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Boeroer: I would agree with what you said about getting Tidefall. However, it just so happened that on my first and only playthrough, I happened to get it at lvl 6/7 without even knowing it was there, without metagaming or anything. I was searching for the fiery whatever the woman at the temple was looking for. Never switched to the Blade when I got it much, much later, as it didn't look any better. So, that was the point of view I was writing from.

Edited by xzar_monty

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Posted (edited)

And for a tank there are a number of items that increase various stats based on engagement. There are also some heavy armors that give you interesting abilities in melee.

Edited by Verde

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Posted (edited)

Why so much fuss about mediocre Tidefall? Hours of St. Rumbalt and Tall Grass are much better 2-handers and both sold nearby. You don't even need to fight anything to buy them.

Edited by Daidre

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But they kinda make discussion about getting endgame weapon on low level bit pointless. You do not need to kill any lizards for it no matter how non-trivial it is.

Edited by Daidre

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Posted (edited)

In PoE1 you can get the best large shield in the game in the first town :p

Edited by Verde

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Posted (edited)

Certainly there's no "Armor of Awesomeness" that you always want to put on and then go "trolololol I'm in godmode!!11!!".

 

This game (as PoE) is taylored towards build variety and OP items would destroy that.

 

But I will give you six examples (out of many, many more) that show items which can be very powerful (in the scope of a Non-Action-RPG):

 

  1. Grave Calling: Be a Beckoner, enchant it with Chilling Grave and kill your skeletons. You will proc a foe-only Chillfog for every dead skeleton (which will span two additional skeletons). Totally OP. Works very well with those items that give you stat bonuses once a party member goes down.
  2. Scordeo's Edge: enchant it with Adaptive. Enough said
  3. Sasha's Singing Scimitar: enchant it with Refreshing Finale and you'll turn the Empower Mechanic from "1/encounter & x/rest" into "1/encounter & ∞/rest".
  4. Magran's Favor + Sun and Moon grant all fire abilities +4 Power Level which is a huge bonus. Try a Paladin/Streetfighter with both and do FoD attacks...
  5. Rekvu's Scorched Cloak lets you stand in fire spells and not only be immune but even heal from the fire damage. Imagine a fire wizard who stands in his own Wall of Flame and nukes everything around with his Fireballs - not only burning foes but also healing himself.
  6. Grimoire of Vaporous Wizardry + Rekvu's Fractured Casque will give you up to +9 spell uses per encounter and immunity to interrupts (a caster's nemesis) if you knock out yourself with Necrotic Lance in between fights (for example). You trade a very minor injury with very little impact for a lot more spells and complete immunity to interrupts. You can even stand in your own Slicken spell and nothing will happen.

Some of this game's loot rewards creativity and ingenuity and yes, also a bit of knowledge about the game mechanics. If you have both you can do powerful, even game breaking things with some items. They don't shout it at you though. Your remark about disengagement shows that you didn't understand the combat mechanis very well yet. Hence the chance is high that you also didn't understand the loot and what it's capable of.

 

It doesn't matter how many RPGs you played by the way. My mom drives her car for over 45 years now - but she still drives like a freshly beheaded chicken... 

 

If you get "literally depressed" from the loot of a game you might want to consider dropping games at all. That - or to utilze less hyperbole. Because the loot is totally fine for this kind of game. It's rel. well balanced so that you don't get pushed to only use certain items or do certain builds. Items that scream "Pick me! Pick me! I'm the most powerful one" are boring.

 

Hence I call nonsense.

You seem to be completely missing the point. I am well aware that the game has numerous stuff with which you can create some crazy combinations. Hell, I've seen players beat world bosses on PotD naked. However being able to do some crazy **** with crappy gear does not refute my points in the slightest. I'm sure there are people who can beat Durodugan while at L1 with a toothpick on PotD, but that wouldn't make the said toothpick a good weapon, nor would such an attempt be a fun experience, now would it?

