So... the loot kinda sucks

[RedKnight]

I just finished the game for the first time and even though I'm generally positively inclined about the game, I have to say that this is probably the only RPG I ever played where the loot left me completely depressed (quite literally so). I scoured the Deadfire inch by inch, spending 180 hours trying to find some sweet loot that would bring a smile to my face - and yet most loot that I found (or tried to buy) came with HUGE negative conditions that you have to apply to yourself in order to get a small benefit.

 

It's like the devs went out of their way to troll me. "Oh I bet you'd want to have that +4 strength, wouldn't you? Well, you can only have it if you're carrying an injury! Oh, I bet you'd love to get that +30% damage boost to your attacks! Well, your party member has to be knocked down for you to get it!"

 

Seriously, whoever came up with that design should really stay as far away from loot as possible! I mean, I reached max level relatively fast (after only 30 or 40 hours). There was still over 100 hours of content out there, so I went exploring and all I found in those 100 hours were a few items that only marginally improved my character (like cape of greater deflection and Aeldys' sword). I went through all the expansions and only the Forgotten Sanctum had one interesting ring with 10% chance to throw a random affliction on critical hit and one interesting pet that gave me +5 accuracy. Not sure if these two things even improved my character that much. Whopde doo!

 

In PoE1 I started the game with 17 STR, 14 INT and 16 RES. By the end of PoE1 my strength was over 30, my INT was over 20 and my resolve was 25 without any buffs and any min-maxing. In PoE2, I started the game with the same character and barely managed to get my STR to 22 with only +1 to resolve, intelligence and perception. What happened with the Godly items from PoE1? Have I missed anything? I think I was pretty thorough, because I left no stone unturned.

[Verde]

What equipment are you using endgame? The great stuff is typically spread out and harder to get but there a bunch of really powerful items. There are a few exceptions that can be gotten early. Bounties have good gear too.

 

With high Str did you buy the 2H Axe in Dunnage? Did you find Willbreaker? Those are two powerful weapons.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Verde

[bringingyouthefuture]

With respect please call it booty in this game ...

[Purudaya]

Lord Darryn's Voulge, Modwyr, all of the sabres, Rust's poignard, willbreaker, frostseeker, kitchen stove, red hand, dragon's dowry, devil of caroc breastplate, chromoprismatic quarterstaff, whale of a wand, nemnok's cloak, ajamuut's stalking cloak, pukestabber, assassin's slippers, boltcatchers, and tuotilo's palm are all great items with zero or very little downside (granted some of them are for sale and don't qualify as loot per se). For the most part, there are only a few items where the negatives outweigh the positives or are too conditional to be of much use imo. I'm more irritated at items with special abilities that only trigger on <5% of crits or something.

 

I do wish there were more uniques, though. There are still too many weapon types with a disappointing lack of variety.

[Waski]

Most of the +STATS comes from permanent and temporary bonuses. And it's a lot (+4 permanent, +12 pool in Outcast Respite, +4 prostitute boon, +2 shrine blessing). Some nice stuff is on faction avenging ships (not bad armor and shield especially), on Fyrgist there is nice club and one nice rapier hided in Neketaka.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Waski

[bugarup]

I love loot booty in this game, it's so much more interesting than plain +N to <attribute>. Whenever I get a new shiny it instantly gets me thinking, "Ooooh, I wonder what build I could stick this to" and when I sorted my hoard right after doing all DLCs side by side my biggest wish was for the Watcher to have one hundred arms and ten heads to wield all the weapons and wear all the bling at once. 

[Boeroer]

Frankly: the opening post is nonsense - but I don't want to waste my time with listing all the "loot" that doesn't fit the OP's description.

 

Two examples though: 

 

 

Oh, I bet you'd love to get that [stat boost]! Well, your party member has to be knocked down for you to get it!"

 

 

[  ] You tried that item out

[  ] You then realized that it works with summons

[x] Oh, you jumped to conclusions

 

 

Oh I bet you'd want to have that [bonus], wouldn't you? Well, you can only have it if you're carrying an injury!

 

[  ] You tried that item out

[  ] You then realized how powerful it is to a) be immune to interrupts or b) getting healed by fire damage or c) being immune to CON afflictions

[  ] You then realized how easy it is to self-induce a minor injury that does only have very little impact on your stats (like Acute Rash)

[x] Oh, you jumped to conclusions

 

[x] You gave examples of enchantments that don't even exist in the game which totally does not help to sell your point.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Boeroer

[Waski]

Some of the stuff require a little bit of knowledge to be used super effectively, like frosty saber(forgot the name) on chanter or ring of focused flame etc. Next playthrough gonna be better

Edited March 14, 2019 by Waski

[RedKnight]

Frankly: the opening post is nonsense - but I don't want to waste my time with listing all the "loot" that doesn't fit the OP's description.

