So... the loot kinda sucks

[Daidre]

@Tidefall

But it is not only overbearing. Both Hours and Tall Grass Grass has knockdown.

 

Char with 2-hander is usually barb and he will be horrible penalized with low INT to speed up dot. And on crit procs crazy in his hands.

Tall Grass also has hit to crit conversion and reach that is priceless for me in crowded melee.

 

I would ranked Tidefall behind both of them as sum of properties, but this is where I usually run out of hands to hold 2-handers even in early game. It is also bad on more fragile chars because I despise rest spam and they lose HP too fast without reach.

 

So my first superior weapon usually ends up dead weight in party stash. Some times, in the hands of paladin who not fountain of DPS on low level. And dot that requires 3 INT to shine (I play without mercs and even Eder is not this stupid) not good enough to change that.

 

And I spent 1.2k - 1.5k hours on first POE  if it is only thing you care about in people opinions.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Daidre

[Boeroer]

That might be a matter of taste though.

 

Which armor(s) do you mean?

[Ophiuchus]

IMHO, the game's itemization does suffer from too many "below X percent health" effects but not enough for it to be a deal breaker.

[bringingyouthefuture]

Reckless Brigandine - Gaurdian's Plate - any and all Hide Armor.  Patinated Plate. They all look crazy!!!  Persoanl preferences - I am bad at power gaming so can't really add a lot to the discussion

Edited March 14, 2019 by bringingyouthefuture

[Boeroer]

@Tidefall

But it is not only overbearing. Both Hours and Tall Grass Grass knockdown.

Dude - Overbearing IS knockdown on crit. It's the name of the echantment.

 

Char with 2-hander is usually barb and he will be horrible penalized with low INT to speed up dot. And on crit procs crazy in his hands.

That HoSR is good on a Barb doesn't have any impact on the general statement that Tidefall is the weapon with the highest dps potential in the game. I said that there are situations with certain classes or builds where other weapons might be more useful than Tidefall. But actually Tidefall is very good with a Barb - because he can drain endurance from multiple enemies with Carnage while applying the wounding lash in an AoE. Only problem is that wounding doesn't trigger Bloodlust and Bloood Thirst if it kills the enemy.

 

Tall Grass also has hit to crit conversion and reach that is priceless for me in crowded melee.

Let's say you hit in 50% of cases then only 5% of your attacks will get converted to crits. Then add the fact that multiple sources of concersion don't stack additively but mutiplicatively and you will realize that that enchantment is not very powerful at all. Let's say you have Dirty Fighting (10%) + Vicious Fighting (10%) and also Durgan Steel (15%). Then adding Predatory from Tall Grass (10%) would only add 7% of total conversion chance. This is way less powerful than let's say +5 ACC or a raw dmg lash.

 

Tidefall doesn't need 3 INT to shine. It's also better at doing dps with normal INT (wounding stacks!). Low INT just improves its dps further.

It also depends which difficutly you are playing at. At PotD it's harder to crit eemies so Overbearing weapons will lose a bit of appeal while the higher DR of enemies favors Tidefall.

It also depends if you have other sources of CC in the party. If not then HoSR might indeed be more useful. But if you have for example a Storm Druid in the party the Overbearing enchantment won't make a lot of difference.

 

Besides the Draining of Tidefall you can also do nice tricks with it: for example on a ranger you can make sure the Predator's Sense is always up. Or you combine high INT with a Priest and Cleansing Flame (doubles DoT ticks).

 

All in all it's the superior weapon compared to HoSR, Tall Grass or whatever. My favorite weapon is Firebrand by the way.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Boeroer

[Daidre]

That might be a matter of taste though.

 

Which armor(s) do you mean?

 

I hate naked knees in Reckless Brigantine. AFAIR hide armor have them too. Only thing I can look at when I see char wearing it.

 

 

 

Let's say you have Dirty Fighting (10%) + Vicious Fighting (10%)

 You say it like I'd waste my party slot on Rogue.

 

And my priest running into melee with greatsword is last thing I need in life on PotD.

 

And I am not a dude(((

Edited March 14, 2019 by Daidre

[Boeroer]

Sorry. Dudette!

