Deadfire Polishing Thread

[UltimaLuminaire]

I didn't know the log was bugged. My bad.

[Boeroer]

No stress. How could you know?

I don't know what exactly it is that leads to those "display issues". Maybe it's just that the game only displays the name of last conversion in your stack (while looping through all conversions it doesn't keep track of the conversion's name which actually triggers). No idea. I only know that once you have multiple sources of conversion the same conversion source is mentioned all the time although it has a rel. small chance compared to the others. Like in the Debonaire example.

[Ensign]

As obviously good as a full 5% anything to crit conversion trait paired with 5% auto miss would be...I hesitate to call it out as obviously a must have just because it doesn't scale amazingly with really min-maxed characters. If you have already pumped accuracy through the room and debuff effectively does a bunch of miss to crit conversion really help you that much?

 

Who am I kidding that trait would be sweet and you'd take it at high priority on everyone.

[UltimaLuminaire]

At that point it would be supremely flexible. Barely a combat situation that one talent wouldn't apply to. I'd take it even on my multiclass characters.

 

Speaking of bugs, did anything happen to the field boots + platinated rebound interaction? I haven't checked it in a good while.

Edited March 29, 2019 by UltimaLuminaire

[Phenomenum]

[Waski]

No stress. How could you know?

 

I don't know what exactly it is that leads to those "display issues". Maybe it's just that the game only displays the name of last conversion in your stack (while looping through all conversions it doesn't keep track of the conversion's name which actually triggers). No idea. I only know that once you have multiple sources of conversion the same conversion source is mentioned all the time although it has a rel. small chance compared to the others. Like in the Debonaire example.

Not really. I am seeing in log Power of Money, Uncanny Luck and pet (Pes) separately (but pretty rare ) . And for sure I saw Anatomist(from necklace) triggering on Dichotomous Soul. Necklace, ring and pet on char almost all the time. Just sometimes I swap pet for Eevie.

[Boeroer]

@Phenomenum:

 

Hm... don't know what you mean.

 

I meant if Uncanny Luck would convert 5% of all attack rolls to crits like a 1 out of 20 (=5%) in D&D. Then it would be comparable and a lot more powerful.

I did not mean Miss to Graze, Graze to Hit, Hit to Crit or anything like that. 

Also it's not 1.7% total damage but additive damage.

 

So actually it seems like

 

Edited March 29, 2019 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

 

No stress. How could you know?

 

I don't know what exactly it is that leads to those "display issues". Maybe it's just that the game only displays the name of last conversion in your stack (while looping through all conversions it doesn't keep track of the conversion's name which actually triggers). No idea. I only know that once you have multiple sources of conversion the same conversion source is mentioned all the time although it has a rel. small chance compared to the others. Like in the Debonaire example.

Not really. I am seeing in log Power of Money, Uncanny Luck and pet (Pes) separately (but pretty rare ) . And for sure I saw Anatomist(from necklace) triggering on Dichotomous Soul. Necklace, ring and pet on char almost all the time. Just sometimes I swap pet for Eevie.

 

May be that it just freaks out with certain combos of conversion. I just wanted to point out that there might be issues with those conversion messages in the log.

 

Doesn't matter much though. Even if it would work very reliably: that a player thinks that he/she saw it trigger often during a playthrough doesn't mean a lot. Since you won't remember the times it didn't trigger.

 

If we take the 5% conversion and do some math like above we get those very low numbers that show that the impact of this crit conversion is very, very low on average (while the resistance part is ok). 1.7% additive damage bonus is a very generous assumption. For on-crit effects it's a 2.5% chance increase at best. It is a PEN increase of ~1.25% through crit and maybe ~0.3% additional additive dmg through Overpenetration.  Way worse if you have very high or very low ACC and other sources of crit conversion. Now you can argue with these numbers. Say that they are good enough or not. Or do a more sophisticated estimation. But please let's not argue with "random" observations. Those are great to verify if something works at all. But in this case they are not very helpful.

 

Edited March 29, 2019 by Boeroer

[Waski]

Yeah, I know it's bad, juts don't know how bad exactly

[Boeroer]

it's 0.85[ring]*0.95[pet]*0.95[necklace]*0.95[uncanny Luck] - 1 = 27.12%

 

Without Uncanny Luck it's 23.29%

Uncanny Luck gives you +3,83% (instead of +5%) - in this special case.

Edited March 29, 2019 by Boeroer

[Waski]

So it would be better to take Better Criticals and keep rest of the gear? In terms of DPS? High Acc, 160+ during WotW. 35%-40% crit rate, but Rooting Pain may skewed it a little so on melee hits I think it's higher.

