Gromnir

diamond is a hack? okie dokie. in any event, the guy we would mention first as a kinda poster boy for the notion that white disease gutted many native populations in the western hemisphere is a guy by the name of Henry F. Dobyns. am not a huge fan o' his, but he typical don't get described as a quack. is some considerable evidence that more than a few native american populations were destroyed entirely by european disease. when the british explorer, George Vancouver arrived in the puget sound in the late 1700s (am too lazy to look up the exact date) he observed that small pox had arrived before him. few survivors o' the horrific disease remained, and many o' those were rendered blind. Dobyns were the first guy that were suggesting a major increase in the native pre-columbian population o' north america from initial estimates, and he were also making specific guesstimates about the toll o' european disease on such populations. conversely, some o' the estimates o' native populations would appear to be based on... well, we don' t know what they is based 'pon. sure, the aztec capital were larger than paris, and far cleaner too, but there is few new world sites such Tenochtitlan that is making it easy for scholars to get a good estimate o' a population. the thing is, digging up north american sites has never resulted in the kind o' evidence one would need to back-up many of Dobyn's claims 'bout population numbers. there is considerable evidence that europeans attempted to use primitive biological weaponry 'gainst native populations. o' sure, the effectiveness o' such attempts were largely negligible, but the practice itself were hardly insular. however, perhaps ironically, the most effective means o' spreading disease amongst indigenous populations were entirely accidental-- pigs. the post columbus explorers invariably brought pigs with them, and some o' those pigs escaped before being eaten by our intrepid disease carrying explorers. sure, jerks such as de Soto lost much o' their crew to fevers and disease, but their pigs got loose into the native environment and thrived... and spread far more disease than did the explorers themselves. whatever intentional schemes were utilized to spread contagion, the accidental and natural means o' spreading far out weighed the intentional. and keep in mind that the colonials were dropping like flies from disease as well. https://www.armyheritage.org/education-and-programs/educational-resources/education-materials-index/50-information/soldier-stories/282-smallpox bah. all o' this is silly. the vikings discovery o' north america did not change the world. like it or not, columbus landing in the west indies were a pivotal event in human history. us native americans were happily killing each other before europeans got to the New World. whatever unspeakable atrocities the europeans unleashed were largely a continuation o' the atrocities we were indulging in before y'all discovered the western hemisphere. columbus changed the world. he deserves credit for that, whether we like how the world changed is a different question altogether. hey, some scholars is cheesed 'bout how many people throughout history has been killed in the name o' christianity, but am betting most such folks still give their kids christmas presents. columbus day? so what? as an aside, we got little animosity for euro explorers. as we noted earlier, native americans were hardly living in a peaceful utopia before 1492. slavery, war, and genocide were committed in the western hemisphere Before columbus arrived, so in our mind, we has always thought it were hypocritical to blame euros for visiting such evils 'pon us. nope, our anger is limited to specific treaty violations committed by the US... but that is a whole 'nother topic. HA! Good Fun!

Myself, mutonizer, Hiro II, swordofthesith, MoonWolf, morhilane, illathid and Fiebras think otherwise (among others). We know that Rogues are supposed to be a DPS class, but they are doing far, far too much at the moment. Especially considering that pretty much all creatures were nerfed in the latest patch. *chuckle* somebody is easily distracted. "Classes in PE have worse balance than a party of optimally made AD&D 2E characters at the moment." does the current classes need balancing? sure. actual, we mentioned more than once that the PoE classes need balancing. you telling us that you and others think rogue needs balancing is amusing, but not near as relevant as you think. we noted that removing a few weapons would significant diminish complaints about some classes being op, so you acting as if your observation is a rejection or retort is, well, not. *shrug* your initial point were ridiculous. am not sure why you are holding on so tenaciously to this. HA! Good Fun!

a point we see getting missed is that rogue and ranger is 'posed to be the heavy-hitters. furthermore, 'cause perhaps we didn't mention in the thread, developers is attempting to balance usefulness rather than power. extremes in power does diminish usefulness o' competing talents, weapons, classes, etc., but goal is not to make all PoE features balance on a spreadsheet. if our barbarian were doing more damage than our ranger and were a better tank, then we would have a balance problem. if our mage could effective wade into combat and be effective untouchable while doing the best single-target and aoe damage in the game, then we would have ad&d 2e... and we would have busted balance. at the moment, we feel that the paladin is weak, but folks seem to disagree with us. we also do not like that the cleric's buffing and healing role is essential... should be more than a single heal class. even so, compared to ad&d, we don't have any obvious chump classes, and the claims o' OP classes rely much on particular weapons and they is ignoring the class roles. HA! Good Fun!

