AoE weapons (Whispers otEP, Citzal's, Mortars etc.) don't apply afflictions in an area anymore

[drithius]

Hopefully this is a bug; having just reached level 20 on my rogue/monk, this change diminishes my interest for finishing the game and DLC.

[TheMetaphysician]

I may have overreacted about my Xoti build being busted. I put the Fire in the Hole mortar in her main hand and a non-mortar blunderbuss (Kitchen Stove with Wild Barrage) in the off-hand, and she actually gets the refund from Stunning Surge more often. And both weapons bounce, so she is still stunning multiple enemies for a while.

 

It still hurts, but it hurts the rogue builds the most, I think.

Edited January 26, 2019 by TheMetaphysician

[Elric Galad]

Rogue is supposed to be specialised in Single target DPS and Debuff, and this hasn't been nerfed.

The nerf isn't fun at all, but Rogue is still a very good class.

[Purudaya]

Rogue is supposed to be specialised in Single target DPS and Debuff, and this hasn't been nerfed.

 

The nerf isn't fun at all, but Rogue is still a very good class.

 

Still not sure if this is an intentional nerf. They put the change to turning wheel in the patch notes and not this, even though modifying how weapon AoE afflictions are applied is a much bigger change given the popularity of builds that rely on it. I'll hold out hope that the response to the bug report will be that it wasn't intended. 

[Boeroer]

Since this already happend one time earlier and was fixed some patches ago I guess it's not intended.

Edited January 27, 2019 by Boeroer

[arkteryx]

So I'm getting weird results with stunning surge with an aoe mortar. Not only am I getting the mortification refund on a crit on anyone, but it's also giving me back 2 wounds when it does. Is it supposed to do that? Nothing in the description seems to say so. I did originally have xoti as a priest/monk and respeced via the console which I know can sometimes cause odd effects.

 

Also I noticed that my Bleakwalker's Flames of Devotion still applies sickened to everyone in an aoe both with whispers or with mortars. So not all afflictions are affected just most of them.

[Boeroer]

No, some stuff like Flames of Devotion or FInishing Blow work as before.

 

Stunning Surge is not supposed togive you wounds. But it may be that you have Dance of Death active and are Nalpasca? Else it's a bug.

 

The refund also happens on a crit from a bounce. Fire in the Hole has a bouncing ecnchantment - maybe that's it?

[arkteryx]

No dance, sister of the reaping moon. Tried creating a hired adventurer, base monk, no other items equipped, same thing. Was definitely giving me wounds at the same time it refunded mortification, didn't happen if I didn't crit, wasn't happening with any other abilities. But yeah, probably still some weird bug. Would be interested to hear if anyone can reproduce it. The only mods I have installed are a visual one for inspirations/conditions and the more ai commands neither of which I can imagine would affect this.

 

I thought the bounce might be throwing me off so I specifically tested with just the regular hand mortar. It would also give me wounds using stunning surge with just my fists, assuming I crit of course.
 
As I understand it, aoe weapons like whispers/mortars get any stat bonuses from an ability against all targets (+pen from strike the bell, +dam from finishing blow) maybe because they're a bonus applied to you rather than a debuff on the enemy, so it makes sense that flames of devotion gets the bonus accuracy/damage versus everyone. What surprised me was that bleak walker still sickened everyone which seems the same as toxic strike weakening or stunning blow stunning which don't. Are there any other debuffs that you can still apply in an aoe?

 

I also was kind of hoping that using an aoe finishing blow on a near death enemy would give the same high bonus against everyone around it, was sad to find out it calculated separately for each enemy. On the other hand, I realized you can combine dual mortar Whispers of the Wind with Avenging Storm from Heaven's Cacophony to be even more ridiculous.

Edited January 28, 2019 by arkteryx

[Boeroer]

Did you kill on that crit? Or do you get a wound refund on every crit? Because Sisters of the Reaping Moon gains wounds on kill.

Edited January 28, 2019 by Boeroer

[Verde]

I think it's about time we nominate Boeroer for a Lead Q&A role. Srsly, Obs get your **** together!

[Elric Galad]

Well for everyday's life Boeroer's contribution to the forum is unparalled.