 

No, I'm sorry. I just assumed you are a dude because like 99% here are.

 

No, you didn't waste anything. Tall Grass has the additional advantage that you don't have to come too close. Can be invaluable for a rogue. Although I consider the rogue to be the weakest late game class in PoE.

 

Reckless Brigandine is Huana style. Most likely you don't like all huana outfits then (which would be fine)?

 

Hide armors are indeed terrible. I guess they wanted to ginve them some polynesian vibes. But in my opinion they look a bit ridiculous - like Cosplay armors.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Boeroer

[Daidre]

I guess Hours vs Tidefall heavily depends on party composition too. Closest thing to tank I have in this part of game is 2-weapon wielding Eder and auto hard-CC in AOE from Barb worth a lot more for me than additional DPS.  And it could be pretty reliable with priest buffs - I was knocking down adult drakes with this proc on lvl 5-6 more often then not on the way to Drake that sits on Tidefall.

 

P.S. I adore Huana dresses. And brigantine is ok on girls, but it is was Eder who was wearing it. Seeing him in chain skirt is bit to much for me(

Edited March 14, 2019 by Daidre

[asnjas]

Eder in recklass brigadine looks like middle aged dad with a beer gut who put on hawaiian shorts and sandles to mow the lawn sunday morning

Edited March 14, 2019 by asnjas

[Verde]

But a Nature Godlike Druid looks...Godlike in the Reckless Brigadine

[RedKnight]

I didn't say you did, did I?

Actually you did. Quite explicitly. Here is your direct quote: "That comparison was made to show that doing X for and extended amount of time doesn't necessarily mean that you are good at the game or understood how it works."

 

Again... I never claimed that I was good at the game. I certainly am more than willing to admit that unlike you, I don't have every single name and number memorized in my brain or an excel sheet. I was only claiming that my RPG experience alone is enough to show that I wasn't completely incompetent to be worthy of the comparisson to a headless chicken that is jumping to conclusions. Someone who has played these types of games countless times should be more than able to distinguish between an extremely powerful item and a completely useless item just by reading the description and trying the item out for a while. If such a person has a really hard time distingishing the two even after reading the description and trying the item out, I mantain that there is an objective problem here - regardless if the said item is actually powerful under more scrutiny.

 

First of all it's spot on. And the reason was to show that doing something a lot doesn't mean you understand it.

And this is where you are again creating an equivocation fallacy. Namely, there is a huge difference between just "doing something a lot" and having relevant experience. What you are doing here is similar to talking to a guy who has 20 years of experience with guns who continually manages to hit the target exactly where he wants to, but then he notices an issue with how one of the guns behaves, and then you dismissing his observation by saying: "Just because you've been shooting guns a lot, that doesn't mean you are good at it." While your statement is technicaly true from a purely epistemological point, it would be beyond silly to just call such an individual a headless chicken who is jumping to conclusions. And it would be even more silly to just dismiss his observations, because according to your excel sheet the gun handles just right in X,Y and Z situations, whereas the guy is talking about A, B and C situations.

 

The actual issue in our conversation here is that you seem to be a guy that is so heavily invested into every single number of every single item in this game that you seem to be unable to see a forest hidden behind a tree because of it. This is obvious since you seem to know every name, every number, every single and double digit about these items, yet cant seem to grasp a very simple point that I am making.

 

Either way, I am just an experienced roleplayer that has played some very complex roleplaying games with a lot of success without ever resorting to guides, exploits or excel sheets and I never had such a horrible experience with loot. I mantain that if you have to be an expert of your caliber to distinguish a good item from a worthless item, then there is a problem here, especially when a seasoned roleplayer finds it very hard to do so.

 

Another analogy could be my dad who writes a lot of emails but doesn't really understand how it works. I'm sure you can see the insult here as well. Don't victimize yourself.

How about you stop smelling your own farts just for a minute?

 

This doesn't make any sense. How would playing different RPGs qualify for trying out loot in Deadfire?

