Gromnir

leaving out relevant information is, at best, misleading. you may not personally be swayed (HA! big surprise there, eh?) but is always funny when we see only tiny fraction o' a poll or story linked. makes us wonder why. you either don't have the same level o' curiosity or discernment or... whatever. *shrug* the missing information were clear relevant, which is why gallup included such information. baro did not include. HA! Good Fun!

obsidian is designing an RPG. is not getting through? they are developing a Game that offers the player Choices. those choices include builds and weapon types and a host o' other factors. and in the grand scheme o' things, combat is not pointless (see above) but is treated exactly equal, which is kinda the point o' an rpg, and clearly were the obsidian's point based on their kickstarter promises. need us to point those Again? http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/61543-are-you-for-or-against-gaining-experience-points-only-for-completing-objectives/ goal from very start is mentioned right there at start o' the older and more populous poll. oh, and am not gonna do more than observe that you mistaken brought ps:t as kinda an ideal xp mechanic earlier in one o' these threads. lord knows you don't want us to go that way again. "what we've got here is failure to communicate." tactical combat is not being discouraged unless you has the complete bizarre notion that any mechanic that seeks to encourage diverse roleplay styles in addition to combat is fundamentally and inexplicably making combat pointless and worthless... but we has been down this road again. you is not getting less experience by doing combat. you simple isn't getting more. this, like ps:t and fallout, and bg2 is ROLE-PLAY games. the notion that by other folks getting the same, you is getting less is just... childish. actually can't think o' a better term than childish. *shrug* http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/67672-toggling-xp-systems-for-a-peaceful-co-existence/?p=1499053 nevertheless, we see that you, in particular, cannot be reasoned with. were our mistake in making the attempt once again. we said we would not repeat that mistake, but clear no progress has been made... none is capable o' being made. HA! Good Fun! edit: what is with weird font size problem we have on this board? weird

yes, no doubt all those folks who play as elves instead o' as humans or dwarves consider those other options useless. use magic? in a game with sword? hell, only a wimp uses spells, or druids, or stealth or dialogue or bothers to solve puzzles when you got an option to kill instead. heck, the very idea that some jerk developer provides an alternate secret door or puzzle route whereby a dwarf druid could bypass combat more properly completed by elven fighters and non-magic using mages just chaps our hide. the more alternative options a cRPG developer includes in a game, the more it devalues the actual choices Gromnir makes. am knowing how enraged we were that folks in fallout were able to dialogue the final confrontation-- it made our combat focused character useless... that is why we sent a very tersely worded postcard to tim cain explaining that the more choices he gave other folks in fallout were the same degree he were robbing us o' the point and fun o' playing a combat character. bad tim. ... wait. that doesn't make sense. that makes us sound like a complete nut-job. the ability o' other folks to complete the same game w/o resorting to combat made our game less fun... robbed it o' a point, robbed it o' worth? that would be crazy talk-- complete gibbering nonsense that nobody in their right mind would believe, yes? *snort* "When people are Skipping massive swaths of game content because they deem it pointless and worthless, we're no longer talking about viability, nor is it "win/win"" ... this is actual the exact reason for implementing quest/task xp. if you make other options available, but make them literal worth less, then you discourage those other optional play styles. make dialoguey or stealthy or creative options worthless is exact what quest/task xp avoids. and 'round we go. HA! Good Fun!

both such routes is viable 'cause of quest/task experience awards, which would seem like kinda the point o' such a mechanic. everybody wins. ... no? there is still folks that says, "no"? am actual finally able to sympathize with strother martin. kinda a kewl name btw. HA! Good Fun!

is always naughty when people post only part of an article http://www.gallup.com/poll/166538/former-soviet-countries-harm-breakup.aspx "Overall, residents who are more educated are less likely to say the collapse harmed their country and more likely to say it benefited them." o' really? "Residents who say that "most people" in their country are afraid to openly express their political views are more likely to say that the collapse harmed their country than those who say that "no one" is afraid. This suggests the freedom they thought they might have after the fall of the Soviet Union has not materialized -- and in some cases, the situation may be even worse." so, is not that things were better before ussr, or that things were good in ussr, but that power vaccum made things worse? surprise? youth is also a major factor according to gallup pollsters. understandably, people who lost pensions and healthcare had an immediate stake in the loss o' ussr. "Adults between the ages of 15 and 44 -- some of whom were not even born or were very young at the time of the breakup -- are nearly three times as likely as those 65 and older to say the collapse benefited their countries. The picture is similar in all countries except Georgia, where residents in all age groups are as likely to say it was a benefit. Older residents in all 11 countries whose safety nets, such as guaranteed pensions and free healthcare, largely disappeared when the union dissolved are more likely to say the breakup harmed their countries." when a person not wanna link entire article, it is always good to ask: why? HA! Good Fun!

