How fun are Priests?

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

Hey guys, 

 

Just a quick follow-up on my "I'll describe a character" post from a few days ago. I'm curious as to how fun it is to play and/or RP a Priest, a Priest of Wael especially. I was thinking that worshiping (basically) an Elder god (I love Wael's design), and having a theological perspective coming into Deadfire would create an interesting set of character interactions. I was thinking about playing a Priest of Wael/Streetfighter Zealot. 

 

I'm curious as to how fun Priests are to play in Deadfire compared to PoE1, where they honestly wrecked house with some of their spells. 

 

Also, someone mentioned on another thread that Wael's choice for PoE1's ending ONLY shows up if you pledge to another god first - thus you have to break the oath in order to take that choice. Is that true, or can you take the option if you don't make any prior pledges? 

 

 

[bugarup]

I found a single class priest pretty boring mechanically -- the Priest unfortunately isn't One Man Army like in PoE anymore. Universalist was much more fun but purely because of its Druid side (I ♥ druids). Not that many interactions with Wael either, just on the Wael island, peeking through telescope, maybe something insignificant else, but the bastard doesn't even acknowledge you in conversations you have with gods.

 

Cannot tell anything about Wael's ending though, neither of those two characters broke any oaths.

[Ophiuchus]

Mechanically it's not as fun as in PoE1 since general talents were replaced with boring passives and there's a funky ability disparity between power levels. I like using Xoti or a hireling Eothas (modded with Deadfire Tweaks) Priest but as an MC it's never held my attention past level 12 or so - even with multiclassing. The RP is pretty good, though, and you can always invest in Arcana for some flexibility (which would obviously gel with Wael).

Edited September 11, 2018 by Ophiuchus

[Sherab]

Yeap, I agree with others, that from mechanics' perspective priests have been highly nerfed. No only in their universality, but even as heal+buff-bots they seems to be much worse in my opinion (while still somewhat useful).

 

 

But I have to admit, that I had biggest problem with main character being a priest from role-playing perspective. After all, priest or not, our hero is the Watcher from Caed Nua - he/she know about god's true nature. How this knowledge influenced his faith? Those "beings" are still quite powerful, obviously, but their "artificial" origin makes me hard to justify real worship and deep faith - and as we know, those faith is a source of souls' energy for priest's spells. From other hand, Durance was abale to use Magranic faith for some time after discovering the true about her. So I guess this may be more complex.

[Manveru123]

Druids are better healers. Wizards are better nukers (alto Berath and Magran are close). But multiclass options are decent, especially Contemplative and Shaman.

[Tick]

Is there much reaction in either games to Eothasian priests?

[Stardusk78]

I am working on a mod to change this. Be patient.

[Sceptenar]

Is there much reaction in either games to Eothasian priests?

 

In the first game, a bit, but not so much. In Deadfire there is quite a lot, it's one of the classes that has the most interactions in fact.

[esyvjrt]

No, you don't have to pledge to another god to get Wael's option

[Enoch]

Not that many interactions with Wael either, just on the Wael island, peeking through telescope, maybe something insignificant else, but the bastard doesn't even acknowledge you in conversations you have with gods.

 

The best unique Priest of Wael interaction happens in the scripted interaction when you sail through the reef near Motare o Kozi.  Also entertaining:  when you use Minor Intercession to get rid of plague aboard your ship. 

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

 

Not that many interactions with Wael either, just on the Wael island, peeking through telescope, maybe something insignificant else, but the bastard doesn't even acknowledge you in conversations you have with gods.

 

The best unique Priest of Wael interaction happens in the scripted interaction when you sail through the reef near Motare o Kozi.  Also entertaining:  when you use Minor Intercession to get rid of plague aboard your ship. 

 

 

Huh, neat. 

 

So I guess the different gods have different reactions when you use Minor Intercession in that case? Except Eothas, one guesses. 

[Manveru123]

Build thread in 3.. 2...