actually, take away the arbalest, and a few other weapons, and you would see many o' the OP complaints from the recent build disappear. the ranger and rogue is s'posed to be doing the most damage, but the extreme examples is coming with a very limited number o' weapons. the crit numbers tend to shock and awe, but when we look at total damage output in our party, rogue and wizard seem to be having the biggest numbers... though again, am suspecting that the way the ui tracks damage, ranger animal companion is not included with ranger numbers. a ranger with a bear has ridiculous offense output that is not crit dependent. HA! Good Fun!

kinda proving our point(s). you played in a munchkiny ad&d group, so is unlikely you saw from a dm perspective just how bad ad&d 2e balance were, and your rogue example illustrates our concerns about PoE weapons and dt. is not that the classes is broken so much as is the dt and weapons. HA! Good Fun!

okie dokie. as we said, am having a hard time taking you serious, particularly as you now throw dark suns into the mix with all of its wacky balance issues. a "party of optimally made AD&D 2E characters" was a serious headache for a dm, especially if one or two players were not fully optimized. trying to keep the game equally fun for all 2e players were a chore given such balance concerns. in point o' fact, if every player were equal munchkiny, it were actual much easier to dm such a campaign. because o' the enormous gap between powerful and powerless and useful and useless, d&d 2e were at its worst for a dm when optimized and non-optimized mixed in one party... and there is nothing in our ridiculous high number o' hours o' total gameplay o' PoE that would make us think that it iseven remotely close to having 2e ad&d balance issues. there is indeed some serious balance issues related to dt and particular weapons, but those ain't specific class related. btw, for total weapon damage output, rogue and ranger is still tops for us. again, for the rogue or fighter, their damage is far too heavily tied to their weapon choice, but rogues get bonus damage that the fighter doesn't get. compare a rogue with a bow to a fighter with a heavy-damage weapon would be unfair, yes? also, for whatever reason, folks always forget to add animal companion damage to ranger total damage output. we made a firearms ranger who were getting consistent damage in the 40s... and his freaking bear is Still hitting for +50. HA! Good Fun!

closer to 8 hours as it were a weekend... but we did note earlier that we hadn't been exhaustive in our exploration o' balance. played ranger, cipher and barbarian in addition to the bb staples. 'course, we have considerable hours played with the previous builds o' PoE and nothing has jumped out at us that would even make us remote consider an optimized 2e AD&D party to be more balanced. we do note you said you played in the 90s, but you don't say how much? 20 minutes? *shrug* playing is also different than dming. a decent dm in a pnp setting can balance gameplay even if the rules ain't particular balanced. Gromnir frequent had to make adjustments to keep vanilla bards and thieves happy once combat began in a 2e session. perhaps your limited experience as a player of 2e, sans all the rules that could optimize, gives you a less clear picture o' ad&d than those folks with more experience... much as you believe our 8 hours o' gameplay is insufficient. *insert emoticon of your choice here* HA! Good Fun!

... I get the vaguest impression that you're not all that familiar with 2E beyond the IE games. Would that be accurate? that would be our guess. then again, sensuki is kinda schizophrenic with emoticon usage, so perhaps this time he ain't serious. *shrug* we loaded the new build up last night and this am. sure, is not enough time to discover all balance issues in PoE, but compared to a "party of optimally made AD&D 2E characters" there is such a vast gulf in balance concerns that we have a hard time being other than complete dismissive o' sensuki on this matter. HA! Good Fun!

... am suspecting that anybody who had to dm 2e and deal with 2e kits is having a similar reaction. is amazing just how many priests o' mystra and red knight sudden show up in 2e campaigns contemporaneous with splat books, and the proliferation o' bladesingers were amusing. hell, the base 2e stuff were not only woeful unbalanced, but leveling complete changed the balance dynamic for classes. 2e ad&d included such wonderful nonsense as psionic wild talents and pretty much everything in skills and powers, but even the core phb classes were balance broken from the start. PoE does have some notable fails for class balance, but using 2e d&d to contrast? yeah, am not certain if you is serious. sadly, am guessing that you are. HA! Good Fun!