But, to be honnest (Min)Maxquest has been invaluable to to dig the trickiest questions (attack speed, as he did for PoE1). 

He's basically the chosen of Wael. (Boeroer might be the chosen of Hylea because of his sheer creativity  ) 

 

Thelee too has also made some valuable investigations.

Edited January 28, 2019 by Elric Galad

[Boeroer]

Yes, the guys that dig into the code and explain all the math or do a lot of testing around numbers are very helpful.

 

I can't force myself to uncompile the code and search through it. I do programming all day long and am happy if I don't have to look through code in my freetime. Not that I don't like my job - it's awesome - but enough is enough. That's also the reason I don't mod despite being a Software Engineer.

 

I just have fun testing out combos I think may be cool. Of course knowing the inner workings helps a lot.

 

That way I can find stuff that you can't find by looking at the code. For example that you can use Clear Out or Whirling Strikes with a ranged weapon (mortars! ) if you only put a melee weapon into your offhand. Try Clear the Path with Fire in the Hole + Scordeo's Edge with Blade Cascade... Enjoy!

Edited January 28, 2019 by Boeroer

[MaxQuest]

I think it's about time we nominate Boeroer for a Lead Q&A role. Srsly, Obs get your **** together!

It's also about time for an ingame NPC ^^

I would definitely vote for a blue orlan being added to PoE3 ))

 

A knowledgeable scientist that has the right mixture for you to respec, and also the one to offer a list of suitable build presets of A+ quality^^

 

And with some funny interaction if you try to pick pocket him)

 

Legends say he wields dual mortars, and performs Whispers of the Wind after using Combusting Wounds^^

 

Edited January 28, 2019 by MaxQuest

[TheMetaphysician]

So I'm getting weird results with stunning surge with an aoe mortar. Not only am I getting the mortification refund on a crit on anyone, but it's also giving me back 2 wounds when it does. Is it supposed to do that? Nothing in the description seems to say so. I did originally have xoti as a priest/monk and respeced via the console which I know can sometimes cause odd effects.

 

Also I noticed that my Bleakwalker's Flames of Devotion still applies sickened to everyone in an aoe both with whispers or with mortars. So not all afflictions are affected just most of them.

 

Are you sure that you were getting mortification refunds when the crit didn't happen on the primary target -- when it just happened on someone in the AoE?

[arkteryx]

So I tried this again, trying to eliminate alternatives. Started a new game, single class base monk. Got to the beach, used the console to give myself level 20. Leveling up I tried to avoid any passives that could possibly be giving wounds, no imagined pain, no parting sorrow, not even rooting pain or duality of mortal presence just in case they interacted somehow. Still getting wounds back from stunning strike.

 

https://pasteboard.co/HYBvqNA.png

 

Inventory and skills:

 

https://pasteboard.co/HYBz2rH.png

https://pasteboard.co/HYBzqI4.png

 

Notice I have no active effects (the one icon is from combat focus giving me concentration), have nothing equipped, hitting with just fists here. Stunning surge crits and I get my mortification back (notice I still have 11, max) and I gain 2 wounds. I'm not getting wounds on any other crits and I don't get them if stunning surge doesn't crit.

 

As for stunning surge working on aoes, consider this screenshot:

 

https://pasteboard.co/HYBtB9U.png

 

Same base character, now using the basic hand mortar with no upgrades. I miss my main target, the tiger, but crit the rotghasts and still get my mortification back and gain wounds. This is all in v4.1.0.0023, not beta branch, with all dlcs installed.

 

Is no one else seeing this behavior? Can someone test and confirm that they are not getting wounds or that stunning surge only refunds on their main target? Because I feel like I've done everything I can short of reinstalling and I'm still seeing the same effects.

 

Edit: In a similar vein, I found that Barbaric smash also refunds its rage cost if it kills someone other than the target, either via carnage or an aoe weapon like mortars. This may be the intended effect but it's not what one might think reading the description which only mentions killing "the target."

Edited January 29, 2019 by arkteryx

[Ophiuchus]

 

I think it's about time we nominate Boeroer for a Lead Q&A role. Srsly, Obs get your **** together!