[thelee]

Hey guys, 

 

Just a quick follow-up on my "I'll describe a character" post from a few days ago. I'm curious as to how fun it is to play and/or RP a Priest, a Priest of Wael especially. I was thinking that worshiping (basically) an Elder god (I love Wael's design), and having a theological perspective coming into Deadfire would create an interesting set of character interactions. I was thinking about playing a Priest of Wael/Streetfighter Zealot. 

 

I'm curious as to how fun Priests are to play in Deadfire compared to PoE1, where they honestly wrecked house with some of their spells. 

 

I play almost exclusively priests or priest variants, and while most priests aren't the single-handedly-battle-swinging support classes of PoE1, single-class priests do become that once they get PL8 spells. Both PL8 and PL9 spells are on-par with some of the best from PoE1 (spark the souls of the righteous, dismissal, hand of wael and woe, your deity's seal spell all wreck house and that's just PL8). It is true they are nerfed from PoE1 days, but honestly I thought priests were broken in PoE1. 

 

For the rest, I would say that most priests are almost perfectly balanced, for better or worse. "Worse" because there's not truly a broken opportunity to exploit (like Devotions from PoE1, or how amazing either Repulsing Seal or Pillar of Faith were in PoE1 when it meant 10+ second prones), "better" because it's hard to go wrong with many of the choices compared to other classes (*cough* barbarian subclasses). And I think this is reflected in the fact that priests haven't gotten very big buffs or nerfs in a while, while other classes are still being tuned in patches (and rangers are due for a big one).

 

I say "most priests" because I think Eothasian priests get a little bit of the shaft because most of their bonus spells are already in the priest spell list, so in many cases any other priest can do whatever an Eothasian priest can do but better. But Eothas is still useful for multiclass setups where the bonus spells can save you some valuable skill points.

 

Anyway, I still prefer Deadfire priests because they have a stronger gameplay connection to their deity (whereas it was purely optional in PoE1) and also multiclassing opens up a lot of fun design space.

 

That being said, from having played a lot of priests in Deadfire, lorewise I can tell you some things:

 

 

- Eothas gets a couple of unique dialogue options re: Eothas (both talking to him and about him).

- Wael gets a few fun interactions (telescope, something while sailing, campfire interaction on the Wael island).

- Magran has an easy way to completely skip combat in all of Ashen Maw.

- Skaen... I don't remember much here

- Berath... I don't remember much here, not even with Berath herself.

 

 

 

Not a lot, but probably still way more than PoE1.

 

 

 

Druids are better healers. Wizards are better nukers (alto Berath and Magran are close). But multiclass options are decent, especially Contemplative and Shaman.

 

Priests aren't supposed to be top nukers, and druids were numerically the top healers in PoE1 as well. Priest healing is more about up-front numbers or effects (e.g. Restore/Watchful Presence/Iconic Projection/Withdraw/Minor Intercession/Eothas, the main exception being consecrated ground) and resurrection. A druid in Deadfire can hit everyone with a robust effect or one of their several huge aoe periodic heals, but it might take many seconds to get your health out of danger zone, whereas a priest is going to get you out of danger much faster (though overall healing will generally be less).

Edited September 14, 2018 by thelee

[Sherab]

Hmmm...

 

I guess, that my impression on Deadfire's priests is somewhat distorted by the fact, that I don't really understand new affliction system. Ok, I understand it better now, than I was starting the game. But sill, I don't "feel" it. If I would, maybe I woul appreciate priest's spells more. But right now, aside of healing spells, I don't really feel that any spell realy give me something in a fight. And healing spells, why obviously can save a day, due to limited in-combat resources (with is something good in general), they are not that useful either. Hence, in my opinion, AoE periodic healing is way better in on-going battle (more precisely, we need both types of healing). In PoE 1, consecrated ground was very good at this. But it feels soemwhat crappy in Deadfire, and it became static to make things worse.

 

As I wrote, this opinion is propably largely biased, however.

 

From other hand, I agree that at least some priest's spells from PoE 1 were over-powered, so to speak. But at least I knew that many of them (even those not-so over-powered) are actualy useful. And generaly, having a party without priest was possible, but not really smart.