Dude, you are twisting my words. I tried every one of these items. Ok, some items I just put away, because I didnt specialize in the necessary skills to make use of it or the description just made it sound utterly useless (like the one where it gives you a boost only if your party members are knocked out). Again, there I had no clue that you can sacrifice your summons instead, so there's your explanation why I didn't try that one out. But every item that seemed even a bit useful or in the same ballpark of what I was already carrying I did try out. I just didn't do it for hours on end. I tried a couple of battles and after noticing that my party was performing worse than before, I reverted back to what I had before disappointed that another quest has passed and I am still carrying items that I had 100 hours ago.

 

Obviously you didn't try them out because else you would have noticed their power, right?

You mean the power that comes with certain conditionals that most of the times was either not practical or conducive to my playstyle? For example: I found a really nice shield (don't remember it's name or exact stats), but I know it grew in power the higher my ?metaphysics? skill was (cant remember). Now, yeah... brilliant item! The problem is, to me it was completely useless, because the character that had that skill maxed out just happened to be speced out for ranged combat and dual wielding.

 

Do you see the problem? Of course you do, but you'll just pretend to be dumb and argue with your own strawman while quoting things out of your excel sheet.

 

And before you tell me to respec, I NEVER respec in RPGs, because that goes against the core principal of what I think RPGs should strive for. Namely, I dont believe that you should be able to just spend some money and turn yourself from one type of character to a completely different type of character.

 

Since you only judged by description you jumped to conclusions. Can't see where that's incredibly silly.

Yeah, I think we're done here. I can only repeat 5 or 6 times that I did test out the items, before I just have to admit that I am dealing with a hopeless person here. Enjoy arguing with your own strawmen and equivocation fallacies. Edited March 14, 2019 by RedKnight

[Crucis]

It looks like OP wants gear useful only for tank. Disengagement immunitie useless, perception immunitie useless, might immunities worthless... My last char wears Skaen Robe, solo PotD +DD. Guess I am doing something wrong...

 

Affliction immunities are never useless.  I will say that I'm not so sure about having a disengagement immunity (or was it just a very high disengagement defense bonus?) on heavy armor doesn't strike me as the most  valuable thing going.  Not that there's anything wrong with disengagement buffs.  It just seems to me that a disengagement buff would be more valuable for someone wearing light or perhaps medium armor, rather than heavy armor.

 

I have some problems with the loot/booty in a very different way.  I have to admit that I kind of like the old school paradigms or tropes when it comes to fantasy stories and games.  And that carries over into items in the game for me.  I wish that there were more items that seemed aimed at different types of characters.  Not exactly specific classes, but did play to the tropes.  Such as staffs that feel like they're wizard staffs.  Or robes that felt like robes for, well, mostly wizards.  I suppose that one could argue that the Chromatic Staff is sorta-kinda a wizardly staff, but to me, not enough.  If it was a true wizardly staff, it should probably have the skill  that buffs up certain staff abilities be Arcana rather than Metaphysics.  

 

Also, a number of the proc'd special abilities seem to be a bit too corner cased and difficult to use.  Like the "True Love's Kiss" dagger which has its special proc'ing on stealth attacks, which basically means you can only use it once per encounter, and only if you have exceptional Stealth.  I think that it would have been better if the special was more like other specials where the size of the buff increased with the value of the skill.  At least this way, you don't end up with an exceptionally narrow set of circumstances where the ability can proc.

 

And honestly, I don't really like all the item upgrades.  I wish that the devs had spent that time and effort on creating additional unique weapons, armor, and shields, particularly weapons in types that are rather short in numbers.

Edited March 15, 2019 by Crucis

[Crucis]

Basically it's a bit like "One Time Players" vs. "Players who play the game multiple times". The one time player might want really impactful items since he plays the game only once and doesn't care about balanced loot. The player who wants to replay might find too OP items boring since they kind of narrow down your choices (if you like to powergame a bit).

 

This is a fair comment, Boeroer.  

[Verde]

 

I didn't say you did, did I?

Actually you did. Quite explicitly. Here is your direct quote: "That comparison was made to show that doing X for and extended amount of time doesn't necessarily mean that you are good at the game or understood how it works."

