Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2

[melkathi]

Thank God we don't have to fear a game from CCP though. I'll take DLC-Paradox any time over those people.

[Raithe]

50 minutes ago, melkathi said:

Thank God we don't have to fear a game from CCP though. I'll take DLC-Paradox any time over those people.

The released footage wasn't too bad but there wasn't much of it shown.

For the teaser trailer when they gathered the fans in New Orleans for the big reveal to say "Yes, we're basing it on Vampire the Masquerade, not Vampire the Requiem" :

 

If you're somewhat curious on it, there is the World of Darkness Documentary which covers the creation, the journey through the 90's, the tv show, the strife, suing the fan-club, CCP's buyout, and general stuff.  It's free on Amazon Prime in the UK at the moment, don't know about other regions.

[BruceVC]

https://www.pcgamer.com/vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-2-delayed-as-its-developer-is-replaced/

I must say these delays are getting ridiculous now 

 

[Lexx]

"delayed indefinitely" wow, sounds like they are rewriting the whole game.

At this point, why not just say it is cancelled.

Edited February 23, 2021 by Lexx

[Chilloutman]

2 minutes ago, Lexx said:

"delayed indefinitely" wow, sounds like they are rewriting the whole game.

At this point, why not just say it is cancelled.

pre-orders

[melkathi]

When companies stop taking people's money, you know it is bad.

[ShadySands]

I'm mostly curious about who has taken over development. I'd assume they got a studio with some experience with the type of game they're trying to deliver but none of their internal studios come to mind.

[BruceVC]

2 hours ago, ShadySands said:

I'm mostly curious about who has taken over development. I'd assume they got a studio with some experience with the type of game they're trying to deliver but none of their internal studios come to mind.

This is my biggest concern and expectation, I want to know more about the new development studio and what projects they have been involved in. Can they deliver an exciting Vampire gaming experience is what I need to be convinced of ?

[Zoraptor]

4 hours ago, ShadySands said:

I'm mostly curious about who has taken over development. I'd assume they got a studio with some experience with the type of game they're trying to deliver but none of their internal studios come to mind.

I wouldn't be sure they have a replacement lined up. It's a hospital pass for whoever got/ gets it as taking over development half way through is notoriously difficult and the title's reputation is pretty much shot to pieces. Best damage mitigation for Paradox also would have been to name the replacement studio immediately. Despite what Paradox state publicly I would not be surprised if it was quietly canned further down the line and both remaining preorders got cancelled in a few weeks.

Frankly their statement strikes me as damage control for an outright failed title, and I would not be surprised at all if Hardsuit has been off it for a while prior to the announcement.

[213374U]

Their year-end report states that another studio has taken over. However the decision not to name it is certainly eyebrow-raising and it could be corp-speak for "we asked XYZ to take a look to see if it's salvageable" rather than work on the game in earnest. It stands to reason that the new studio wouldn't want to have their name associated with this dumpster fire until they are confident that it can be turned around.

Refunding preorders made on a game that's basically riding on nostalgia and name-dropping is probably not something PDX want to think about and the decision not to cancel it outright may be a good indication of the volume of said preoders.

Edited February 24, 2021 by 213374U

[melkathi]

It is the natural evolution of the paradox model though:

Now even dev studios come as dlcs.

[Zoraptor]

7 hours ago, 213374U said:

Their year-end report states that another studio has taken over. However the decision not to name it is certainly eyebrow-raising and it could be corp-speak for "we asked XYZ to take a look to see if it's salvageable" rather than work on the game in earnest. It stands to reason that the new studio wouldn't want to have their name associated with this dumpster fire until they are confident that it can be turned around.

Refunding preorders made on a game that's basically riding on nostalgia and name-dropping is probably not something PDX want to think about and the decision not to cancel it outright may be a good indication of the volume of said preoders.

The trouble with both of Paradox's statements are that they are exactly what I'd expect them to say if the game was looking to be cancelled, but they didn't want to outright say it because the CEO/ CFO have upcoming earnings calls and don't want to answer difficult questions. What I'd expect if they were committed to release would be a very explicit and directed statement, what we've got has a lot of wiggle room.

"We have started a collaboration with a new studio partner to finish work on the game [vtmb2]. This has been a difficult decision, but we are convinced that it is the right way forward to do the game justice" is designed to imply all the right things, without actually saying them.

'Collaboration with a new partner'; if it's actually a new lead dev why not just say that? So yeah, it isn't even a question only of them not naming the developer. Trouble is that phrase is exactly the sort of term you'd use if you had brought a consultant in to potentially shut down the project rather than work on it. Same with 'finish work on' and 'do the game justice'. Shutting it down is also finishing work on it, and if it is unsalvageable the obvious PR tack to take is that it wouldn't have done the game justice. In short, those statements are exactly the sort I'd expect to precede a later statement about how, sadly, they've come to the conclusion that the game cannot be released and meet their expectations of quality so has been shut down.

I'll freely admit that my interpretation is a baldly negative one, but it's hard to cobble together much positive out of the VTMB2 development circus. The record of games successfully escaping development hell is poor, the record for games successfully changing developers half way through is also poor. Paradox management may be mostly phone app free to play veterans now, but they'll still know those basic realities and adages about throwing good money after bad.

