person not covered by the Office of Legal Counsel policy against indicting a sitting President, result in multiple felony charges for obstruction of justice."

count o' signatories (a few is big timey) is at 566. were 395 less than 12 hours past.

at some point even the fox hole trump loyalists gotta question whether this is the guy they should be defending, no?

 

Edited May 7, 2019 by Gromnir
avoiding a double-post

[Zoraptor]

The only thing either strike on Syria accomplished was boosting Trump's approval, that the US lied blatantly about the results was more than proof enough of that. The whole argument has been done to death before though, and I have no stomach for another round of 'but I went shooting in Dakota so I know everything about New Zealand' style stupidity. Even I have a cooldown period.

[Gromnir]

another zor moment. proof of trump's boosted approval were us lies 'bout the results? is that your logical conclusion?

oh well, let's enjoy a musical interlude while zor composes himself.

HA! Good Fun!

[Guard Dog]

This will fly like a lead zeppelin: https://medium.com/@corybooker/corys-plan-to-end-the-gun-violence-epidemic-ab377d9fb112

Dem POTUS candidate wants the US gov to issue licenses for gun ownership. He says if you need a license to own a car why not a gun. Well, you DON'T need a license to own a car, just drive one. But anyway driving a car isn't a right. If you have to ask the government for permission to exercise a right it isn't really a right is it? So I guess when you get your gun license you can also apply for you license to speak, write, assemble, associate, redress the government, be secure in your persons and property (oh wait... they took that away a long time ago. Civil Asset Forfeiture) No have soldiers quarters in your house. not be tried for the same thing twice, not have to worry about cruel or unusual punishment, or not be enslaved. Women and minorities don't forget to get you license to vote while you are there. 

[injurai]

8 hours ago, ktchong said:

 

Who even thinks to do stuff like this? Joe Biden creeps me out more and more.

[Malcador]

Well, doesn't the 2nd Amendment mention 'well regulated' ? So that would mean some for licence or test of competency, no ?

Not sure what making gun manufacturers do safety recalls and have safety warnings is going to do to curb gun violence.  "Warning : Misuse of this HiPoint may result in premature death" 

Edited May 7, 2019 by Malcador

[Gfted1]

I dunno Malc, were pretty goddamn stupid over here. We even have to be warned that coffee is hot and should not be poured over our genitals. Maybe a warning would solve all of societies problems?

*snorts a tide pod*

[Malcador]

The coffee in that case was heated far too hot to drink, if I recall. 

[Hurlshort]

43 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

I dunno Malc, were pretty goddamn stupid over here. We even have to be warned that coffee is hot and should not be poured over our genitals. Maybe a warning would solve all of societies problems?

*snorts a tide pod*

People love to make light of something that almost killed this lady. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/12/16/13971482/mcdonalds-coffee-lawsuit-stella-liebeck

But we are lucky we have Gfted around to defend these poor global corporations that generously offered to cover 1/10th of the medical costs involved.

Edited May 7, 2019 by Hurlshot

[Gfted1]

In the ensuing years this has grown to NEARLY KILLING HER! I love the telephone game.

Anyhow, who wants to join me in indulging a pod? 

[Guard Dog]

15 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

In the ensuing years this has grown to NEARLY KILLING HER! I love the telephone game.

Anyhow, who wants to join me in indulging a pod? 

I'd love to but I just poured hot coffee on my junk and I'm busy calling lawyers right now! 

[HoonDing]

" Dem POTUS candidate wants the US gov to issue licenses for gun ownership. "

A small step toward becoming civilized.

[Gfted1]

Is that something new? Illinois, and probably some other states (but not all), already requires a FOID Card.

[ShadySands]

 

30 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

I'd love to but I just poured hot coffee on my junk and I'm busy calling lawyers right now! 

I used to think it was a frivolous lawsuit too until I saw it on an episode of Adam Ruins Everything

 

[Gfted1]

Now Im curious, what was the fatality percentage of the other 700?

[Hurlshort]

10 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

Now Im curious, what was the fatality percentage of the other 700?

Classic Gfted. I'm completely wrong on something so lets deflect!

[Malcador]

Seems this guy got off easy to begin with

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2019/05/07/trump-pardons-former-us-soldier-who-killed-iraqi-prisoner/

[Hurlshort]

20 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Seems this guy got off easy to begin with

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2019/05/07/trump-pardons-former-us-soldier-who-killed-iraqi-prisoner/

25 years for something that happened in a war zone seems pretty serious. I believe in accountability, but that is a pretty complicated situation.

[Gfted1]

27 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

Classic Gfted. I'm completely wrong on something so lets deflect!