 

Two examples though: 

 

 

Oh, I bet you'd love to get that [stat boost]! Well, your party member has to be knocked down for you to get it!"

 

 

[  ] You tried that item out

[  ] You then realized that it works with summons

[x] Oh, you jumped to conclusions

 

 

Oh I bet you'd want to have that [bonus], wouldn't you? Well, you can only have it if you're carrying an injury!

 

[  ] You tried that item out

[  ] You then realized how powerful it is to a) be immune to interrupts or b) getting healed by fire damage or c) being immune to CON afflictions

[  ] You then realized how easy it is to self-induce a minor injury that does only have very little impact on your stats (like Acute Rash)

[x] Oh, you jumped to conclusions

 

[x] You gave examples of enchantments that don't even exist in the game which totally does not help to sell your point.

1. Actually, I did try them and saw no benefits whatsoever for the vast majority of them. I didn't do extensive testing with save/loading various scenarios, if that's what you mean, but I think that if you need to extensively test your gear to see if it's any good, you have a huge problem regardless! There were certain situations where I saw how some items might have been useful (like the armor specifically designed to protect me against fire), but those situations are rare and switching my gear that was optimized to be universally good for any situation would just be a waste of time, because there are usually other faster ways to boost myself (like potions and food). So why waste hours upon hours equpping and unequipping gear, loading various scenarios and testing the gear out when I can just drink a potion in 2 seconds and get the same effect while keeping my universal gear on me? Besides, I was steamrolling pretty much every encounter (except world bosses).

2. Sorry for not having the game open right before me and having to give examples from my memory, but my point still stands. I don't see how me not remembering exact examples refutes anything I said? The fact of the matter is that many items have very weak boosts like 10% chance of getting something if you score a hit or a crit, or just bull**** with negative side effects that completely kills any point of using it in the first place. Like I said, I am not into min-maxing and I usually like to have gear that is optimized - not gear that is useful in one or two specific situations, but is otherwise completely useless. Like that mask that gives you 50 deflection against non-velied attacks. Tried it - saw absolutely no benefit to it in for 90% encounters, so I removed it and used a simple helm that gives me +1 resolve and +1 perception, since unfortunately the game's loot is so weak.

3. Besides, when a veteran RPG player like myself (who played pretty much every RPG worth mentioning) ends his playthrough feeling completely depressed by the crappy loot, you have to admit that there is at least a bit of a problem there - even if I am wrong.

4. If you can just kill your own summoned monster and get the boost, then that item would be very powerful - yes. But how was I supposed to know that? You don't think the game should have done a better job at explaining what the item does then? As for self-induced minor injuries. No, I never figured out how the injury system works. I thought the injuries were random. I guess, I could give that item another try on my second playthrough.

Edited March 14, 2019 by RedKnight

[xzar_monty]

The OP is right in that there's a whole lot of strangely indifferent loot in the game. He's also probably right in that there is no real killer loot in the game (no Robe of Vecna, to compare to BG2). Whether this second point is good or not is of course subjective.

 

I have no complaints about the loot, although I do feel that both PoE and Deadfire are a bit too balanced in the sense that most equipment ends up being fairly indifferent. The strange this is that this doesn't matter: not having good gear won't hinder you, and good gear doesn't really help you that much.

[Verde]

I'd argue there is some killer loot tho -

 

Spine of Thicket Green for example completely improves any Druid or Universalist build.

 

Nomad Brigadine has Disengage immunity. Skaens robe is insane and has either Might or Per affliction immunity. There are bunch of mid to late game heavy armors that change the game for tanks. Eye of Wael and White White Mask add +3PL to illusions plus other nifty benefits. There are a bunch of weapons or gear that scales with skills too. The list goes on. The special loot doesnt drop like Diablo but it's there and what TC says about tradeoffs is just plain wrong. He/she must be thinking about a few very specific cases and generalizing.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Verde

[RedKnight]

I'd argue there is some killer loot tho -

 

Spine of Thicket Green for example completely improves any Druid or Universalist build.

 

Nomad Brigadine has Disengage immunity. Skaens robe is insane and has either Might or Per affliction immunity. There are bunch of mid to late game heavy armors that change the game for tanks. Eye of Wael and White White Mask add +3PL to illusions plus other nifty benefits. There are a bunch of weapons or gear that scales with skills too. The list goes on. The special loot doesnt drop like Diablo but it's there and what TC says about tradeoffs is just plain wrong. He/she must be thinking about a few very specific cases and generalizing.