am doubtful that bragging and boasting gets much attention in PoE, and that is kinda a shame. Gromnir is a fan o' the classics, and it always saddened us that judeo-christian notions o' heroism has forced humility 'pon us. would homer's hector pass up a chance to boast? come up with a list o' virtues for beowulf and you would never think to include humble or self-deprecating. the classic heroes were braggarts and it is almost criminal that we has mistaken classical notions o' hubris for modern when reading greek tragedy. for the hero, a good boast were as much a prerequisite as were skill at arms. what a shame that we has become civilized. HA! Good Fun!

well, if that is the direction these threads go, then we got a word about cheesecake. yes, we likes a good cheesecake. with halloween and thanksgiving nearing, we will have multiple opportunities to makes our pumpkin cheesecakes. everybody who isn't lactose intolerant or diabetic loves a Gromnir cheesecake. even so, is not a cake. we got a crust and a filling, like any good pie. is not batter per se, although a couple eggs and a small amount o' flour is added to give the cheesecake filling lift. would you ever think to add frosting to a cheesecake? 'course not. in any event, cheesecake is not a cake. oh, and when did folks start calling prunes "dried plums"? yeah, a prune is a dried plum, but sometime in the past couple years we began seeing prunes being marketed as dried plums... 'cause old people with bowel trouble eat prunes, but young & sexy folks eat dried fruit? and another thing... HA! Good Fun!

Considering most Baldur's Gate 1 areas were empty woods with nothing but a bunch of random enemies and sometimes 1 or 2 npc encounters I am not sure I can agree with this assessment. As for what they do with the extra time? I would hope they spend it primarily fixing bugs, improve the attribute system, continue to improve on combat feedback and feel, and work on the over all game balance. Beyond that some UI options would be okay, but that's about it. New features? I see no point in new features until what you have now is as close to perfect as it can get. it is good that folks give examples o' what they think is superior to PoE, but the bg examples does effective undercut the argument. if PoE had encounter design similar to the majority of circled bg wilderness maps, we would be extreme disappointed. as to priorities, we haven't played the newest builds, but our main concerns now is same as they were before: endemic bugs & balance. well, actually, combat feedback were seemingly improved already and that were our main gripe. score one for obsidian? no doubt the bugs is being addressed without need of Gromnir to identify each one. balance... balance issues is more difficult and somewhat subjective. as we has mentioned elsewhere, when we reference balance, am speaking o' balancing usefulness rather than power. sure, when power/powerlessness is so disproportionate it may impact perceived useful. attributes such as might and intellect is getting attention, and that is a good thing. am hopeful we see further balancing o' attributes. class balance would appear to need work. as we said, we haven't played the last couple builds, but as we mentioned elsewhere, the cipher were needing some adjustments. we personally were believing the paladin were kinda pathetic, but we were surprised by a few o' the player polls that identified paladins as a win class for PoE-- go figure. as we noted earlier, balance is subjective. one o' the drawbacks o' the extreme limited nature o' the beta is that we don't know if we is getting a good look at PoE skill use. one would hope that the full/final build has more skill use opportunities, and more meaningful uses o' skills. most o' the balance issues is also well documented, so this will be a matter o' seeing what obsidian does to address such issues. gonna repeat about bugs. am knowing folks has told us that bugs is easy to fix compared to features, but obsidian, fair or not, has a reputation for buggy releases. there is no publisher for obsidian to blame for PoE being rushed, so while we recognize that a bugless release is impossible, we would be extreme disappointed if PoE were released in the same condition as a few o' obsidian's previous titles. if the developers keep working towards completing PoE, we will be satisfied. am hopeful that obsidian does not try and make different game with the time they got remaining. HA! Good Fun!

until something fundamental changes with character creation, you may always re-enter the ability tab. what this means is that whether you get a +1 to an ability before or after the creating your ability spread is largely meaningless as you can simply re-click the ability tab and distribute your +1 however you so desire. doesn't matter if the +1 comes from backgrounds or culture. from a practical perspective, the +1 ability modifier impacts initial minimums or maximums of an ability score and nothing else. whether the point comes from backgrounds or cultures, what you get is a general +1 ability modifier unattached to any specific ability. HA! Good Fun!