 

Ok, maybe this new approach allows us for more versatile party composition, making priests less... hmmm... mandatory, so to speak. But from other hand, they feel so "weak" now, hence I don't know... As i wrote, this is propably very wrong at my side

[Verde]

Priests are not thay fun until end game imho. Up to that pt they play mostly the same. Sure subclasses add flavor but don't alter them all too much. But once they get PL8 and 9 spells their effectiveness increases exponentially. I always have fun summoning their Godly avatars. One a side note Xioti has the worst PL9 spell EVER...a giant plant tentacle that Druids get so I don't recommend single classing her. Just create an Adventurer later on for non story missions.

 

The disposition hurts em too. You have to robotically pick dialogue choices because it's so wonky and unintuitive.

Edited September 15, 2018 by Verde

[thelee]

Priests are not thay fun until end game imho. Up to that pt they play mostly the same. Sure subclasses add flavor but don't alter them all too much. But once they get PL8 and 9 spells their effectiveness increases exponentially. I always have fun summoning their Godly avatars. One a side note Xioti has the worst PL9 spell EVER...a giant plant tentacle that Druids get so I don't recommend single classing her. Just create an Adventurer later on for non story missions.

 

I would actually argue that most of the priest subclasses change a lot how a priest plays out (with possible exceptions of Eothas and Gaun), but you have to play to its strengths. I think Magran has the most "obvious" difference because they are basically as good of a nuker as a druid or priest and you hardly have to do anything special to realize this; Rymrgand, too, but your mainchar can't be Rymrgand. But especially Skaen and Wael--if you play to their differences--are radically different, especially in a multiclass context. For example, assassin/skaen or streetfighter/wael multiclass: you could try an assassin/someOtherPriest or streetfighter/someOtherPriest and they might still be viable, but they wouldn't really shine in the same way. 

 

But the key thing is you have to actually play to each subclasses strengths. If you're just picking the same spells and doing the same thing, it's not going to be too different.

Edited September 15, 2018 by thelee

[thelee]

I guess, that my impression on Deadfire's priests is somewhat distorted by the fact, that I don't really understand new affliction system. Ok, I understand it better now, than I was starting the game. But sill, I don't "feel" it. If I would, maybe I woul appreciate priest's spells more. But right now, aside of healing spells, I don't really feel that any spell realy give me something in a fight. 

 

I think on lower difficulties the game is not punishing enough that you can even ignore a lot of the affliction/inspiration interactions; things just happen, whatever. On low-mid-range path of the damned (with god's challenges) it's worth learning and getting used to countering afflictions/inspirations and learning what buffs are good.

 

That said, you really should try some of the mid-high-level priest buff spells. The PL1 ones are a little subtle, but some examples of mid-range good spells:

• Dire Blessing is really good for most of the game, especially on Path of the Damned (where accuracy is more of a problem). To illustrate how good it is, priests are the only class that can do a party-wide "Aware" inspiration at that point in the game (and I believe ever: ciphers can only do themselves and one other party member at PL4, Wizards can only do themselves, and fighters can only do themselves albeit they can get up to intuitive). Aware is good because on top of +5 accuracy, it gives you a 50% graze->hit change, which is just bonkers for much of the game. It computes roughly to about a 22-25% multiplicative increase in damage output, not to mention the less tangible benefit of landing your non-damage effects at much greater odds. Also, even though grenades, scrolls, and poisons have been "reset" that your stats don't affect them, the 50% graze->hit part of Aware does affect them, which can make it much, much easier to land really powerful scrolls and bombs.
• Despondent Blows is just as good as it was in PoE1, which is to say, awesome at protecting your melee characters.
• Triumph at PL4 is way better than PoE1 because on top of the heal (which in PoE1 was frequently buggy) you get a basic strong inspiration (+5 Strength, approximately 10-12% multiplicative increase in damage output).
• Devotions in Deadfire isn't quite as broken as in PoE1, but is still a very good spell (the +4 might and +10 accuracy buff is roughly a 28% multiplicative damage increase [on top of landing non-damage effects more frequently], and the -4 might -10 accuracy debuff is analogously roughly a 22% multiplicative damage decrease for enemies). Like Aware, while grenades/scrolls/poisons have been "reset" that your stats don't affect them, they do still get buffed by the +10 accuracy, so Devotions can make it much easier to land effects.