I wouldn't call that killer loot. Disengage immunity is worthless. Skaen's robe was in my inventory and I never saw any benefits to using it. Like, might or perception affliction immunity is almost worthless considering that the robe offers only 6 or 7 protection if I remember correctly. Even Aloths robe that he wears in the beginning of the game has better boosts once you upgrade it. +3PL to illusions... worthless. Weapons and gear that scales with skills is only useful if you have specialized in those skills. If you haven't they are useless. Again... stupid conditionals completely ruins what could otherwise be a great item. You have to respec or use meta-knowledge to make any use of those items (and due to roleplaying reasons, I never respec. I just find the whole idea of paying cash to go from illiterate jock to an educated historian completely antithetical to what an RPG should be striving for). 

Edited March 14, 2019 by RedKnight

[Daidre]

I think loot is rather good in the Deadfire comparing to a lot of modern day RPG. There is also unparalleled synergy with character builds.

But topic starter hit level cap pretty early and it completely destroyed any difficulty this game has. When most of your fights end after "left click and wait 30s" all cool legendary weapons tend to look the same. 

Encounter design was my main issue - only Fampyrs pose any danger until you figure them out, but most of the endgame fights is too tame for lvl 20 party.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Daidre

[RedKnight]

I think loot is rather good in the Deadfire comparing to a lot of modern day RPG. There is also unparalleled synergy with character builds.

But topic starter hit level cap pretty early and it completely destroyed any difficulty this game has. When most of your fights end after "left click and wait 30s" all cool legendary weapons tend to look the same. 

Encounter design was my main issue - only Fampyrs pose any danger until you figure them out, but most of the endgame fights is too tame for lvl 20 party.

Valid point. I think that might have played into why I felt the loot was so weak. I also got a death-knight's heavy plate armor early on that I used for the rest of the game. Every other armor felt incredibly weak in comparison. I also repaired my old sword from Caed Nua early on and used it for the vast majority of the game. Only Aeldy's sword was better, but I got that in the last 10-20 hours. So basically, my character was pretty much decked out early on. Imagine going through 100 hours of content and only finding 1 sword that is only marginally better than what you already have. That sucks, but it could be just due to the pacing of the game.

[Verde]

Disengagement immunity is worthless? Now I've heard it all. I dont know how you're an expert after one playthrough, but I can assure you, it's a very useful ability.

 

If you want to vent that's fine, but don't expect people to just lay down over your generalizations, people who know the game in and out after many playthroughs. Most of what you're saying is just frustration over having to plan specifically for gear, which is learned in time.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Verde

[AeonsLegend]

The game has so many free buffs to your character you're going to be far beyond OP in the end game. There's even a cave that gets you free +2 to all your stats. Resting bonusses and food are also more powerful, then you have potions and drugs and that stuff all stacks. Take some inspirations and you can get far beyond 30 in the stat department. It's actually a bit silly how strong you get. Hell you don't even need equipment.

Edited March 14, 2019 by AeonsLegend

[xzar_monty]

I'm going on a bit of a tangent here, but I believe Obsidian's difficulty with loot can be captured pretty well with this example.

 

In PoE, there's this sword that you even have a kind of a quest for and that you can build once you explore the dungeon below your keep. The thing is, though, that the sword is not worth the effort and you can actually get a (little bit) better big sword early on dead easy from a fire drake that you almost can't lose to if you know how to play at all. And that sword is going to be the two-handed piercing/slashing weapon of choice for the rest of the game, DLCs included. D'oh.

 

To me, this screams faulty design.

Edited March 14, 2019 by xzar_monty

[xzar_monty]

I'd argue there is some killer loot tho -

 

Spine of Thicket Green for example completely improves any Druid or Universalist build.

 

As I brought up the term killer loot and you were therefore kind of responding to me, I'll just point out that you could be perfectly right about this piece of equipment: I have zero experience with druids in the game (ok, I had the fish guy with me for like five minutes). So, I made my comment with less than perfect knowledge of all the permutations.

[Boeroer]

Certainly there's no "Armor of Awesomeness" that you always want to put on and then go "trolololol I'm in godmode!!11!!".

 

This game (as PoE) is taylored towards build variety and OP items would destroy that.

 

But I will give you six examples (out of many, many more) that show items which can be very powerful (in the scope of a Non-Action-RPG):

 

1. Grave Calling: Be a Beckoner, enchant it with Chilling Grave and kill your skeletons. You will proc a foe-only Chillfog for every dead skeleton (which will span two additional skeletons). Totally OP. Works very well with those items that give you stat bonuses once a party member goes down.
2. Scordeo's Edge: enchant it with Adaptive. Enough said
3. Sasha's Singing Scimitar: enchant it with Refreshing Finale and you'll turn the Empower Mechanic from "1/encounter & x/rest" into "1/encounter & ∞/rest".
4. Magran's Favor + Sun and Moon grant all fire abilities +4 Power Level which is a huge bonus. Try a Paladin/Streetfighter with both and do FoD attacks...
5. Rekvu's Scorched Cloak lets you stand in fire spells and not only be immune but even heal from the fire damage. Imagine a fire wizard who stands in his own Wall of Flame and nukes everything around with his Fireballs - not only burning foes but also healing himself.
6. Grimoire of Vaporous Wizardry + Rekvu's Fractured Casque will give you up to +9 spell uses per encounter and immunity to interrupts (a caster's nemesis) if you knock out yourself with Necrotic Lance in between fights (for example). You trade a very minor injury with very little impact for a lot more spells and complete immunity to interrupts. You can even stand in your own Slicken spell and nothing will happen.

