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On 1/21/2020 at 10:00 AM, Elric Galad said:

1) Toughened Fury is stated 25% Discipline on Crit in the patch note but is 20% in game (might be intended ?).

2) Deep Wounds is stated 4 ticks at 5% damages of the original Attack but is 3 ticks in game (checked the file : this is because the duration is still 6s, while it should be 9s to get the 4 ticks)

3) Lesser Wounds for Shattered Pillars cause the wound limit to be back to 5. This is because Shattered Pillars use their own version of Lesser Wounds in the abilities file, and the max number of Wounds is among the attributes of the ability.
 

By the way, if you want to correct these 3 items, I've already made the modifications and tested them on my local version.

I've only need to "clean" the modded gamebundle files from unnecessary code (to avoid overriding issues) and I can send you the files.

Edited by Elric Galad
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2 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

3) Lesser Wounds for Shattered Pillars cause the wound limit to be back to 5. This is because Shattered Pillars use their own version of Lesser Wounds in the abilities file, and the max number of Wounds is among the attributes of the ability.

I know about this bug. But the other two needs investigating. Could you share your gamebundle files?

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@Boeroer Let's think about Priest's subclasses "uniquness" from the start. What we have now, what staff we can learn from PoE 1, what staff we can add/alter by ourselves.

For now.

1. Unique spells on each PL.

2. Some minor variance in standart spells, which is negligible.

That's all.

-------------------------------------------------------

I miss the Holy Radiance upgrades - that's for sure. I want unique HR upgrade for every subclass via standart progression mechanism or via trinkets.

Then, number of spells. How many bonus spells you'd like to see?

 

Edited by Phenomenum
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(I referred JSON Visual Studio Code displayed lines number in case it helps, not sure it is displayed the same with your editor...) 

Don't hesitate if you have any questions.



1) Toughened fury :

This one is just that the in-game value (20%) wasn't in line with Community Patch Note that states 25% :

https://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity2/mods/335

This file sets it to 25% (basically identical to the CP file except for this value) :

cl.fighter.toughened_fury.gamedatabundle 

 

2) Deep Wounds :

I realized that CP intended to set 4 ticks with 2 seconds interval, so the total duration of 6s was normal. The 2s interval was defined in the beginning of the file (L4-11)

However, the raw damages IntervalRateID (L347) didn't link to the 2s interval ID of L6, but to the 3s interval ID of the original ability. That causes a 3s interval that leads to only 3 ticks.

The file below only changes the IntervalRateID (L347) so it is now 4 ticks with 2 seconds interval :

cl.rogue.deep_wounds.gamedatabundle

 

3) Shattered Pillars with lesser wounds :
 

Shattered Pillar uses its own version of lesser wounds in the abilities.gamebundle file called "Lesser_Wounds_ShatteredPillar". I added this ability at the end of the CP file (L208-216), only to set up the WoundMaxNumber parameter to 10 (L215) :

cl.monk.shattered_pillar_wounds_limit.gamedatabundle

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Uh, a topic got derailed. I'm gonna link posts made pertaining to Barbarian changes so people can reference from here if needed.

Boeroer 01/24/2020 4:24 AM CST 

Elric Galahad 01/24/2020 5:01 AM 

Me 01/24/2020 12:33 PM 

Boeroer 01/24/2020 1:19 PM 

thelee 01/24/2020 1:48 PM 

Boeroer 01/24/2020 3:37 PM 

Powerotti 01/24/2020 3:42 PM (I don't think some of those triggers are possible?) 

thelee 01/24/2020 4:14 PM 

Elric Galahad 01/24/2020 4:29 PM 


I do strongly believe that if people want to make bigger changes to Barbarian, there needs to be a vision of what the class should be first. Right now Deadfire has confusingly labeled the class as some sort of controller/AoE class, but in practice that isn't always the case. Elric has brought up that reducing the cost of Barbaric Blow to 1 would crowd into the multitude of other martial class B&B 1 cost attack powers. Worth considering before making any calls.