Damn buying power was much stronger in 1994! Her 20K hospital bill, you know, to stave off the reaper, is only equal to $33,887 today! I definitely need the number to her doctor because nowadays cheating certain death is much more expensive.

I tried Googling: "how many people "almost died" from spilling hot mcdonald's coffee on themselves" and the results are a little sparse. Does any actual data exist? 

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, ShadySands said:

 

I used to think it was a frivolous lawsuit too until I saw it on an episode of Adam Ruins Everything

 

am gonna ruin adam... a little. 

physics is the reason mcdonalds sold really hot coffee. the hotter a fluid is, the quicker it becomes cold... which probable doesn't mean what you think it means. the rate a fluid decreases in temp from 200-199 is gonna be faster than from 199-198. is not that if you have a 200 degree fluid it will reach room temp faster than one at 150. regardless, really hot coffee cools really fast, and that is likely the only time you is ever gonna see Gromnir use "really" multiple times in a post. mcdonalds didn't make huge amounts o' money on their coffee, and people wanted hot coffee. could spend more money on super-insulated cups, which woulda' cost mcdonalds money or, they could make the coffee hotter, so would stay hot longer. made sense to heat the coffee from mcdonald's point o' view.

point is, there were good physics behind why mcdonalds served frightful hot coffee, and they did include a warning label, and as adam glosses over, the coffee spill were the old ladies fault, 'cause whether she is a silver-haired old lady drawn to look like adam's grandmother should not make her a better client. put a fragile paper and plastic cup o' hot coffee 'tween your legs with only thing holding in contents is a flimsy lid and hope. what could possible go wrong, eh? in fact, the jury decided the coffee spill were mostly grandma's fault, which is why actual damages were far less than the $20,000 she were asking for in her lawsuit. but again, illinois is a contributory negligence state, so if mcdonalds is deemed to be 20% at fault, they need pay 20% o' damages. 

sounds fair, yes?

ok, and here is the kicker, the reason the award were so large were 'cause o' something called punitive damages. on these boards we have used the coffee case to illustrate how punitive damages work and why awards may be so large. because mcdonalds were a fraction at fault in the case there were the possibility o' punitive damages IF mcdonalds were wanton reckless or knowing negligent in their behavior... and that is where those other 800 people who got burned during a relative short period o' time become the linchpin to the big award. mcdonalds knew folks were getting burned. mcdonalds knew the little old lady were hardly the first to use her legs to hold the cup while adding cream ad/or sugar or talking on phone or adjusting radio or driving. mcdonalds knew, despite warnings, that people were getting burned, and they were at least a little responsible for people getting burned. so how does a civil court punish mcdonalds to make certain such behavior does not repeat?

money. civil court remedy is money. if your neighbor did same as mcdonalds (which is not possible, but try and imagine your neighbor is the person responsible for all those burned people) how big o' a fine would need be level'd at her to make her stop selling sooper-hot coffee to little old ladies too stoopid to know better than to put the cup between their legs? if ms. ________ makes $50k a year, a $5k fine would hurt far more than if she made $500k, yes? 

...

see where this is going?

lawyer pulls out a dry-erase board and shows simple math to jury. lawyer, all magnanimous, agrees a $5k punishment for ms. ____________ would be extreme harsh and unnecessarily high. so how 'bout $1000... or even $500. would a $500 fine be enough punishment to prevent ms. _________ from contributing to the burning o' 800 future customers?  the thing is, mcdonalds don't make $50k. mcdonalds generates billions in revenue, +$20 billion.

50,000 ---- 500

20,000,000,000 ---- 

lawyer dramatic adds the zeroes and ends up with $20mil.

and why didn't the other $800 people sue? more than a few tried, but most couldn't get an attorney to even take their case. lawyers were looking for the perfect client. needed somebody who suffered and didn't simple get a slight blister on their tongue. legal, burned tongue or lap makes no difference for the punitive damages calculation, but makes a difference to juries. needed somebody whom the jury would sympathize with. so, we get the parked car with everybody's favorite grandma as the victim, and she gets 3rd degree burns. ideal plaintiff.

weren't a frivolous lawsuit, but adam kinda leaves stuff out and glosses over other points for effect. regardless, the basic misunderstanding were 'bout the nature o' punitive damages. single plaintiffs receive huge award for even minor injury happens 'cause o' civil court limited options for changing behavior o' bad actors. court punishes with money.  the big award ain't 'bout the nature or magnitude o' the injury... ain't even 'bout how vile and cruel were bad actor. penalty is big 'cause the defendant is really, really wealthy and a monetary chastisement which would be effective in correcting such behavior must needs be really, really big. really.

...

feel like paul harvey.

anybody bother to read all that? oh well.

HA! Good Fun!

[Gfted1]

I read it all.