All proof lead to the contrary clarification for those new to the fora: Gromnir is ambivalent about pencil drawings in the descriptions. HA! Good Fun!

am not certain we care about the pencil drawings in the descriptions, but the actual icons were, in our estimation at their best in iwd... though we honest don't recall iwd2. bathed in blood armour and black swan armour icons were fantastic. yeah, the icons were tiny, but the iwd versions looked so much better than the bg or bg2 varieties. http://noctalis.com/dis/icewind/arm-plat.shtml HA! Good Fun!

probably not. however, you will know that the developers is equal frustrated when they start saying stuff such as, "it will be ready when it is ready." HA! Good Fun!

you may change your tune when you find out that they did indeed listen, but is still rejecting combat/kill xp. HA! Good Fun!

Quest are the objectives, everything that needs to be done to fullfill quest is a stepping stone to solve the objective. You can define it in any way you want. it actually doesn't matter for the present poll, 'cause whether you use quest or the "objective" as described in the previous poll, it precludes combat/kill xp... which is what this poll is demanding. am glad we could clear that up, 'cause some folks get confused by insignificant nomenclature and semantic distinctions. HA! Good Fun!

others may disagree, but we feel that wasteland 2 has benefited a great deal from beta feedback. the original wasteland 2 discouraged us from purchasing. recent wasteland 2 has convinced Gromnir to purchase wasteland 2. inexile not only made money from the beta funds they generated (perhaps that is a bad thing) but they did improve the game, and much o' the improvement were due to player feedback. PoE beta does not strike us as a beta such as inexile's wasteland 2 beta. the PoE beta may be helpful for hunting bugs, but obsdian is seeming very committed to a 2014 release. our beta input, we suspect, is extreme limited. yeah, we will help iron out hardware configuration bugs. we will also be able to give feedback on strictly numerical boosting talents, but clearly this ain't a beta such as wasteland 2 had. with time remaining to bughunt and add talents and actual finish the game, we suspect that beta feedback is o' limited and focused interest to the developers. is not necessarily a bad thing to ignore community late in development and simple make best game possible-- try and please the community, which never agrees on anything anyway (only slight hyperbole) is a sisyphean endeavor and a waste o' remaining time. nevertheless, the PoE beta is, while not exactly fraudulent, is perhaps a bit misleading. am not believeing that the developers is all that concerned with most board feedback o' the beta. HA! Good Fun!

apostrophes in a name make it exotic? *shrug* at the same time, it were a bit o' a fad a few years ago to hire grad student or "expert" linguists to create Genuine game languages. bioware did such a couple times, no? genuine new languages has, for the most part, left Gromnir unimpressed. am recalling that frank herbert only ever used five words o' fictional fremen in his books. am knowing Tolkien fascination is kinda a nerd prerequisite, but the fact that he created complete original languages never impressed Gromnir all that much. yeah, Tolkien were attempting to create a whole English Mythology, so perhaps he thought a core language were necessary foundation, but frankly (no pun) we prefer Dune to Fellowship of the Ring... and we expect that if we is ever murdered, our killer will beat us to death with The Silmarillion as kinda a final cruel joke. ... where were we? oh, yeah, apostrophes makes names more exotic... everybody knows that elf or grilvac names need inexplicable apostrophes. HA! Good Fun! ps we made up "grilvac"... shoulda' made it gr'lvac?

It isn't like this thread is even indicative of any significant portion of backers or that it's responses mean anything. This is a shades of grey issue but the poll only allows for black and white. Even then it isn't like "combat XP" is even pulling a convincing win. Out of 320 votes at the time of this posting combat xp is only winning by 20 votes. That's a huge 3 whole percent, what a massive margin. and don't forget the previous poll with more respondents. we have seen some crazy-arsed attempts at distinguishing nomenclature, but previous poll, regardless o' wording, specifically rejected combat/kill xp as part o' "completion of objectives." more than 70% either were in favor o' objective or didn't care. less than 30% wanted a mechanic that woulda' envisioned kill/combat xp as described in this poll. http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/61543-are-you-for-or-against-gaining-experience-points-only-for-completing-objectives/ HA! Good Fun!

"Objective XP and Quest XP are two different terms" that have been used interchangeably by many, frequent and often, and is not gonna satisfy the current folks arguing against quest xp regardless. *groan* you are suggesting a fine, and in your words "subtle" distinction 'tween objective and quest xp. this is a semantics argument. you claim that the nomenclature difference from the previous poll, makes it different than the issue specifically being debated and polled. play innocent or ignorant if you wish 'bout the implication is that past poll and current is not analogous, but the OP poster from previous poll made clear via following quotes: "Tim and I would rather not give XP for general killin' because it leads to a lot of weird/degenerate scenarios, but I have no problem with having quests oriented specifically around killing and receiving XP for achieving sub-objectives/the main goal." "Gameplay degeneration occurs when a player engages in gameplay not because they enjoy that gameplay but because the game's mechanics put the player at a disadvantage for not taking advantage of it. Rest spamming is one example. Wholesale slaughter/genocide is another. Quests that involve a peaceful option to resolve that get turned around after completion when the player murders the saved parties is a familiar expression of this sort of degeneration. If XP is linked to quests and objectives within quests, the player has much more freedom to resolve those quests in whatever way he or she wants, whether that means talking through it, fighting, sneaking around, or using some mixture of skills/scripted environment objects to reach the goal." however, if, in spite o' the above quotes you are still attempting to argue that polls is not truly analogous, then Gromnir makes obvious slippery slope argument when playing the semantics game. combat xp IS potential part o' quest and/or task or objective xp mechanics. however, combat xp and conversational xp is not subject o' specific discrimination in quest xp mechanics. if you really wanna go down path o' finding subtle differences where they does not actual exist, you is in for a serious slippery slope problem. the subtle difference you suggest is not so subtle. most folks in the current polls has been cautious to describe the alternative to combat xp as quest or quest/task xp, but even if they have not, is a distinction o' semantics only. "Don't we already have a thread or two dedicated to arguing XP?" seen after we posted... but we agree. am actual believing we have four or more such threads, which seems silly to us. HA! Good Fun!