 

Again... I never claimed that I was good at the game. I certainly am more than willing to admit that unlike you, I don't have every single name and number memorized in my brain or an excel sheet. I was only claiming that my RPG experience alone is enough to show that I wasn't completely incompetent to be worthy of the comparisson to a headless chicken that is jumping to conclusions. Someone who has played these types of games countless times should be more than able to distinguish between an extremely powerful item and a completely useless item just by reading the description and trying the item out for a while. If such a person has a really hard time distingishing the two even after reading the description and trying the item out, I mantain that there is an objective problem here - regardless if the said item is actually powerful under more scrutiny.

 

First of all it's spot on. And the reason was to show that doing something a lot doesn't mean you understand it.

And this is where you are again creating an equivocation fallacy. Namely, there is a huge difference between just "doing something a lot" and having relevant experience. What you are doing here is similar to talking to a guy who has 20 years of experience with guns who continually manages to hit the target exactly where he wants to, but then he notices an issue with how one of the guns behaves, and then you dismissing his observation by saying: "Just because you've been shooting guns a lot, that doesn't mean you are good at it." While your statement is technicaly true from a purely epistemological point, it would be beyond silly to just call such an individual a headless chicken who is jumping to conclusions. And it would be even more silly to just dismiss his observations, because according to your excel sheet the gun handles just right in X,Y and Z situations, whereas the guy is talking about A, B and C situations.

 

The actual issue in our conversation here is that you seem to be a guy that is so heavily invested into every single number of every single item in this game that you seem to be unable to see a forest hidden behind a tree because of it. This is obvious since you seem to know every name, every number, every single and double digit about these items, yet cant seem to grasp a very simple point that I am making.

 

Either way, I am just an experienced roleplayer that has played some very complex roleplaying games with a lot of success without ever resorting to guides, exploits or excel sheets and I never had such a horrible experience with loot. I mantain that if you have to be an expert of your caliber to distinguish a good item from a worthless item, then there is a problem here, especially when a seasoned roleplayer finds it very hard to do so.

 

Another analogy could be my dad who writes a lot of emails but doesn't really understand how it works. I'm sure you can see the insult here as well. Don't victimize yourself.

How about you stop smelling your own farts just for a minute?

 

This doesn't make any sense. How would playing different RPGs qualify for trying out loot in Deadfire?

Dude, you are twisting my words. I tried every one of these items. Ok, some items I just put away, because I didnt specialize in the necessary skills to make use of it or the description just made it sound utterly useless (like the one where it gives you a boost only if your party members are knocked out). Again, there I had no clue that you can sacrifice your summons instead, so there's your explanation why I didn't try that one out. But every item that seemed even a bit useful or in the same ballpark of what I was already carrying I did try out. I just didn't do it for hours on end. I tried a couple of battles and after noticing that my party was performing worse than before, I reverted back to what I had before disappointed that another quest has passed and I am still carrying items that I had 100 hours ago.

 

Obviously you didn't try them out because else you would have noticed their power, right?

You mean the power that comes with certain conditionals that most of the times was either not practical or conducive to my playstyle? For example: I found a really nice shield (don't remember it's name or exact stats), but I know it grew in power the higher my ?metaphysics? skill was (cant remember). Now, yeah... brilliant item! The problem is, to me it was completely useless, because the character that had that skill maxed out just happened to be speced out for ranged combat and dual wielding.

 

Do you see the problem? Of course you do, but you'll just pretend to be dumb and argue with your own strawman while quoting things out of your excel sheet.

 

And before you tell me to respec, I NEVER respec in RPGs, because that goes against the core principal of what I think RPGs should strive for. Namely, I dont believe that you should be able to just spend some money and turn yourself from one type of character to a completely different type of character.

 

Since you only judged by description you jumped to conclusions. Can't see where that's incredibly silly.

Yeah, I think we're done here. I can only repeat 5 or 6 times that I did test out the items, before I just have to admit that I am dealing with a hopeless person here. Enjoy arguing with your own strawmen and equivocation fallacies.