 

Also your mom analogy is completely stupid. I did finish the game and steamrolled pretty much every encounter with no problems - not to mention all other RPGs - so obviously I am not going through these types of games as a headless chicken. And if you think that this is an irrelevant piece of information, the only headless chicken here is you, mate.

 

Furthermore, I am not arguing for gear that would make you play the game in God mode. Ffs, did you even read a single word of what I wrote? I said three times already that I steamrolled almost every encounter. My issue is with how you can go through 90% of content and only marginally improve your characters. Now, as the other guy validly pointed out, this could be an issue with the pacing and not gear itself. Could be. Maybe... The fact of the matter is that on my playthrough most of my characters didn't switch much of their gear. For example I equipped Xoti with Miscreant's Leathers that I got in the first 2 hours, and she kept that armor to the very last minute of the game. So, it's not that there is no good armor in the game. It's more about when you get it and what you use 180 hours later and how much is that other gear better in comparison to what you already have. 

 

And yes, immunity to engagement was completely useless to me, because I never had any problems with breaking off from enemies due to engagement. I think one of my charcters died only once due to engagement and it was mostly because I was just too lazy to heal him before disengaging.

 

I maintain that the loot should scale up accordingly to keep you engaged. It's not fun when you are still fighting in the same gear as you had 100 hours ago. You maintain that there is no problem here, because X,Y and Z are examples of great loot and since you can beat Durodugan solo on PotD, that means I'm just playing the game as a headless chicken. 

 

I swear, your post is an epitome of having your head stuck so deep into your own farts that you can't even hear what the other person is saying.

Edited by RedKnight

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If you ever want to be taken seriously, do learn some manners.

So, the guy can call me a headless chicken and I'm supposed to just take it, because you happen to agree with his opinion? How about you guys stop smelling each other's farts?

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Right. I don't expect anybody to bother to respond to anything you write in here again. Which is fair enough.

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The problem is you're trying to come across as an expert when you clearly don't understand the nuances of PoE2 and why certain abilities are so powerful. The frequency is quality drops is quite low because they are set to certain enemies. But there are tons of build changing items to be had. For you to say Disengagement Immunity or the PL bonuses from Thicket Green are useless is just absurd.

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Posted (edited)

I didn't call you a headless chicken. I compared my mom to a headless chicken. That comparison was made to show that doing X for and extended amount of time doesn't necessarily mean that you are good at it or understood how it works. And thus saying "I did X several times" doesn't equal being an expert at X.

 

It doesn't mean that you are bad at it - but it also doesn't mean you are good. Basically it means not much in any case. Else I would club every discussion to death with that argument because when it comes to a **** measuring contest about who played more I will win most of the time. But since that's futile and my **** is enormous (for an Orlan anyways)... ;)

 

Never did I call you a headless chicken. So please keep it down. Maybe improve reading comprehension a bit before throwing around accusations.

 

I'm also not missing the point at all.

 

Point was: "Loot sucks" (giving non-convincing examples)

Counterpoint: 'Loot does not suck" (giving actual examples).

 

So far your reasoning doesn't hold up very well and starting to insult people will not help it.

Edited by Boeroer
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Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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Boeroer: I would agree with what you said about getting Tidefall. However, it just so happened that on my first and only playthrough, I happened to get it at lvl 6/7 without even knowing it was there, without metagaming or anything. I was searching for the fiery whatever the woman at the temple was looking for. Never switched to the Blade when I got it much, much later, as it didn't look any better. So, that was the point of view I was writing from.

Then you were very very lucky. :) I mean you would have to start with a rogue who has the right cultural background and maybe (?) also get the gloves by accident and skill mechanics consequently.

 

@Tidefall: the fuss about Tidefall is that it's the weapon with the highest potential dps in the game. Especially on PotD. On-crit effects like on HoSR or Tall Grass are nice but unrelible against tough enemies. Tidefall always delivers. Wounding is a raw multiplicative dmg bonus which scales with MIG and gets calculated pre DR. There is nothing better in terms of dps (except Firebrand on a Barb).