[213374U]

Nah, I see what you mean. "States" is certainly pushing it and the report doesn't really 'state' as much as it insinuates. Even if they have found someone to take over (big if), seeing the project to completion has to be a monumental task. Otherwise they wouldn't have replaced the whole studio in the first place.

I'm curious who would even want to take the project on, who can also be expected to finish it with any certainty. Can't be many candidates.

Edited February 25, 2021 by 213374U

[Deadly_Nightshade]

I have no idea how accurate the rumors are but some people on the /r/vtmb have latched onto talks between Paradox and Microsoft as a sign that Obsidian or Bethesda might have taken over development. Although my guess this is mostly wistful thinking more than anything else.

[melkathi]

Active as most Obsidian devs are here in this forum, wouldn't we have suspected something if they were working on Vampire?

[BruceVC]

5 hours ago, Deadly_Nightshade said:

I have no idea how accurate the rumors are but some people on the /r/vtmb have latched onto talks between Paradox and Microsoft as a sign that Obsidian or Bethesda might have taken over development. Although my guess this is mostly wistful thinking more than anything else.

Those would be brilliant options for another development studio. But because of the legacy and complexity of this game I would think Bethesda would be the slightly better choice..not by a long way way but better

I dont mind if its wishful thinking..." hope springs eternal in the human breast " 

[Deadly_Nightshade]

8 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

But because of the legacy and complexity of this game I would think Bethesda would be the slightly better choice...

So you mean experience with buggy games, right? 

[BruceVC]

1 minute ago, Deadly_Nightshade said:

So you mean experience with buggy games, right? 

No its for several reasons like how much I love Elder Scroll games with their committed modding community and also Microsoft doesn't  like to be seen to fail like most global companies and they have the resources to fund worthwhile projects so if a decision is made to take over such a prestigious title as   Bloodlines then you can be guaranteed enough resources will be thrown at the game to ensure it works and works properly 

[Lexx]

I mean, if Obsidian would do it, at least we would get a finished game.

My only issue is that the last couple Obsidian games were all playing it super safe when it comes to quest complexity, to the point that everything feels predictable. So ... without having played a vampire game by Obsidian, I kinda already feel like I know how it would play.

/Edit: I just saw the Bethsoft thing above and .... lolno. No. God... no. lol. No. Stop it.

How the hell would Bethesda be a better choice for "complexity" when all Bethsoft games are known for being shallow as duck.

Edited February 26, 2021 by Lexx

[BruceVC]

37 minutes ago, Lexx said:

I mean, if Obsidian would do it, at least we would get a finished game.

My only issue is that the last couple Obsidian games were all playing it super safe when it comes to quest complexity, to the point that everything feels predictable. So ... without having played a vampire game by Obsidian, I kinda already feel like I know how it would play.

/Edit: I just saw the Bethsoft thing above and .... lolno. No. God... no. lol. No. Stop it.

How the hell would Bethesda be a better choice for "complexity" when all Bethsoft games are known for being shallow as duck.

Lexx I think you must be honest, its always best 

I am getting the distinct impression that you dont like Bethesda games, sorry to sound harsh but that is definitely what I am picking up? Maybe you should reframe your posts so you dont create that impression 

[Lexx]

I like Skyrim for what it is. I hate their take on Fallout. Morrowind is probably the best game they made.

Yet it doesn't change the fact that their quest design is always shallow and mostly about having you trek over the whole worldmap time and time again while you experience their randomly slapped together theme park game worlds.

Edited February 26, 2021 by Lexx

[Humanoid]

To mirror the authentic Bloodlines(TM) experience, Obsidian will develop the first two acts, and Bethesda will develop the final two acts.

[ShadySands]

Bethesda and Larian are some of the worst ideas I've seen kicked around. Problem is that I can't even think of a studio I'd want to handle it. I guess Obsidian would be okay but I also some some big doubts about them too.

[BruceVC]

23 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

Bethesda and Larian are some of the worst ideas I've seen kicked around. Problem is that I can't even think of a studio I'd want to handle it. I guess Obsidian would be okay but I also some some big doubts about them too.

Shady !!!! Now I am truly shocked and almost speechless....but I am never quite speechless as you know 

I cannot believe you think both Larian and Bethesda are subpar development studios, remember Larian created the hugely popular Divinity series... I loved D:OS 2, it offered  one of the most strategic and exciting combat systems ever released and it was a very engaging RPG. I must have spent about 150 hours completing it and their was a nice aspect of Romance besides all the other worthwhile RPG mechanics

Also I am so use to you always supporting and endorsing my posts I just get a little surprised when you dont agree with my pithy words ...so I apologize if I seem unfairly critical 

 

[BruceVC]

55 minutes ago, Lexx said:

I like Skyrim for what it is. I hate their take on Fallout. Morrowind is probably the best game they made.

Yet it doesn't change the fact that their quest design is always shallow and mostly about having you trek over the whole worldmap time and time again while you experience their randomly slapped together theme park game worlds.

Okay I see what you mean about the perceived lack of depth with quests...thats a fair point 

But do we need complex quests in Bloodlines,  dont we need good and captivating quests but not  necessarily complex quests?Their is a difference