I'll be fair and objective here. The mob can be nasty, but the people are good *casts Ryngrims Repulsive Visage to scatter crowd*

[Crucis]

I am just gonna throw this out there to give another perspective.  I hate games with a lot of super magic booty (or if you prefer magic items considered loot) .  I prefer having a game like Pillars where not all magic items make you a super hero, and the really good ones that work for your build or play style are minimal, where you sacrifice some stuff for other benefits.  I was depressed when they introduced all the soul bound magic items in POE1 - I preferred the slight upgrades you could give to your weapons, and the limitations you could upgrade.

 

I mean one of my favorite parts of the game is upgrading my favorite weapons that work for my character.  So! in all honesty I hope Obsidian regresses and moves away from all the super cool and powerful booty, and goes back to the stripped down loot in POE1 pre-DLC.   Just a counter point to the need for powerful items.  Perhaps, POE doesn't want to rely on inflated states for late game encounters.  I mean how boring to be get +8 stat weapons for the win that just requires you to equip it ... different strokes for different folks though …

 

 

A big problem I have with some Soulbounds is that you find them so late that it's very difficult to get them upgraded.  Also, some have upgrade requirements that are very difficult to achieve.  I'm also not terribly fond of Soulbounds that are really low level to start but you end up finding them later in the game when, for example, a Fine weapon seems rather underpowered.

 

I also don't like Soulbound weapons that don't seem appropriate for the class.  I guess that that's just another example of how I prefer items that fit traditional fantasy tropes rather than those that seem to run counter to those tropes.

[Waski]

@RedKnight Nobody knows everything, and gear in Deadfire sometimes requires metaknowledge and extensive testing across many classes.

For example:

Sun and Moon on mindstalker (soulblade)- heavy hiting raw damage all the time (soul annihilation)

Shatered Vengence on wizard- stacks of curse are limited to 5 for you but phantom can stack it separately and without limit

Hylea Talons on vanila/helwalker monk- selfdamage will make you genarate wounds as fast as nalpazca

 

BTW that shield scales with athletics too.

 

Some crazy stuff Boeroer pulled was even nerfed like some melting mobs trick with Watershaper's Focus.

 

Most of that kind of stuff you won't discover on first playthrough.

 

@Crucis

You don't need high stealth to utilize that dagger, just take Rakhan Field Boots and you can make attack from something like 6m.

Edited March 15, 2019 by Waski

[giftmefood]

I just finished the game for the first time and even though I'm generally positively inclined about the game, I have to say that this is probably the only RPG I ever played where the loot left me completely depressed (quite literally so). I scoured the Deadfire inch by inch, spending 180 hours trying to find some sweet loot that would bring a smile to my face - and yet most loot that I found (or tried to buy) came with HUGE negative conditions that you have to apply to yourself in order to get a small benefit.

 

It's like the devs went out of their way to troll me. "Oh I bet you'd want to have that +4 strength, wouldn't you? Well, you can only have it if you're carrying an injury! Oh, I bet you'd love to get that +30% damage boost to your attacks! Well, your party member has to be knocked down for you to get it!"

 

Seriously, whoever came up with that design should really stay as far away from loot as possible! I mean, I reached max level relatively fast (after only 30 or 40 hours). There was still over 100 hours of content out there, so I went exploring and all I found in those 100 hours were a few items that only marginally improved my character (like cape of greater deflection and Aeldys' sword). I went through all the expansions and only the Forgotten Sanctum had one interesting ring with 10% chance to throw a random affliction on critical hit and one interesting pet that gave me +5 accuracy. Not sure if these two things even improved my character that much. Whopde doo!

 

In PoE1 I started the game with 17 STR, 14 INT and 16 RES. By the end of PoE1 my strength was over 30, my INT was over 20 and my resolve was 25 without any buffs and any min-maxing. In PoE2, I started the game with the same character and barely managed to get my STR to 22 with only +1 to resolve, intelligence and perception. What happened with the Godly items from PoE1? Have I missed anything? I think I was pretty thorough, because I left no stone unturned.

 

Actually, OP has a point. 

 

The equipment in this game is so well-balanced that everything just feels samey. There's no true stand-out equipment that really amazes you. Now it's up to people to perceive whether if this is a good thing or not. 