In my experience messing around with modding Barbarian, overtuning things, and then retuning them, I found there are ways to empower the Barbarian's kit, putting power in other places instead of on their one PL 2 attack power, and having the class carry itself, so I will see about compiling what I've done into another post in case it's useful for future discussion on Barbarian.

EDIT: I made this post before Elric made a separate thread on making a balance patch. When I make my post on Barbarian, should it still be here in the polishing thread or in Elric's balance thread?

Edited by UltimaLuminaire
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10 hours ago, UltimaLuminaire said:

EDIT: I made this post before Elric made a separate thread on making a balance patch. When I make my post on Barbarian, should it still be here in the polishing thread or in Elric's balance thread?

As you wish. This thread is the one where people were historically discussing balance, so it makes sense to continue discussing there.

I started my mod at a time when it seemed CP wasn't going to evolve. CP is still the reference for balancing abilities (As you can see, my own mod is less "conservative"), so it is probably better to discuss here about an ability for which everyone agree that something has to be done.

Furthermore, Barbarian will be a bit later in my plan, so if CP makes some change I won't have to address this myself 😄 

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17 hours ago, UltimaLuminaire said:

I do strongly believe that if people want to make bigger changes to Barbarian, there needs to be a vision of what the class should be first. Right now Deadfire has confusingly labeled the class as some sort of controller/AoE class, but in practice that isn't always the case. Elric has brought up that reducing the cost of Barbaric Blow to 1 would crowd into the multitude of other martial class B&B 1 cost attack powers. Worth considering before making any calls.

In my experience messing around with modding Barbarian, overtuning things, and then retuning them, I found there are ways to empower the Barbarian's kit, putting power in other places instead of on their one PL 2 attack power, and having the class carry itself, so I will see about compiling what I've done into another post in case it's useful for future discussion on Barbarian.

OK, what is/could be the role of Barbarian then :

 

- Off-Tanking : even if not a dedicated Tank like Fighter and Paladin, Barbarian is still good enough to reliably absorb damages. The limit is : Barbarian has bad Deflection, so it's hard to make him into a dedicated Tank. But with High HP Pool, easy access to CON inspiration, AR buff (and Dazing Shout for single Class), Unflichting, I think they're high enough on the tanking ladder (behind Fighter, Paladin, Trickster and dedicated Wiz, etc...). They have a rather easy access to extra Engagement, though I think aggroing too much is probably a bit suicidal (as Vengeful Defeat suggests).

  • Only thing that they might be missing for this role is probably a reasonable Rage cost-efficiency for Savage Defiance. 

 

- Single Target damage : Not bad since Barbarian are a martial class and Frenzy helps a lot. But is not and should not be Barbarian speciality.



- AoE Damage : Should have been of the class focus, but I would say it is only for Single Class Barbarian (Heart of Blunderbuss or Driving Roar vocal cannon). For MC, Barabaric Blow is meh and Carnage is not enough. I like spamming Spirit Tornado though : Instacast + scaling as a PL1 ability is suprisingly good for a bit of AoE DPS.

  • Although I would advocate for a bit more cost efficiency for Tier VIII - Tier IX (except the blessed Shout ultimates of course), I think it is not a big flaw of the class as a whole.
  • Carnage is good enough as a passive (PoE1 version would cause stupidly overpowered Multiclass), I think it should be supported by active abilities. However, accurate carnage is a tad weak as it is, and could be buffed a bit... maybe ?
  • This should be Barbaric Blow role to support the AoE component Barbarian. But how ? And how it could avoid being a simple "weaker version of HoF" ? Barbaric Blow may have its own stronger version of Carnage (in the range of 100% weapon damage). Not sure of the exact use and values, but after checking the files, I think it's at least technically feasible. So feel free to investigate this possibility.

        
- Mobility : with leap and wild sprint, I think barb has what needed. Leap could be used for other purpose though...