Edited March 29, 2019 by Waski

[Phenomenum]

Hm... don't know what you mean.

 

Okay, we just don't understand each other - it's nothing bad with this) But your picture is funny, becose, actually, i had a breakfast with fried eggs today, and i wonder, how could you know...

[UltimaLuminaire]

There might be a misunderstanding on my wording. The only reason I brought up Uncanny Luck was to state my bias. I'm well aware I'm biased towards the talent since I run it all the time, but people were making posts under the assumption no one in the world took the talent. I just wanted to point out when and where I take the talent. As for my comment to Verde, I was under the impression Verde was talking about the resistance as well as the crit chance. I don't use it purely for the DPS aspect, either, and many of you have already stated that it's not too bad defensively.

 

Please do not take my claims of the log as anything but me making sure you all know of my confirmation bias and not to take me seriously. I just feel a little bad since I didn't consider the log could be bugged at all. I really liked seeing it come up and thought I was one lucky player. As for buffing Uncanny Luck, in my own posts I even state that the votes on the poll will favor a buff to the talent. I never advocated otherwise.

Edited March 29, 2019 by UltimaLuminaire

[MaxQuest]

^ Well, I was often taking that talent too. But mostly treating it as a kind of: +1 CON minus 2 fortitude but plus multiplicative x1.052% healing taken attached)

 

But this talent wasn't doing much for my dps'ers offence wise. By reading the tooltip one may think that 5% is something worth it, but in common case scenario it results in only 0.2-0.4% dps increase.

 

Also I'll just write Boeroer's quote down again:

 

Then there is the duality of the ability. It caters either towards tanks (resistance) or dps characters (crit conversion). If you are desperately looking for ways to prevent damage then you usually don't need the crit conversion that much and vice versa. I would be ok with two abilites: one +10% crit conversion and another with 10% resistance. This should be balanced in regard to the actual Uncanny Luck, wouldn't it. 1 point for 10%. Funnily though: I presume most people would be more tempted to use one of them as they would be to pick Uncanny Luck. Why do you think is that?

Edited March 29, 2019 by MaxQuest

[Boeroer]

 

Hm... don't know what you mean.

 

Okay, we just don't understand each other - it's nothing bad with this) But your picture is funny, becose, actually, i had a breakfast with fried eggs today, and i wonder, how could you know...

 

Blue Orlan Cipher powers for the win?

[Boeroer]

but people were making posts under the assumption no one in the world took the talent.

To be more precise and to avoid such statements I added several times that not many people "who understand the mechanics of it" do take it. That's not saying that nobody will take it. Of course players will take it. The vast majority of players doesn't know that conversions don't stack additively - so they'll assume that 25% + 5% conversion = 30% conversion. Which is totally understandable because how would they know better? It never gets properly explained in the game how those things stack.

 

@the rest of your statement: It's totally fine. We are here to discuss so thank you for your opinion and your insights. Don't feel offended if I or somebody else sounds rude (I mean unless that somebody is explicitly rude ). Often it's the lack of "audible tone" or emojis - and sometimes it's a cultural thing. Like Germans/Russians/... being too direct and so on.

 

 

Edited March 29, 2019 by Boeroer

[draego]

Quick Switch and Deep Pockets should be available to everyone. Arms Bearer and Fast Runner are, I don't see why these aren't.

 

I agree with this. They added some passives back to all single classes a while back but these were definitely missing

[Boeroer]

Deep Pockets is something I personally would like to see on rogue only. But Quick Switch would be nice on every class in my opinion. Would also be nice if it affected grimoire switching. At the moment it seems that nothing affects that.

[UltimaLuminaire]

I feel the same way as Boeroer on Deep Pockets but I also thought the idea of a "Lesser" Deep Pockets for all other classes was pretty cool. Voted for that.

[Verde]

What classes, other tha Rogue, are you choosing the passive for? Bc by your admission you are stacking.

Edited March 30, 2019 by Verde

[Phenomenum]

Some fresh ideas about "Prayers" & "Litanies".

I see, there's no consensus about it. MaxQ suggestion about autolearn was rejected, but these spell still too strange and rarely used, considering limited spellcasts. So... what if we make them not autogrant, but 1 use per encounter, without consuming casts?