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Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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Boeroer: I would agree with what you said about getting Tidefall. However, it just so happened that on my first and only playthrough, I happened to get it at lvl 6/7 without even knowing it was there, without metagaming or anything. I was searching for the fiery whatever the woman at the temple was looking for. Never switched to the Blade when I got it much, much later, as it didn't look any better. So, that was the point of view I was writing from.

Then you were very very lucky. :) I mean you would have to start with a rogue who has the right cultural background and maybe (?) also get the gloves by accident and skill mechanics consequently.

 

Hired rogue from Gilded Vale + Mechanics bonus from Caed Nua. I think that's it. Can't be definite about the gloves.

 

Given that there was no rogue NPC available early on (had no idea where the Devil of Caroc was), a hired rogue was the best option, since I'd had enough of deliberately triggering chest-traps I couldn't disable. Mechanics bonus from Caed Nua was also among the most reasonable ones early on. I remember it took me a while to realise that it would have also been better to quickly build that place which provided you with regular "spell components", i.e. stuff you could use in enchantments.

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Posted (edited)

I didn't call you a headless chicken. I compared my mom to a headless chicken. That comparison was made to show that doing X for and extended amount of time doesn't necessarily mean that you are good at it or understood how it works. And thus saying "I did X several times" doesn't equal being an expert at X.

 

It doesn't mean that you are bad at it - but it also doesn't mean you are good. Basically it means not much in any case. Else I would club every discussion to death with that argument because when it comes to a **** measuring contest about who played more I will win most of the time. But since that's futile and my **** is enormous (for an Orlan anyways)... ;)

 

Never did I call you a headless chicken. So please keep it down. Maybe improve reading comprehension a bit before throwing around accusations.

 

I'm also not missing the point at all.

 

Point was: "Loot sucks" (giving non-convincing examples)

Counterpoint: 'Loot does not suck" (giving actual examples).

 

So far your reasoning doesn't hold up very well and starting to insult people will not help it.

1. I wasn't making an argument that I am good at the game to begin with nor did I say that I understand how every item works, so thanks for proving that you missed the point yet again!

2. Since your headless chicken comparison is completely off the mark, I don't see any other reason for its inclusion here other than to berate me. And just because you are sneakily hiding your insults behind weasily constructed analogies, doesn't mean that I don't see what you're doing.

3. The reason why even brought up my RPG experience into the argument in the first place, was because you accused me of jumping to conclusions without testing the equipment - which was not only false, but also incredibly silly thing to say considering my RPG portfolio. The point being that someone with decades of RPG games behind his belt should be able to figure things out without too much hassle, so there might be some problem with how the information is presented even if you are 100% right and PoE2 has the best loot ever made in any game ever! You know, just something to consider... Case and point, you mentioned how you can stack bonuses by sacrificing your summons instead of party members for one of the items I mentioned, yet nowhere in the description of the item does it say that. So basically, you have to extensively test how the item works to figure it out - or just stumble upon it by accident - none of which should be a requirement to recognize a truly remarkable item for what it is (at least not in my book).

4. And yet again, you avoid my my point, which is not about me being good at the game, it is not about there not being any good gear (because I wouldn't be able to steamroll everything if there wasn't)... it's ABOUT HOW AND WHEN YOU GET CERTAIN GEAR AND HOW MUCH (NOT) BETTER THE END-GAME GEAR IS IN COMPARISSON TO WHAT YOU CAN GET IN THE FIRST 30 HOURS.

 

With that being said, yes there probably are some items that I classified as worthless, but which are actually very powerful. But if I wrongly evaluated such items, it's only because the game does a poor job at explaining what the item actually does, which is still a problem. Case and point, nowhere does it say that you can sacrifice summons instead of your party members, which I didn't know and I see no way how I could have known about it without extensive testing.