- Debuffing / Crowd Control : should be another focus of the class, but is vaguely okayish at the moment. Barbarian has access to some interrupt (good enough for this part), some pushes, a nice instacast AoE Terrify, Staggered, Shaken and the longest Daze effect. Too few effects, debuffing the same stats (not INT, DEX, CON and PER afflictions) and too much Tier 1 that can be easily resisted. Some ideas :

  • Leap is vaguely Okayish for 2 Rage. 6s Dazed could be replaced by something else, from a short Stun to a long Disoriented (Dazed feels a bit redundant with Dazing Shout).
  • One of the Yell upgrade (Roar line ?) could be change to inflict Confuse (or Distracted, etc...). Not really better but still nice to avoid redundant debuff in a party.
  • Maybe Barbarian lack a passive like the old PoE1 Threatening presence
  • Barbaric blow upgrades could be completely reworked to inflict a debuff... on the whole Carnage AoE. Weakened, Dazed, I don't know exactly which ones, but it would be an option.
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Ye the POE2 barb without multiclassing kinda bummed me out. I had a cc/debuff barb in POE1 that i liked granted that included weapon effects in carnage rip. and coming to 2 there definitely wasnt enough focus on cc/debuff in the class to make it feel similar to POE1 

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@Elric Galad

Haha, funny you mention threatening presence. At some point last year (around the time I hit myself with the field boots to instantly kill myself through Barbaric Retaliation) I actually rolled in the sickening effect vs engaged targets, combining it with the no engagement vs lower level enemies. I didn't notice any imbalance because once you start to reach PL 7 (with other mods to savage defiance upgrades or other changes to earlier PL abilities) the choices become very competitive for SC Barbarian and most enemies who are dangerous by that point already resist constitution afflictions or resist all other afflictions that would have made the sickening effect more useful. The main purpose at that point was to bolster your accuracy with Brute Force vs mobs. In a team setting, you're actually applying constitution afflictions via other party members in big AoEs, so the Barbarian having this effect can be redundant unless you've worked out something for positioning.

 

"Off-Tanking : reliably absorb damages. The limit is : Barbarian has bad Deflection... 

  • Only thing that they might be missing for this role is probably a reasonable Rage cost-efficiency for Savage Defiance." 

While your points here are valid, the simplicity of Savage Defiance means that if you reduce its rage cost and give another survivability tool, you can overtune the Barbarian to the point of making solo easy. I tested some things regarding reducing the cost and adding in Invigorating Strike as a PL 1 active primary attack ability that grants an all-damage shield (base 5 which scales with PL) and having both was enough to create a full turtle kit that could take on all of SSS and other DLC content solo with little trouble. It's probably better to decide whether you want to introduce another survival mechanic that synergizes with Savage Defiance or focusing on Savage Defiance and its upgrades only.

 

"AoE Damage : Should have been of the class focus, but I would say it is only for Single Class Barbarian (Heart of Blunderbuss or Driving Roar vocal cannon). For MC, Barabaric Blow is meh and Carnage is not enough. I like spamming Spirit Tornado though : Instacast + scaling as a PL1 ability is suprisingly good for a bit of AoE DPS.

  • ...I would advocate for a bit more cost efficiency for Tier VIII...
  • Carnage is good enough as a passive (PoE1 version would cause stupidly overpowered Multiclass), I think it should be supported by active abilities. However, accurate carnage is a tad weak as it is, and could be buffed a bit... maybe ?
  • This should be Barbaric Blow role to support the AoE component Barbarian..."

Decreasing rage cost (by 1) for HoF and IoBR hasn't had too significant of an impact in my experience. It makes HoF a little more fun end game since you have some breathing room before and after its use, and IoBR is still competing against vocal cannon shenanigans. 
Yes, basically buffing accurate carnage to scale with PL and to add an increased carnage AoE component that also scales with PL fixed any issues I had with the passive while not making it feel like it had an overwhelming impact. It just made the passive ability competitive with other options.
Barbaric Blow base should probably just get a conservative change like @Boeroer suggests. Give it a push so it triggers carnage on the enemy you hit. With other changes to the Barbarian, it'll synergize nicely, especially if you do what I did and add a PL 8 ability called Aftershock that just procs a second carnage AoE.

 

"- Mobility : with leap and wild sprint, I think barb has what needed. Leap could be used for other purpose though...