Some of this game's loot rewards creativity and ingenuity and yes, also a bit of knowledge about the game mechanics. If you have both you can do powerful, even game breaking things with some items. They don't shout it at you though. Your remark about disengagement shows that you didn't understand the combat mechanis very well yet. Hence the chance is high that you also didn't understand the loot and what it's capable of.

 

It doesn't matter how many RPGs you played by the way. My mom drives her car for over 45 years now - but she still drives like a freshly beheaded chicken... 

 

If you get "literally depressed" from the loot of a game you might want to consider dropping games at all. That - or to utilze less hyperbole. Because the loot is totally fine for this kind of game. It's rel. well balanced so that you don't get pushed to only use certain items or do certain builds. Items that scream "Pick me! Pick me! I'm the most powerful one" are boring.

Hence I call nonsense.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Boeroer

[Waski]

It looks like OP wants gear useful only for tank. Disengagement immunitie useless, perception immunitie useless, might immunities worthless... My last char wears Skaen Robe, solo PotD +DD. Guess I am doing something wrong...

[Boeroer]

I'm going on a bit of a tangent here, but I believe Obsidian's difficulty with loot can be captured pretty well with this example.

 

In PoE, there's this sword that you even have a kind of a quest for and that you can build once you explore the dungeon below your keep. The thing is, though, that the sword is not worth the effort and you can actually get a (little bit) better big sword early on dead easy from a fire drake that you almost can't lose to if you know how to play at all. And that sword is going to be the two-handed piercing/slashing weapon of choice for the rest of the game, DLCs included. D'oh.

 

To me, this screams faulty design.

Actually The Blade of the Endless Paths and Tidefall are pretty equal in terms of dps (speed vs. wounding and +5 DR bypass vs dual damage). And since the Blade has Marking it's the perfect weapon for a support/dps Paladin. Ever tried one with Inspiring Exhortation, Coodinated Attacks and Blade of the Endless Paths? Stackable +30 ACC for you buddy plus good dps on your part. It's great actually. Not for every build though. But that's the beauty - not a problem - in my opinion. 

 

Also you need a ton of meta knowledge to find Tidefall. You need min mechanics of 10 and have to scout in a certain area. And you have to kill Cail the Silent at low levels which is NOT trivial. So you need to bring a char with max mechanics and gloves of manipulation (you need meta knowledge about the rndom loot tables as well) and you need to know where it's hidden and you have to have a party which is capable of defeating Cail. That's far from dead easy. Getting BotEP is a bigger hassle, yes - but calling stuff like gaining that meta knowledge and beating Cail at low levels "dead easy" is also extreme hyperbole and doesn't help this discussion. 

 

This again shows that you need to be a bit crafty in order to appreciate loot in PoE or Deadfire. This doesn't make the loot bad though. Its benefits are just not plain obvious. 

Edited March 14, 2019 by Boeroer

[Phenomenum]

Oookay, now we know something interesting about Boeroer's mom.

[Boeroer]

High five(?) Ma!

[Daidre]

 

 

This again shows that you need to be a bit crafty in order to appreciate loot in PoE or Deadfire.

 

But POE has enough challenge even for experienced player with all hard CC thrown at you. Deadfire on PotD is so easy that difference between amazingly inventive build and not-intentionally botched character is minimal is the hand of any player who understands how attack bonus, armor and defenses work. Even on first run when all your metagaming knowledge comes from first POE. 

 

It is game where you need respec to change available spells of your cleric/druid! Or you never need it because there are 1-2 not useless spells on every PL.

 

There is brilliant character building in the Deadfire but and it mostly excel exercise without any practical application. 

 

Add rogue or monk to any martial and he will start blowing everything up in sea of damage with couple of buffs casted by prepared AI. Program paladin to heal him with <50% HP and it will take megaboss to actually wake up and start playing the game.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Daidre

[Boeroer]

Which all has nothing to do with the quality of the loot itself. Balancing the difficulty in Deadfire is very hard because the main quest is very short but all the XP from side content is plenty. Yet you have to make sure that a player who only does the critical path is able to finish the game.

 

Which says nothing about the loot though. More obviously overpowered loot that everybody could recognize as powerful by just looking at the description wouldn't solve this problem, would it?

Edited March 14, 2019 by Boeroer