with a few notable exceptions, there were nothing wrong with bg2 quest density. given the number of maps, there were quite a goodly number o' side quests in the underdark. sooooo... brynlaw and those empty maps after the underdark were the problem? yeah, the post underdark maps were anemic, but that were due to much content ending up on the cutting room floor as the developers rushed to finish the game. ... ultimately is a whole lotta nothing that is being debated. stuff such as trademeet's crisis with the druids were actual initiated in athkatla. firkraag also were initiated in the city.would it have made a big difference if you had to go to the windspear hills to get the firkraag (sp?) quest? would that have made it superior and increased the whimsical sense o' exploration we recall some folks waxing poetic 'bout? between companion and stronghold quests, areas such as the umar hills and de'arnise hold had a considerable number o' quests. sure, given that the game were an rpg with considerable replay value, you might not have realized just how many quests were tied to de'arnise on your first play of bg2, but isn't that a good thing? yeah, brynlaw, the asylum, the sahaugin city and the post underdark maps were all kinda limited, focused and/or empty, but am thinking josh's initial point were kinda weak. the quest density in athkatla were never a problem for us, but even so, we find the notion that compelling exploration (HA!) to uncover some handful o' quests would have improved bg2 to be a minor and largely illusory enhancement. were nothing wrong with athkatla quest density. perhaps there were an issue with quest density being unbalanced, but as noted elsewhere, some o' this were due to man-hour limitations... and the fact the asylum and sahaugin city didn't have much in the way o' tangential side quests did not surprise or bother us. HA! Good Fun!

am not certain we agree that more classes is inherently more complex. obsidian is devoted to a notion o' balance, so more classes likely does make more complex in that sense, but the addition o' more classes is not inherently more complex than a zero, two, or eleven class system. a classless system that relies on perks, feats or whatever, can result in as much complexity as an eleven class system if the feats and perks is numerous and diverse. in point o' fact, virtually any class we see in PoE can be recreated with a classless system. those unique class abilities is made available through feats n' such. with eleven classes you do not necessarily get more complex-- you get more limited. ironic, no? each class needs necessarily become more focused or at least more unique, otherwise there ain't a point to having the class. considering that an obsidian goal were to be allowing greater customization and freedom o' character development than we saw in the ie games, we saw eleven classes as unnecessary. in fact, we suggested that eleven classes were working at cross purposes with their stated goals. as we said, more classes equal less freedom as each class need necessarily fill a more limited role. nevertheless, we believe obsidian has done an admirable job o' making the classes unique... particularly the casters. even so, more classes don't equal more complexity. however, with more anything, you does make increasingly difficult to balance. HA! Good Fun!

You're sounding a bit sensitive there gromnir. lord help us. is that your response? we know pre-teens that do better than this. ... no doubt, option 2 was, "i know you are, but what am i?" yes, you got us. the First Amendment attorney who has been an advocate for gang members, nazis and religious nut-jobs is "sensitive" regarding your... posts. go easy on the narcissism. *snort* and to stay on-topic. am confused by the dungeon siege reference. "Dungeon Siege 3 had 4 for a reason." well, am s'posing that is true. there is always a reason. your axiomatic statement is hardly illuminating. HA! Good Fun! ps edit: we never actual defended gang members, nazis and/or religious nut-jobs. we hasn't done criminal for a long time, and we were prosecution side back then. we "defended" constitutional rights, but not criminal defense. apologies for possible confusion.

obviously you don't understand humor, or the codex, or... something. am not sure what the nazi iconography is s'posed to convey to us. regardless, that kinda thing is, no doubt, exactly what obsidian is trying to promote with their message board community. *insert eye-roll emoticon* HA! Good Fun!

yeah, is nothing more funny than rampant antisemitism and racism. but you are correct that nothing you say will change our opinion based on considerable observation and some participation going back far longer than you has been posting at codex. sensuki joined codex in 2012? am thinking your opinion is the more shallow one. regardless, it not change the fact that you and other codexians fail to see that a free-for-all that allows and encourages bigotry discourages open debate. while obsidian has business reasons for discouraging bigotry, their model is the more enlightened and constructive one. oh, and do try and stay on-topic. you will get thread locked if you continue to fail at contributing to the thread. "Just stop listening to the incoherent nostalgia people" you do realize that those is the folks who paid the 4 million dollars, yes? unclear on the concept ... both of you. HA! Good Fun!