- Debuffing / CC : should be another focus of the class... Too few effects, debuffing the same stats (not INT, DEX, CON and PER afflictions) and too much Tier 1 that can be easily resisted. Some ideas :

  • Leap is vaguely Okayish for 2 Rage. 6s Dazed could be replaced...
  • One of the Yell upgrade (Roar line ?) could be change to inflict Confuse (or Distracted, etc...).
  • Barbaric blow upgrades could be completely reworked to inflict a debuff... on the whole Carnage AoE. Weakened, Dazed..."

Leap is used to sequence break maps and speed run through many locations that normally can't be bypassed. Doing things like leaping past triggers, onto higher terrain (if it's programmed into the map properly) and moving more efficiently to save time during Eothas challenges. I'd say moving it to one earlier PL is about the best change you could give it. Removing or adding more afflictions to it is not needed. I've also messed with reducing the rage cost by 1, but I'm undecided on how powerful it is. On one hand, I love leaping around with such a low resource cost and being able to unload even more abilities, on the other, isn't that kind of the definition of broken? Especially for a 1 point ability? I would caution against reducing the rage cost.
Wild sprint is fine. I would focus on the upgrades because they're not worth it atm. What I did was add a charge effect where you get a bonus damage lash for 5s after activating any of their upgrades. Really awesome synergy that doesn't actually break the ability since you run out of rage really fast when doing your thing at mid to late PL anyway.
Yell abilities that confuse or distract, in my mod experience, isn't game breaking at all. The move suffers from cast time and recovery. For most of the game using them is iffy at best. Go for it.
Crushing Blow and Barbaric Smash  doesn't need any debuffing mechanism. If you mess with the conditional bonus damage a little like with the gatecrasher +200% damage vs full HP target (which on testing is not as broken as it seems, especially if you take away the crit damage modifier) idea implemented by @Grape_You_In_The_Mouth in their Barbarian mod, you'll find some solid purpose in the upgrade path. The explosive keg VFX on gatecrasher is just icing. As for Barbaric Smash, you are welcome to increase the crit damage as you intended earlier. I've done the same myself, and found it to meet many thresholds for 1 rounding threats, but as @thelee pointed out it's still less reliable than a fully upgraded Paladin's FoD, so it's fine.

Edited by UltimaLuminaire
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3 minutes ago, UltimaLuminaire said:

@Elric Galad

Haha, funny you mention threatening presence. At some point last year (around the time I hit myself with the field boots to instantly kill myself through Barbaric Retaliation) I actually rolled in the sickening effect vs engaged targets, combining it with the no engagement vs lower level enemies. I didn't notice any imbalance because once you start to reach PL 7 (with other mods to savage defiance upgrades or other changes to earlier PL abilities) the choices become very competitive for SC Barbarian and most enemies who are dangerous by that point already resist constitution afflictions or resist all other afflictions that would have made the sickening effect more useful. The main purpose at that point was to bolster your accuracy with Brute Force vs mobs. In a team setting, you're actually applying constitution afflictions via other party members in big AoEs, so the Barbarian having this effect can be redundant unless you've worked out something for positioning.

Good to know.

I didn't specifically say that resurrecting the old Sickening presence would be a solution. Barbarian already has too many Tier 1 Afflictions...

I can be everything. Why not a shackle-like effect that would trigger Immobilized in melee range ? "I'm your opponent" as would say Manga Characters.

The condition to trigger it in a balanced way would have to be discussed of course.

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The Barbarian having access to Daze and Terrify as their primary tier 2 afflictions are fine. They are 2 of the most powerful tier 2 afflictions I can think of aside from int tier 2, and allow the Barbarian to safely holy hand grenade from stealth with little in the way of retaliation. Adding more tier 2 afflictions may muddle the matter (of what the class should specialize in). I've also updated my post to include more of your points.

You also have the stagger effect on Spirit Frenzy that applies to carnage. You can use that code as a jumping point if you're dead set on trying to add more afflictions to carnage.