It's also about time for an ingame NPC ^^

I would definitely vote for a blue orlan being added to PoE3 ))

 

A knowledgeable scientist that has the right mixture for you to respec, and also the one to offer a list of suitable build presets of A+ quality^^

 

And with some funny interaction if you try to pick pocket him)

 

Legends say he wields dual mortars, and performs Whispers of the Wind after using Combusting Wounds^^

 

Mortars that shoot out Morning Stars!

 

As for this AoE weapon business, It's a confirmed bug and on the list to be fixed.

 

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/108136-bug-41-aoe-weapons-no-longer-apply-afflictions-in-an-area/?p=2135682

[TheMetaphysician]

A related question, for anyone who knows: if you have Avenging Storm active, how many procs of it does 1 regular blunderbuss attack deal? Do you get an individual Avenging Storm bolt for every pellet hit?

[arkteryx]

You get a lightning strike for each individual pellet hit, so four times with most bluderbusses (assuming you hit or at least graze with all four pellets) and potentially many more with the mortars. Makes heart of fury or whispers of the wind with dual mortars even more OP. Sadly carnage hits (which wouldn't proc off a blunderbuss anyway) don't proc storm bolts just like they don't proc most other on hit effects.

 

Here's my next question: when I use heart of fury in a big group some of the carnage hits say "Konstenten(Carnage) Hits Rotghast. (Additional Effects)" and list some raw damage when you mouse over. Others just say "Konstenten(Carnage) Hits Rotghast" without the additional effects and say a similar effect with longer duration is already applied when you mouse over. Does that mean they're not doing any damage or is this just a visual bug? Carnage should be an instant effect, not sure what duration has to do with it or why they wouldn't all count. In a big group most of the carnage hits appear to be getting overwritten, potentially robbing me of a lot of damage.

Edited January 29, 2019 by arkteryx

[Boeroer]

Yeah, that's crap. I also don't know why. That's the reason why HoF is a lot weaker in Deadfire than it was in PoE.

 

Using HoF with mortars (+Powder Burns) is much more effective just because Carnage from every attack roll doesn't seem to get applied to all enemies like you described.
You don't have Carnage with mortars, but at least all the Poweder Burn stuff gets applied to all enemies mutiple times which adds up pretty nicely (on top of all the AoE explosions from the mortars themselves). Pretty nasty with Avenging Storm by the way... 

[arkteryx]

That seems like a pretty big bug. Has it always been like that, has obsidian commented on it? I counted only 8 hits registering out of 20 that should and it seems like it gets worse the more you have (more chances to have a "stronger effect" I suppose). To rule out it just being a visual bug, it would help if there were a way to actually see enemies health numbers instead of just healthy/blooded/etc. so I could manually verify how much damage I'm doing, especially since the damage numbers disappear so quickly even when the game is paused.

 

Any more thoughts on the stunning surge bug? See previous page for screenshots.

[Boeroer]

Don't know. However QA said they are currently into the "AoE doesn't apply affliction" thing. It's not intended and they are trying to fix it asap.

[TheMetaphysician]

How about Powder Burns? Does that proc Avenging Storm too?

[Boeroer]

No, it does not. But do you know what does? Blinding Smoke from Hand Mortar.    Best enchantment... but shhhh!

 

I found out by testing a Fury focused on hand mortars + Avenging Storm.

 

And then I tried Blinding Smoke + Avenging Storm on a fighter with Clear the Path (Hand mortar in main hand, Sungrazer in offhand):

 

 

 

 

 

 

               

Edited January 29, 2019 by Boeroer

[hilfazer]

But, to be honnest (Min)Maxquest has been invaluable to to dig the trickiest questions (attack speed, as he did for PoE1). 

He's basically the chosen of Wael.

He's the greatest thorn in Wael's side.

[Kaylon]

 

But, to be honnest (Min)Maxquest has been invaluable to to dig the trickiest questions (attack speed, as he did for PoE1). 

He's basically the chosen of Wael.

He's the greatest thorn in Wael's side.

 

Not to take anything from MaxQuest who did a great job digging into the code and explaining many things especially in PoE2, but in PoE1 lots of people tested the mechanics (attack speed included) and posted their discoveries before him. Giving all the merits of an entire community to a single person is rather unfair and reductive.