Edited September 15, 2018 by thelee

[Sherab]

Thanks for advice.

 

My first playthrough was on "veteran" difficulty level. Now I've just started another, but with leve-up scaling enabled. This is ("veteran") because I'm not that good fighter as a player for PotD (well I was good enough in the first PoE, I guess - but let's say this was more than I needed actualy - especially for DLCs), and mostly, because while I want some challenge from a fights, they are not most important part of the game to me (role-playing my character, following stories and doing quests are).

 

Anyway, I definitely will try to take closer look on all buffs and de-buffs in the game to put them to better use.

[Enoch]

• Triumph at PL4 is way better than PoE1 because on top of the heal (which in PoE1 was frequently buggy) you get a basic strong inspiration (+5 Strength, approximately 10-12% multiplicative increase in damage output)

I have to say that I don't quite get the enthusiasm for Triumph around here (in either game).  It brings healing in big chunks, sure, but it's also unreliable regarding who gets healed and when.  Ideal use requires metagaming killshots, which is a pain.  And, more fundamentally, healing matters a lot less when it comes after defeating an opponent.  If a character actually needs such a huge shot of healing, waiting for them to score a kill is playing with fire.  I suppose it can make an all-offense melee'er functionally immortal when surrounded by fragile enemies, but those kinds of situations aren't generally the fights that pose a serious enough challenge to drive build decisions. 

 

Hard spell for me to justify using, particularly compared with the others in tier 4. 

Edited September 17, 2018 by Enoch

[thelee]

 

• Triumph at PL4 is way better than PoE1 because on top of the heal (which in PoE1 was frequently buggy) you get a basic strong inspiration (+5 Strength, approximately 10-12% multiplicative increase in damage output)
•  

I have to say that I don't quite get the enthusiasm for Triumph around here (in either game).  It brings healing in big chunks, sure, but it's also unreliable regarding who gets healed and when.  Ideal use requires metagaming killshots, which is a pain.  And, more fundamentally, healing matters a lot less when it comes after defeating an opponent.  If a character actually needs such a huge shot of healing, waiting for them to score a kill is playing with fire.  I suppose it can make an all-offense melee'er functionally immortal when surrounded by fragile enemies, but those kinds of situations aren't generally the fights that pose a serious enough challenge to drive build decisions. 

 

Hard spell for me to justify using, particularly compared with the others in tier 4. 

 

 

 

It's not so much about healing when you need to heal, it's more about the incidental healing over the course of a longish fight. It has definitely made fights for me that should have been close into blowouts as a result (even with the nerf from 200 healing down to 80).

 

I actually don't think the PoE1 version is any good. In my analysis, the reason why the Deadfire version is so much better has in large part much to do with the strong inspiration they attached to it. In PoE1 it was essentially giving up combat time and a per-rest spell slot--one that it shared with the completely-bonkers Devotions of Faith--just in case you need a heal at some point (and like you said it's unreliable who gets it unless you perfectly metagame killshots so it's not even good for that), and PoE1 priests had a lot more healing options--even with just Holy Radiance--so the relative value of Triumph's value was much less. So, unless you had a high tolerance for rest-spam and loading screens that was not a good use of a per-rest spell slot. In Deadfire, it's a per-encounter effect so the conditional cost is less severe; spell heals are less plentiful and Holy Radiance less good so its heal is relatively better; but most importantly the mere fact you get a strong inspiration means you get something for it right now, so it's never wasted time. Basically, in PoE1 Triumph was a really crappy heal spell; in Deadfire, it's instead an OK party buff that will occasionally give you incredible heals. (It also helps that the way the affliction system works in Deadfire a strong inspiration also absorbs one strength affliction, like a stun, whereas there was no such defensive benefit for such buffs in PoE1.)