Oh, and while I said the sickening on engage isn't overpowered, I didn' t say it wasn't insanely fun. Being able to sicken once more just by engaging, which is almost always instant, is very satisfying. I had a lot of fun with modding it in. It definitely gave me, personally, a reason to take Threatening Presence. It's normally not worth taking because it conflicts with certain armor abilities & Signet Ring that requires enemies to engage you.

Edited by UltimaLuminaire
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22 hours ago, UltimaLuminaire said:

@Elric Galad

Haha, funny you mention threatening presence. At some point last year (around the time I hit myself with the field boots to instantly kill myself through Barbaric Retaliation) I actually rolled in the sickening effect vs engaged targets, combining it with the no engagement vs lower level enemies. I didn't notice any imbalance because once you start to reach PL 7 (with other mods to savage defiance upgrades or other changes to earlier PL abilities) the choices become very competitive for SC Barbarian and most enemies who are dangerous by that point already resist constitution afflictions or resist all other afflictions that would have made the sickening effect more useful. The main purpose at that point was to bolster your accuracy with Brute Force vs mobs. In a team setting, you're actually applying constitution afflictions via other party members in big AoEs, so the Barbarian having this effect can be redundant unless you've worked out something for positioning.

At some point in the discussion, I think I switched to brainstorming mode and started to think about more changes than what I initially intended. Barbarian aren't bad, even as Single Class. My last playthrough with full Barb Serafen was basically a mix between your style and Boeroer's : I spammed Spirit Tornado and Driving Roar all the time. The initial idea was to buff a bit other abilities, but I initially didn't intend major rework of the class as a whole. I'll stick to this and keep it simple. Only Barbaric blow needs a true rework, the rest can be limited to tuning.

Quote

 

"Off-Tanking : reliably absorb damages. The limit is : Barbarian has bad Deflection... 

  • Only thing that they might be missing for this role is probably a reasonable Rage cost-efficiency for Savage Defiance." 

While your points here are valid, the simplicity of Savage Defiance means that if you reduce its rage cost and give another survivability tool, you can overtune the Barbarian to the point of making solo easy. I tested some things regarding reducing the cost and adding in Invigorating Strike as a PL 1 active primary attack ability that grants an all-damage shield (base 5 which scales with PL) and having both was enough to create a full turtle kit that could take on all of SSS and other DLC content solo with little trouble. It's probably better to decide whether you want to introduce another survival mechanic that synergizes with Savage Defiance or focusing on Savage Defiance and its upgrades only.

No need to additional defensive abilities for Barbarians.

Decreasing cost of savage deviance is a problem because one of the upgrade would make it 1 Rage. 
I think I'm going to double its duration (EDIT : or less, I may undevalue Robuste), and set the Concentration Gain to +3 for Savage Courage.

Still comitting to use (especially in front of Weakening foes), but more "cost-efficient".

 

Quote

 

"AoE Damage : Should have been of the class focus, but I would say it is only for Single Class Barbarian (Heart of Blunderbuss or Driving Roar vocal cannon). For MC, Barabaric Blow is meh and Carnage is not enough. I like spamming Spirit Tornado though : Instacast + scaling as a PL1 ability is suprisingly good for a bit of AoE DPS.

  • ...I would advocate for a bit more cost efficiency for Tier VIII...
  • Carnage is good enough as a passive (PoE1 version would cause stupidly overpowered Multiclass), I think it should be supported by active abilities. However, accurate carnage is a tad weak as it is, and could be buffed a bit... maybe ?
  • This should be Barbaric Blow role to support the AoE component Barbarian..."

Decreasing rage cost (by 1) for HoF and IoBR hasn't had too significant of an impact in my experience. It makes HoF a little more fun end game since you have some breathing room before and after its use, and IoBR is still competing against vocal cannon shenanigans. 

Yeah, HoF either one-shot groups of clumped Zombies (so cost isn't even significant) or is overcosted in suboptimal conditions. So 3 Rages is fine and will align it with Whirling Strikes. 

IoRB for 2 Rages sounds good. EDIT : Also adding "Fire" Keyword.