 

 

 

        {
            "$type": "Game.GameData.GenericAbilityGameData, Assembly-CSharp",
            "DebugName": "Prayer_for_the_Body",
            "ID": "8f0521ac-0144-45ee-9705-81c55c398d5c",
            "Components": [
                {
                    "$type": "Game.GameData.GenericAbilityComponent, Assembly-CSharp",
                    "KeywordsIDs": [
                        "e726ab76-e91a-4d6e-9525-7eb148964b58"
                    ],
                    "DisplayName": 2082,
                    "Description": 2083,
                    "DescriptionTactical": -1,
                    "UpgradeDescriptions": [],
                    "UpgradedFromID": "00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000",
                    "Vocalization": "GenericSpellCast4",
                    "Icon": "gui/icons/abilities/priest/prayer_for_the_body.png",
                    "UsageType": "PerEncounter",
                    "UsageValue": 1,

 

 

 

Another idea (a very questionable, but still i want to share): Leave usage mechanics as it is, and buff them.

Prayer for the Body - grants all Tier 1 Body Inspirations

Prayer for the Spirit - grants all Tier 1 Mind Ispirations

The same for Litanies, but Tier 2. Though it might be too powerful and require to change spells level from 2 & 4, to...3 & 5 or 4 & 6.

 

Thoughts?

Edited March 30, 2019 by Phenomenum

[UltimaLuminaire]

@Verde
Stacking? I usually take it on classes and characters that I don't typically have a similar bonus. Characters that aren't using shield modals, mostly. I take the passive on...

• Barbarian
• Chanter
• Cipher
• Cleric
• Ranger
• Wizard

Usually at the tail end of the PL or during the next PL in the case of Barbarian.

 

@Phenomenum

That's a weird exception for 1/encounter. Granting all body or mind tier 1 inspirations sounds crazy over-tuned. I'd use it every battle at that point.

If I may suggest, you could make it so the spell periodically buffs you with the relevant tier 1 inspiration at certain intervals. If the inspiration is countered, it will return at the next interval unless the spell's duration runs out and the next interval doesn't occur. Not sure exactly what the code would look like, but this would make the spell a really powerful counter to certain effects but otherwise no stronger than a tier 1 inspiration.

Edited March 30, 2019 by UltimaLuminaire

[Boeroer]

I suggested trinkets which would give you prayers and/or litanies. Something like a prayerbook for example (mechanics just like a grimoire). In my opinion the easiest and least intrusive solution.

Edited March 30, 2019 by Boeroer

[Phenomenum]

If I may suggest, you could make it so the spell periodically buffs you with the relevant tier 1 inspiration at certain intervals. If the inspiration is countered, it will return at the next interval unless the spell's duration runs out and the next interval doesn't occur. Not sure exactly what the code would look like, but this would make the spell a really powerful counter to certain effects but otherwise no stronger than a tier 1 inspiration.

 

Then it's will be a simple immunity to body/mind afflictions. Too OP.

 

I suggested trinkets which would give you prayers and/or litanies. Something like a prayerbook for example (mechanics just like a grimoire). In my opinion the easiest and least intrusive solution.

 

I like the idea. Only doubt is: you will be  forced to stick to those trinkets. Maybe then we should create a prayerbooks with more spells (not only Prayers/Litanies). Some kind of grimoires for priests?

Edited March 30, 2019 by Phenomenum

[Boeroer]

I have nothing against some "full", non-unique prayerbooks like there are non-unique grimoires. But some argued that this might be too similar (or something. There were some good points that I forgot.:oops:). 

 

An alternative was to give only few spells but also give a passive bonus like +1 PL for Inspiration or Protection and so on -  or +1 cast for a certain spell level or something like that. Just to make it more different from grimoires (while retraining the same base mechanics).

 

I don't even think it has to be books in every case. But of course "prayerbook" (book with prayers and litanies) or something like a "vade mecum" (like a Handbook for healing spells) sound nice. But it couls also be a bulla (gives you seal spells), a relic of faith (maybe some of the priest summon spells), an ancient ecclesial tablet and so on. It's easy to use trinkets to add something to the game which makes the class more interesting without even touching the class itself.

Same with Druids and shrinkheads, vodoo dolls, fetishes and so on. 

Just not this rel. uninspired trinkets we got with the DLCs (1 whatever non-class-related ability/rest).

 

Maybe this is not polishing but better material for a "trinket" mod. But I think it will improve the gameplay of Priest and Druid a lot without making them too good. And I like the non-intrusive apporach since I don't like to tinker too much with class abilites and -mechanics themselves. FOr example I uso no mods besides the Advanced UI mod (which is superb but zero-intrusive in terms of mechanics and gameplay).

Edited March 30, 2019 by Boeroer