 

For me, I prefer the balanced route while I do miss the 1.0 patch days where some equipment were hilariously broken and fun. Pre-nerfed frostseeker, wahai poraga, those pre nerfed on crit gear effects, those pre nerfed gear that gave huge crit chance... That was really fun but then the game was easy enough as is. 

 

I wish Obsidian went the more funner route of balancing. Rather than nerf the items, they should have made the encounters harder. That would have been the ideal but that route would have cost them alot more resources and time which they couldn't afford or aren't willing to pay for. I mean they are a business afterall so profit comes first. 

 

That said OP, I'm pretty sure there's a mod on nexus where the game is played at patch pre 1.1. You could get that and have a lot of fun with the really good items. But the bad thing is it will be very easy. Because even now with the nerfed items, the game is still pissy easy on potd. 

[Crucis]

@RedKnight Nobody knows everything, and gear in Deadfire sometimes requires metaknowledge and extensive testing across many classes.

For example:

Sun and Moon on mindstalker (soulblade)- heavy hiting raw damage all the time (soul annihilation)

Shatered Vengence on wizard- stacks of curse are limited to 5 for you but phantom can stack it separately and without limit

Hylea Talons on vanila/helwalker monk- selfdamage will make you genarate wounds as fast as nalpazca

 

BTW that shield scales with athletics too.

 

Some crazy stuff Boeroer pulled was even nerfed like some melting mobs trick with Watershaper's Focus.

 

Most of that kind of stuff you won't discover on first playthrough.

 

@Crucis

You don't need high stealth to utilize that dagger, just take Rakhan Field Boots and you can make attack from something like 6m.

 

I wasn't aware of that, but honestly, IMO, it seems like too narrow.  I think that I'd rather see it be more like this.  Have the special do X amount of Raw damage per 3 (?) seconds for X seconds (base) (maybe a pretty good base of 12 seconds?).  But also have this ability linked to stealth, where the better the Stealth, the longer the duration of the Raw damage.  This creates a situation that values strong Stealth, but is still usable with almost any amount of Stealth.  Otherwise, this dagger is no better than a generic magic dagger.

[Verde]

So I'll tell you one of my favorite combos- Eder with Bardatto's Luxury with Const. affliction immunity + Voidward and my Ancient MC casting Venombloom and Plague of Insects in the vicinity.

 

Also the Ancient works really well with +stride setups because Form of the Delemgan increases stride and creates immunity to Dex afflictions, e.g. Hobbled!, so cast Stranglefoot, Wicked Briars, and Thorn Wall, and run everywhere. Add in Nomads Brigadine and Von'ceth (plant hatchet) and your team synergizes as a swarm of superpowered plants, insects, and beasts.

Edited March 15, 2019 by Verde

[Boeroer]

Namely, there is a huge difference between just "doing something a lot" and having relevant experience.

Exactly!

 

What you are doing here is similar to talking to a guy who has 20 years of experience with guns who continually manages to hit the target exactly where he wants to, but then he notices an issue with how one of the guns behaves, and then you dismissing his observation by saying: "Just because you've been shooting guns a lot, that doesn't mean you are good at it."

In your example we would have a guy who has 20 years of experience with guns (we can't know if he was good at it because he didn't say. He just said that he was shooting with guns for 20 years - maybe he shot himself in the foot several times, maybe he's a master marksman - we don't know) but then he picked up a new gun named "The Deadfirerer" with has a new kind of optic - looks all slick - but he can't hit the target with it. Instead of asking around like "Do you guys also have problems with this Deadfirerer gun? I can't hit anything with it. What's the matter?" (which would have been too reasonalble for him) he goes off to an internet forum and rambles:

 

"The Deadfirerer kind of sucks! I have 20 years of experience with certain firearms but this gun leaves me literally depressed because when I look through the optics and fire I can't hit anything with it. It's crap! It's like the manufacturer is sitting in his office and goes like 'Oh, I bet you wish to hit anything with this gun but hehehe we build it crooked so that you miss all the time'. Seriously who designed this gun should step away from guns completely".