 

I'll agree with you in the sense that for most people, it's just a win-more: I.E. it was a fight that you were going to win anyway, but people see huge healing numbers and full-health characters at the end of a fight and really like it. If it was popular in PoE1 (and frankly I didn't know it was, that's why I thought they added the strong inspiration--to drive usage), it was probably for similar reasons, not because it was any good. In Deadfire, it can be a win-more, but the strong inspiration gives it immediate value and--as mentioned above--the occasional (and huge) healing over the course of a longish fight can turn near-wipes into complete blowouts.

 

I mean don't get me wrong, I still think that even the nerfed Devotions of the Faithful is a better overall spell vs Triumph any day of the week, but Triumph is still a very good spell.

Edited September 17, 2018 by thelee

[Manveru123]

 

Priests aren't supposed to be top nukers

 

And yet, they can be. Druids too, but they need highest level spells. I don't see a problem with that. By the way, a Priest was the best nuker in POE1 as long as the enemies weren't immune to Burn, so this is nothing new.

[1TTFFSSE]

Priests are pretty fun as melee caster hyprids. They have stronger spells than druids or wizards up to the level 7 spells actually, it is after level 7 that wizards get a decisive edge. So doing a multiclass priest is less of a tradeoff than a multiclass wizard. Priest definately have the strongest nukes in the level 7 spell lineup when compared to wizards and druids. 

 

Also they have the best aoe party buffs and utilities in the game: dire blessing, devotions for the faithful, circle of protection, barring death's door and salvation of time. These make a priest actually a top addition to any party on potd I would say. 

[thelee]

Also they have the best aoe party buffs and utilities in the game: dire blessing, devotions for the faithful, circle of protection, barring death's door and salvation of time. These make a priest actually a top addition to any party on potd I would say. 

 

I think something similar is going on with priests as has (already) happened with wizards. Both in PoE1/2 backer beta, a lot of people thought wizards were teh suck, and then shortly after release it was like "wow wizards are really powerful" and nerfhammers are falling all over the place. (Remember when back in PoE1 Slicken was an AoE duration repeating prone effect: and not like Deadfire prone; serious, multiple-second crowd control that repeatedly re-triggered over the aoe duration? Pepperidge Farm remembers). I strongly suspect people overvalue instantaneous damage/heal effects and undervalue crowd-control, de/buffs, and support spells, so people have been complaining about weak priests for months after release and it's taking just a bit longer for people to come around to the idea that "yeah, giving everyone in your party Aware for a long time is pretty sweet actually." (Though it doesn't help that Deadfire priest is definitely relatively weaker compared to 3.0 PoE1.)

Edited September 20, 2018 by thelee

[Boeroer]

Slicken was just a one-time prone in PoE and not repeating - so actually the Deadfire version is better, but anyways:

 

You will realize how good a priest is if you did a playthrough with one - and then do a playthrough without one.

 

It's always the same with all those classes that don't do the obvious and are not straightforward. Those need a bit more experience to grasp their value. At first lots of people will say "man class x is sooo bad" - and then later that same class lands on the no1. position for the most powerful class in a forum poll.

[InsaneCommander]

I like how priest subclasses in Deadfire are almost like different classes. I'll definitely play as a Fire Godlike Priest of Magran eventually. I just don't know what other class to choose for multiclass. Probably a Corpse Eater for rp or a Skald.

 

I found a single class priest pretty boring mechanically -- the Priest unfortunately isn't One Man Army like in PoE anymore. Universalist was much more fun but purely because of its Druid side (I ♥ druids). Not that many interactions with Wael either, just on the Wael island, peeking through telescope, maybe something insignificant else, but the bastard doesn't even acknowledge you in conversations you have with gods.

 

Maybe in PoE3 the gods will reveal why the refuse to acknowledge their priests. Who knows, maybe they don't even know the clergy exists.