Quote

 


Yes, basically buffing accurate carnage to scale with PL and to add an increased carnage AoE component that also scales with PL fixed any issues I had with the passive while not making it feel like it had an overwhelming impact. It just made the passive ability competitive with other options.

Ok !

Quote


Barbaric Blow base should probably just get a conservative change like @Boeroer suggests. Give it a push so it triggers carnage on the enemy you hit. With other changes to the Barbarian, it'll synergize nicely, especially if you do what I did and add a PL 8 ability called Aftershock that just procs a second carnage AoE.

Small problem : I think Push will mess with Full Attacks.

My ideas for the moment (without numbers because this is not the most important) :

Barbaric Blow : 
Currently, it has 5 different effects (+PL damage multiplicator), but none justifies its cost nor is defining enough.
I think I'm going to remove PR and damage bonus so I can have it focus on more defining stuff.
Carnage AoE is not meaningful but it is at least unique. Might be increased to +300% AoE (double radius) but I'm not sure. EDIT : not for the base ability.
I'll focus mostly on +% Crit Chance and + Crit damage.
It might not worth 2 Rages but then there is upgraded version.

Crushing Blow :
Idea is to make it Ignore Recovery. 100% chance, no check.

I think THIS will be defining enough AND consistent with Holy Grenade playstyle.
Barbaric Blow initial stats would have to be checked to avoid OPness, of course.

Barbaric Smash :
I'm getting headache at trying to associate Refund with something.
On Kill : maybe not worth the trouble.
On Crit : too powerful with +% Crit Chance and too close from Gambit...

Gatecrasher Effect on Hurt or Above would be tempting...
EDIT : I think the easiest way would be to keep the refund on kill AND to increase the carnage AoE and damages (double damages and radius ?). This way, even if using Barbaric Smash on low health target results in an overkill, you're still getting something for using it.

Quote

 

"- Mobility : with leap and wild sprint, I think barb has what needed. Leap could be used for other purpose though...

- Debuffing / CC : should be another focus of the class... Too few effects, debuffing the same stats (not INT, DEX, CON and PER afflictions) and too much Tier 1 that can be easily resisted. Some ideas :

  • Leap is vaguely Okayish for 2 Rage. 6s Dazed could be replaced...
  • One of the Yell upgrade (Roar line ?) could be change to inflict Confuse (or Distracted, etc...).
  • Barbaric blow upgrades could be completely reworked to inflict a debuff... on the whole Carnage AoE. Weakened, Dazed..."

Leap is used to sequence break maps and speed run through many locations that normally can't be bypassed. Doing things like leaping past triggers, onto higher terrain (if it's programmed into the map properly) and moving more efficiently to save time during Eothas challenges. I'd say moving it to one earlier PL is about the best change you could give it. Removing or adding more afflictions to it is not needed. I've also messed with reducing the rage cost by 1, but I'm undecided on how powerful it is. On one hand, I love leaping around with such a low resource cost and being able to unload even more abilities, on the other, isn't that kind of the definition of broken? Especially for a 1 point ability? I would caution against reducing the rage cost.
Wild sprint is fine. I would focus on the upgrades because they're not worth it atm. What I did was add a charge effect where you get a bonus damage lash for 5s after activating any of their upgrades. Really awesome synergy that doesn't actually break the ability since you run out of rage really fast when doing your thing at mid to late PL anyway.

I personnally think Wild Sprint upgrades are Okay, even if not that great.

Leap shall stay at 2 Rages to avoid being a direct concurrent to Wild Sprint.
What I'm considering is to replace 6s Dazed by 4s Stun. 
Barbarian already has access to a 4s Hard CC through Spirit Tornado, so this is just another option.
It will be consistent with Barbarian specialization toward MIG affliction.
It would also avoid redundancy with Dazing Shout.

EDIT : I'm also thinking about downgrading a Tier IX ability to Tier VIII because Tier IX is really crowded. Possibly Blood Surge, because it helps all build. Blood Surge may also be buffed to 50%, as Community Patch did to its Paladin Equivalent (they also removed the On Kill effect from killed ally, which makes sense so if Blood Surge has the same issue, I will make the change too).