Edited by RedKnight

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This topic is funny.

 

You should definitely take Obsidian to court for giving you depression! You will win... nothing.

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nowt

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Posted (edited)

@Tidefall: but target needs to be alive for dot to be active and make noticeable difference. In realty, most enemies you can reliably hit will not live long enough even on PotD for all this extra DPS to be applied and instant +0.5 crit outperforms. 

Edited by Daidre

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Posted (edited)

Nope. A crit does mere +50% base damage in PoE. For a two hander (other than Concelhaut's Parasitic Staff, Citzal's Spirit Lance, Firebrand and Llengrath's Wardning Staff an other summoned weapons wich have higher base dmg) that's only 8.5 points of damage which has to go through DR. 17 with Annihilation. And the more dmg bonuses you accumulate the less impact a crit has on your dps (percentage wise).

Wounding not only scales its multiplicative (!) raw (!) lash (which gets calculated pre (!) DR) with MIG (so 25% turns into 31% with 18 MIG for examle) but also the overall amount of DoT will not get reduced by low INT. It just gets squeezed together. So with low INT you will do more dps. With a char with low INT you can apply the wounding damage in under 3 secs, completely ignore DR and get a multiplicative effect which profits from all dmg bonuses (inlcuding crits and quality enchantments and even stuff like Two Handed Style, Sneak Attack etc.) - where a crit is just an additive bonus that's in line and separeated from other addtive dmg bonuses (they don't influence each other).

 

With priest for example you can get 40+ MIG which will boost the multiplicate dmg from 25% to 47.5%. If you then do a hit with  a superb Tidefall you will deal 17*(1+0.9+0.45)*1.475 = ~59 dmg on a hit while a superb Rumbalt would do 17*(1+0.9+45) = ~40 on a hit. On a crit it would be 71.5 vs  57. Against a target with 0 DR...

 

Even with only 18 MIG you get ~38 vs. ~29 on hit and ~49 vs. ~46 on crit vs 0 DR.

 

With every dmg bonus you add (Two Handed Style, Savage Attack etc.) the gap widens. Also keep in mind that you won't do crits all the time.

That's the reason why Tidefall is the weapon with he highest dps potential in the game (depends if you can get to 0 recovery with Tidefall. If not then it's Drawn in Spring). I don't say that Overbearing isn't useful. It's hard to measure its effect on dps though. Against high defense enemies with lots of DR (like Dragons) Tidefall is always superior though. Against low defense mobs an Overbearing weapon may be more useful (see Barb+Carnage+Overbearing etc.).

 

 

This is not true in certain cases - for example Barbarian with Firebrand (25 base dmg + Annihilating + Blood Thirst). Here a crit outperforms almost anything else.

Edited by Boeroer
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Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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You people and your scientific knowledge of Pillars :p

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Posted (edited)

1. I wasn't making an argument that I am good at the game to begin with nor did I say that I understand how every item works

I didn't say you did, did I?

 

2. Since your headless chicken comparison is completely off the mark, I don't see any other reason for its inclusion here other than to berate me. And just because you are sneakily hiding your insults behind weasily constructed analogies, doesn't mean that I don't see what you're doing.

First of all it's spot on. And the reason was to show that doing something a lot doesn't mean you understand it. Thus you shouldn't put "I did play a lot of RPGs" as an argument. Since it proves nothing. If you want to take it as a "sneakily hidden insult" then so be it. Another analogy could be my dad who writes a lot of emails but doesn't really understand how it works. I'm sure you can see the insult here as well. Don't victimize yourself.

 

3. The reason why even brought up my RPG experience into the argument in the first place, was because you accused me of jumping to conclusions without testing the equipment - which was not only false, but also incredibly silly thing to say considering my RPG portfolio.