"One of the admins is a jew and uses the jewgold emoticon himself, and one of the moderators is gay openly fabulous. Everyone is fair game on the codex :)" ... am not certain why you think that your observations is meaningful... is probably something you has heard over and over again at codex. codexian group-think is strong. have a couple feeble dissenters actual reinforces the group-think, but the codexians don't get that either. even so, am not caring how many latino and lesbian or jewish quadriplegic moderators there is at codex. in point o' fact, is actual kinda sad that you got a jewish "moderator" at the codex given the "rampant Hitler-worship and Jew-baiting" mc identified. everyone is fair game? *chuckle* fine, but there ain't nothing fair or right about attacking a person for no other reason than the color o' their skin or their religion. the codexians don't realize that bigotry chills open debate rather than promotes, and to genuine believe that a jewish moderator makes their cesspit less fetid is asinine. but to stay on topic, am not certain that the genesis poster knows what a false dichotomy is, but am thinking that the illusion o' choice is a fundamental requirement in a role-play crpg based on the ie games. sure, you only have what choices the developers allow, and those choices all is limited and defined by the developers/writers, but choice, even if it is ultimate illusory, is prerequisite in a game such as PoE. oh, and am not certain why the genesis poster sees a major difference 'tween six and eleven classes. Gromnir lobbied for zero classes and suggested two as an alternative. even so, as long as the classes is relative balanced (not balance o' power, but balance o' usefulness) and offer unique gameplay, we don't see a difference 'tween six or eleven. obsidian did a far better job o' making the gameplay o' the classes unique than we woulda' expected, and they still gots a few months to balance. we didn't see any need for classes, but am actual moderately impressed that the obsidian folks were able to offer eleven genuine unique classes for PoE. kudos to the developers. HA! Good Fun!

actually, we woulda' been far more harsh if pj had used kotor 2 as an example. when we think o' how obsidian flubbed the business end o' things with the kotor 2 development, am reminded o' the ribbons o' shame clip from gung-ho. *shrug* the kotor 2 debacle were sad. am not feeling like embarrassing the obsidian folks by dredging up the details once more, but we suspect pj is aware oh why kotor 2 were a bit rushed at the end o' the development. not a good example. HA! Good Fun!

Icewind Dale 2. vol would say, "no." http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/IWD2/iwd2_pr.php pj is not having much luck with the release date stuff... unless he is krogan, he is gonna run outta testicles. HA! Good Fun! ps if it makes you feel better, most o' us on the bis boards were pleased with the delay 'cause we got d20 outta the wait.

we will say that providing more development time is likely to result in many folks being more upset. many folks want more time so that PoE can become more the game Bob or Sandy or Phil wants the game to be. if obsidian uses the time they got to make the game better as obsidian envisions, that will anger many folks. "with two extra months you managed to make the game worse instead of better!" am hopeful that obsidian doesn't use extra time to give PoE broader appeal-- that would be a mistake. the more a developer or writer or whatever tries to appeal to everybody, the less chance he/she gots of impressing anybody. use the extra time to make PoE better. use extra time to make PoE different is unlikely to end well. unsolicited advice to obsidian: stick with the vision you has been following for two years. listen to feedback? sure, but don't let those folks make you second guess whether fundamental choices made two years ago were right or wrong. adjust and improve, but don't make PoE a different game. am gonna play the role of cassandra and prophesize that many people in this thread who is expressing relief at announcement o' the release date extension will be lambasting obsidian in 2015 for failing to live up to imagined promises and unrealized potential. oh well, being right didn't work out so well for cassandra. HA! Good Fun!

mid-march were our initial guess many moons ago. 'course we assumed some last minute delay(s) would push back release til first week o' the 3rd fiscal quarter... plus, 1 april 2015 were simple too good to pass. even so, when taking chuckle value out o' consideration, march 17, 24, or 31 all strike us as likely release dates. HA! Good Fun!

the release date being pushed back surprises us not at all. the only surprise is just how tenaciously the obsidians were holding onto 2014. we expected this announcement long ago. this is good news for Gromnir, and not simply 'cause we were guessing correct that release would be delayed. PoE is envisioned as the first game in a new franchise. far more important than squeezing every farthing and shilling out o' the kickstarter is making a game that demands a sequel. the expansions and sequels is where developers can afford to get cheap and lazy. *cough* HoW? the first game in a new franchise shouldn't bankrupt you, but you can't afford to get it wrong either. this is the smart, if overdue, move. HA! Good Fun!

am thinking that if vol likes character generation in wl2, that in itself is compelling evidence that the inxile design is dumb. to make smart character generation choices in wl2 requires meta-knowledge rather than reason or intelligence. bad design. all one needs do is review this thread and see how many otherwise intelligent gamers got X hours into playing wl2 before they realized that they borked their rangers in the first five minutes, during character generation. am all in favor o' giving the player hard choices, but the fact o' the matter is that without meta-knowledge, you won't know if you "chose poorly" til fifteen hours into the game. following developer boards to avoid bad skills or character builds doesn't make a player smart, and the fact that such a precaution is a prerequisite to avoid reasonable-but-terrible builds is a flaw in design o' the game. HA! Good Fun!