Edited by Elric Galad
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7 hours ago, UltimaLuminaire said:

I've tested 50% Blood Surge myself and it was fine. The overall high costs and scattered efficiency of Barbarian actives meant it doubled as QoL.

Thanks, your feedbacks have been very helpful !

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Ouch. Sorry if I'm stating the obvious but he ought to give you other powerusers permissions whenever he returns, sad to see it stalled like this.

Edited by Noqn
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i mean could you just download the files and start a new mod page and call it C Patch 2.0 or something ? i get its not ideal but if no one can get a hold of max and just post a link to the original in the new mod

Edited by draego
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Just now, draego said:

i mean could you just download the files and start a new mod page and call it C Patch 2.0 or something ?

Yea, though you'd still end up with v1 higher up in search results due to more endoresements/votes. People on Steam Workshop wouldn't get auto-updates either.

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It would most likely break combos with WotEP, Karabörü, Sungrazer and Keeper of the Flame and all those weapons that proc some form of AoE on hit or crit. Not to speak of Heart of Fury and Clear Out with those weapons then. Also Barbaric Retaliation would be way too good with the PoE mechanic in use.

Also I think Carnage was way too good in PoE - especially because of its interaction with weapon effects (St. Ydwen's Redeemer ftw) and then also Heart of Fury. 

The current solution is good. The only things that I don't like is that the raw damage is a bit low and that it can't crit - which is not a big problem for Spirit Frenzy (Carnage will stagger on hit) but Blood Frenzy (Carnage can never apply the DoT because it can't crit).

Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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39 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

It would most likely break combos with WotEP, Karabörü, Sungrazer and Keeper of the Flame and all those weapons that proc some form of AoE on hit or crit. Not to speak of Heart of Fury and Clear Out with those weapons then. Also Barbaric Retaliation would be way too good with the PoE mechanic in use.

Also I think Carnage was way too good in PoE - especially because of its interaction with weapon effects (St. Ydwen's Redeemer ftw) and then also Heart of Fury. 

The current solution is good. The only things that I don't like is that the raw damage is a bit low and that it can't crit - which is not a big problem for Spirit Frenzy (Carnage will stagger on hit) but Blood Frenzy (Carnage can never apply the DoT because it can't crit).

Hehe, nice to hear that I wasn't the only one to consider St. Ydwen's Redeemer on a barbarian as Concelhaut party's Kryptonite.
 

I think I agree with Boeroer on this : this would have too many consequences, and would most likely break the MC system (Barbarian + Rogue...) 

I was thinking about adding Crit to Carnage as a part of Accurate Carnage buff (+5 ACC=>+10 ACC, can crit) because of Bood Frenzy indeed. I wasn't sure of the consequences, especially for Slayer's Claw + Berzeker combo (Energized works on every Crit), but it wouldn't be that better than WoEP/Citzal/Wahai Porage + Energized anyway. I don't think Carnage is tagged as weapon or melee so it shouldn't have that many interactions.



By the way, my current proposal for Barbaric Blow :
 

Barbaric Blow :

  • No PR and Damages bonus (too unfocused)
  • 75% Crit chance
  • +75%  Bonus Crit damages
  • +200% Carnage AoE (approximately taking it to Medium size – 2,5 radius)

 

Meant to be used as a crit generator. Not extremely original, but I couldn't add a push effect cause it would mess with Full Attacks...
The Damage level of the ability is lower than Accurate Wounding Shot (if PR is not counted) which is meh for a 2 rages ability, but the upgrade should be nice enough.

 

Crushing Blow

  • No recovery

Note that instant damage ability spamming is already in the barbarian Portfolio thanks to Spirit Tornado.
I'm not 100% sure that is not OP, but I think this may lead to interesting combo such as Black Jacket's instant debuffing.

 

Barbaric Smash

  • +2 Rage on Kill
  • X2 Carnage damages

So in case of Overkill, you still get a benefit from using the ability.

 

Edited by Elric Galad
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