 

Then somebody else comes around. Kind of an expert with that Deadfirerer. He reads the thread title that seems to have been posted by a frustrated 5-year-old, then reads through that other ramblings and rolls his eyes. Like a lot. All around they go several times. Then he pulls himself together and tries to be somewhat reasonable despite the provocative and immature tone of the post and says:

 

"Nope dude. That's nonsense. It does not suck. You have to switch on the optic to see that red dot which indicates where you have to aim. I presume you didn't read the manual but just fired a couple of shots and then jumped to conclusions. Because if you would have read the manual that tells you to switch on the optic you would have had the chance to experience one of the most accurate guns I know of. The penetration isn't too good and the damage is mediocre. But it's superaccurate. Shooting different guns for 20 years doesn't necessarily make you an expert with this gun - especially if you don't pay attention to the details. So you maybe don't want to bring that argument here. Also - correct - the manual is kind of obscure and not well written because it was translated from Mandarin to English using Google Translator from 2010 - but once you know what to do it's a very good gun and does not suck".

 

And then the first guy goes on like:

 

"Yeah I read the manual completely! Actually I did read it kind of. But I didn't read all of it! Also I'm not a headless chicken! How dare you calling your mom a headless chicken which directly translates to me being a headless chicken? You sneaky insulter! Smell your own fart! Smell your own fart I said!".

 

And the second guy's like:

 

"Jeez the five year olds theses days wth their 20 years of gun experience..."

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2019 by Boeroer

[RedKnight]

 

Namely, there is a huge difference between just "doing something a lot" and having relevant experience.

Exactly!

 

What you are doing here is similar to talking to a guy who has 20 years of experience with guns who continually manages to hit the target exactly where he wants to, but then he notices an issue with how one of the guns behaves, and then you dismissing his observation by saying: "Just because you've been shooting guns a lot, that doesn't mean you are good at it."

In your example we would have a guy who has 20 years of experience with guns (we can't know if he was good at it because he didn't say. He just said that he was shooting with guns for 20 years - maybe he shot himself in the foot several times, maybe he's a master marksman - we don't know) but then he picked up a new gun named "The Deadfirerer" with has a new kind of optic - looks all slick - but he can't hit the target with it. Instead of asking around like "Do you guys also have problems with this Deadfirerer gun? I can't hit anything with it. What's the matter?" (which would have been too reasonalble for him) he goes off to an internet forum and rambles:

 

"The Deadfirerer kind of sucks! I have 20 years of experience with certain firearms but this gun leaves me literally depressed because when I look through the optics and fire I can't hit anything with it. It's crap! It's like the manufacturer is sitting in his office and goes like 'Oh, I bet you wish to hit anything with this gun but hehehe we build it crooked so that you miss all the time'. Seriously who designed this gun should step away from guns completely".

 

Then somebody else comes around. Kind of an expert with that Deadfirerer. He reads the thread title that seems to have been posted by a frustrated 5-year-old, then reads through that other ramblings and rolls his eyes. Like a lot. All around they go several times. Then he pulls himself together and tries to be somewhat reasonable despite the provocative and immature tone of the post and says:

 

"Nope dude. That's nonsense. It does not suck. You have to switch on the optic to see that red dot which indicates where you have to aim. I presume you didn't read the manual but just fired a couple of shots and then jumped to conclusions. Because if you would have read the manual that tells you to switch on the optic you would have had the chance to experience one of the most accurate guns I know of. The penetration isn't too good and the damage is mediocre. But it's superaccurate. Shooting different guns for 20 years doesn't necessarily make you an expert with this gun - especially if you don't pay attention to the details. So you maybe don't want to bring that argument here. Also - correct - the manual is kind of obscure and not well written because it was translated from Mandarin to English using Google Translator from 2010 - but once you know what to do it's a very good gun and does not suck".

 

And then the first guy goes on like:

 

"Yeah I read the manual completely! Actually I did read it kind of. But I didn't read all of it! Also I'm not a headless chicken! How dare you calling your mom a headless chicken which directly translates to me being a headless chicken? You sneaky insulter! Smell your own fart! Smell your own fart I said!".