This doesn't make any sense. How would playing different RPGs qualify for trying out loot in Deadfire? Obviously you didn't try them out because else you would have noticed their power, right? Since you only judged by description you jumped to conclusions. Can't see where that's incredibly silly. The only things that are truly silly are your provocative thread title, your wrong examples and your hyperbole.

 

You might have a point that Deadfire doesn't communicate things very well. I'm the last one who would disagree. Descriptions are terrible. But that doesn't mean the loot "kinda sucks". It does not. And you would have realized had you tried things out.

 

If you wanted to make some points around the presentation and the obscureness of loot description then another title would have served you well. Also another apporach with making your points would have served you better. Let's recall your statements:

 

most loot that I found (or tried to buy) came with HUGE negative conditions that you have to apply to yourself in order to get a small benefit.

This is either plain wrong, extreme hyperbole or you did only find like 5 items... Not a reasonable argument and has nothing to do with what you describe in your latest posts where you switch from "loots sucks" to "loots doesn't get explained well".

 

It's like the devs went out of their way to troll me. "Oh I bet you'd want to have that +4 strength, wouldn't you? Well, you can only have it if you're carrying an injury! Oh, I bet you'd love to get that +30% damage boost to your attacks! Well, your party member has to be knocked down for you to get it!"

Wrong examples that don't lead to anything other than the impression that you can't be taken seriously.

 

Seriously, whoever came up with that design should really stay as far away from loot as possible!

*groan* Or she/he did a really good job but just the description isn't as clear as it could be?

 

In PoE1 I started the game with 17 STR, 14 INT and 16 RES. By the end of PoE1 my strength was over 30, my INT was over 20 and my resolve was 25 without any buffs and any min-maxing. In PoE2, I started the game with the same character and barely managed to get my STR to 22 with only +1 to resolve, intelligence and perception

That's funny because in PoE no items' stat bonuses stack (besides from weapons) while in Deadfire they all stack. Apart from that: do only stat bonuses make loot good for you? Because we hadn't things like Blade Feast, Hand Mortars and Blade Cascade in PoE which is much more potent than most stuff you can find there.

 

Your whole opening post is a succession of hyperbole or wrong statements. You could simply have taken a reasonable route to point out things that you didn't like. Instead you chose the provocative one.

Edited by Boeroer
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Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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I am just gonna throw this out there to give another perspective.  I hate games with a lot of super magic booty (or if you prefer magic items considered loot) .  I prefer having a game like Pillars where not all magic items make you a super hero, and the really good ones that work for your build or play style are minimal, where you sacrifice some stuff for other benefits.  I was depressed when they introduced all the soul bound magic items in POE1 - I preferred the slight upgrades you could give to your weapons, and the limitations you could upgrade.

 

I mean one of my favorite parts of the game is upgrading my favorite weapons that work for my character.  So! in all honesty I hope Obsidian regresses and moves away from all the super cool and powerful booty, and goes back to the stripped down loot in POE1 pre-DLC.   Just a counter point to the need for powerful items.  Perhaps, POE doesn't want to rely on inflated states for late game encounters.  I mean how boring to be get +8 stat weapons for the win that just requires you to equip it ... different strokes for different folks though ...

Edited by bringingyouthefuture
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“How do you 'accidentally' kill a nobleman in his own mansion?"

"With a knife in the chest. Or, rather, a pair of knives in the chest...”

The Final Empire, Mistborn Trilogy

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Posted (edited)

Basically it's a bit like "One Time Players" vs. "Players who play the game multiple times". The one time player might want really impactful items since he plays the game only once and doesn't care about balanced loot. The player who wants to replay might find too OP items boring since they kind of narrow down your choices (if you like to powergame a bit).

Edited by Boeroer
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Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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Can we talk about how ugly some of the best armor is?  Honestly I can't even equip some stuff because it makes my characters look bad ... :w00t:

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“How do you 'accidentally' kill a nobleman in his own mansion?"

"With a knife in the chest. Or, rather, a pair of knives in the chest...”

The Final Empire, Mistborn Trilogy

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