 

And the second guy's like:

 

"Jeez the five year olds theses days wth their 20 years of gun experience..."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Like I said, I am done with you. It should be obvious to anyone who followed this conversation that you are only interested in smelling your own farts and are completely ignoring everything I write. Case and point, in your new analogy, it seems I haven't even read the item descriptions now... That's really funny. A few posts ago you were saying that I actually did do that. You also are claiming that I cant hit anything with the new weapon, yet... funny enough I steam roll through the game.

 

Either way... cool story, dude. Too bad it exists only in your immagination. Cheers!

Edited March 15, 2019 by RedKnight

[bugarup]

...well, lad's at least consistent -- as good at leaving as he is at reading. 

[Boeroer]

Like I said, I am done with you.

Well, obviously you are not...?

 

It should be obvious to anyone who followed this conversation that you are only interested in smelling your own farts

Don't know. If I look at the likes of every post (don't have another indicator other than the several posts that call you out) it seems that most people who read this thread didn't really get it.

 

and are completely ignoring everything I write.

Nananana *plugs ears like a five year old* - you mean like that? I wonder why I don't write about farts. I guess I left my anal phase without noticing... like 40 years ago...

 

Case and point, in your new analogy, it seems I haven't even read the item descriptions now... That's really funny. A few posts ago you were saying that I actually did do that. You also are claiming that I cant hit anything with the new weapon, yet... funny enough I steam roll through the game.

Those are analogies, not metaphors. You have to interpret them accordingly. Reading the manual translates to testing out the loot. Not reading the manual does not translate to not reading the descriptions. Not hitting with the gun means you can't see the point of the loot items. Steamrolling through the game proves as much as picking your nose in this case: where we talk about the quality of the loot and the ability to discover its power.

 

You can choose to victimize yourself over and over. Does it help selling your points? I don't think so.

 

Either way... cool story, dude. Too bad it exists only in your immagination.

So - your analogies actually all happened? Phew - that limits the variatey of analogies you can pull off, doesn't it? Or it speaks of a really weird life...

 

 

 

Cheers!

We'll see about that...

 

Edited March 15, 2019 by Boeroer

[Franknstein]

I maintain that the loot should scale up accordingly to keep you engaged. It's not fun when you are still fighting in the same gear as you had 100 hours ago. 

 

That's the culprit. See, Deadfire follows a complete opposite design philosophy from the "grind for new gear every X levels", which comes from the MMO games, where one has to be engaged in the grind for years, and ARPG's. There the grind is the game, and the gear, often times, substitutes for the build.

 

So, yeah, in Deadfire your first favored sword might carry you through all the game, no problem. A unique "low level" brigandine stays relevant at any level. Is it universally no fun? No way. Does the booty suck? Nope. It's just not your thing.

[Daidre]

Honestly, I never seen a point in acquiring deep knowledge about POE systems.

 

I mean, they are result of long and hard work of experienced game designer with a dream to make his own D&D that was coded into computer game by people who had really vague ideas about how it should work.

Add bug infestation and consequent months of patching on top and results are mind boggling.

 

Stacking rules are convoluted mess. Nothing works the way any rational person expect it to work. Lashes on weapon do not work like lashes from chanter. They affect some character damage sources but ignore others. Different dots either stack, prolong or replace each other. You can never say without testing whether some bonus multiplicative or additive.

Double dipping negative multiplier make any penalties more severe then they seem. Some acc bonuses stack, some are not but there is no strict typing like in D&D. 

 

Take grazes for example.

 

They where invented to avoid binary hit/miss from D&D and defended ad nauseam as concept on this very forum. But then some new people ask for TB, get it and start to whine how annoying it is to miss all the time or do pathetic damage.

 

Obsidian solution: lets remove grazes from the TB! completely.

 

Or spell grazes. They were a big thing in first POE so spells rarely completely wasted, but in Deadfire they are no longer exits, so all spell Accuracy calculation is different branch of rules comparing to usual attacks.

 

I think this is main reason why POE character building was never as popular like for D&D games. You can easily find  tons of old forums about builds for NWN or NWN 2 but all POE experts are here. There are about dozen of people by my rough estimate (in good days) and they are mostly busy with singing praises to one another and attacking anyone who dares criticize their brilliant game. 

Edited March 15, 2019 by Daidre