Correction, that poll if for Objective XP, not Quest XP. Subtle but important difference. is not a meaningful difference. the current system is, for all intents and purposes, an objective xp mechanic. quibbles over nomenclature is silly, particularly when developers specific said that there would be no particular xp for "body count." in current build, folks got xp for simply entering the ogre cave. therefore, as can be seen, xp is not simple awarded for completion o' quest in even the current PoE builds. nevertheless, quibble over nomenclature is creating an issue that did not exist when the previous poll were formulated and is not meaningful now either. HA! Good Fun! edit: previous poll, not previous problem. Im not quibbling over nomenclature. In my borked game, I never received a single point of XP for any action. Other posters say they got XP for entering the ogre cave. So if that's how the system is going to work, incremental XP rewards doled out along the way vice one lump sum at the end of the "quest", then most people will be happy. Objective XP and Quest XP are completely different imo. we would be careful o' playing the slippery slope semantics game, 'cause it will become problematic for you. quest/task/objective xp does not discriminate against play-styles. at the time o' the previous poll, the developers had made clear that "body count" would not specific yield additional xp, but keep in mind that if a player does kill all enemies to accomplish a goal, then functionally they is getting xp for combat. at the same time, if a player uses stealth to avoid combat and then finds a diplomatic solution to the ogre problem, they is arguably getting xp for stealth and conversational abilities. argue semantics will not end well for you. furthermore, one need only watch the jorge and rose beta to see xp gain 'pon entering o' ogre cave. is admittedly a later build than the one you have access to, but you need simple watch the video to see objective/task xp being awarded... is not some kinda sneaky bit o' sleight o' hand that folks is trying to slip past gifted. you can see for yourself if you wish that PoE is awarding quest/task/objective/whatever, even if your build is complete bugged... such as is Gromnir's btw.. HA! Good Fun!

Correction, that poll if for Objective XP, not Quest XP. Subtle but important difference. is not a meaningful difference. the current system is, for all intents and purposes, an objective xp mechanic. quibbles over nomenclature is silly, particularly when developers specific said that there would be no particular xp for "body count." in current build, folks got xp for simply entering the ogre cave. therefore, as can be seen, xp is not simple awarded for completion o' quest in even the current PoE builds. nevertheless, quibble over nomenclature is creating an issue that did not exist when the previous poll were formulated and is not meaningful now either. HA! Good Fun! edit: previous poll, not previous problem.

New approaches are always going to met with some resistance. Rest assured Bradly & Josh that a sizable amount of your Beta Backers/Kickstarters are behind you with the XP system you have implemented for Pillars of Eternity. Don't let the incessant Trolls on that thread derail what you're trying to do with PoE. <3 a previous poll, with far more respondents, showed that 70% o' backers either preferred quest or didn't care. http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/61543-are-you-for-or-against-gaining-experience-points-only-for-completing-objectives/ the new polls are amusing, but far less dispositive or meaningful than one might suggest. HA! Good Fun!

Incorrect. Red Army forces operated alongside national communist parties (whom were quite popular as they were often the dominant resistance against the fascists) and were democratically elected either fully into power or as part of coalition governments. The Red Army itself, contrary to what many believed, evacuated the areas quite quickly and were basically entirely gone by the early 50's. ehm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Pact_invasion_of_Czechoslovakia Some of you guys were not paying attention in history class (if you are not from Russia, otherwise I understand that they dont teach that there) some of the naivety regarding the ussr is understandable. most folks only learn through history classes. Gromnir were hardly any kinda expert, but at least we went to former soviet russia during late 80s and early 90s... saw empty shelves in stores and had folks offering us a car for sony walkman cassette player. if we had brought more condoms with us, and colda' figured a way to smuggle them out o' russia, we coulda' earned a small fortune in diamonds. also, we got to see first hand just how much the Poles loved the soviet back in the 80s. that being said, for many folks, this is history... is something that happened in the past that they only hear 'bout from teachers or books. get some wacky professor at a fringe university, or read a book written by some kook and perhaps you got a rationale for believing craziness. it once were that publishing a book included expense that only a company with significant capital could think to embrace. it is a good thing that any private citizen can publish dozens or hundreds o' books and sell 'em on amazon, but there is also far less fact checking o' published works compared to the past... there is also less meaning to being published as is no longer something only reserved to the elite academic. "publish or perish" were the oft repeated refrain o' folks trying to make a career in academia. no more. any nut with a theory can publish a book, and not every college history professor is teaching history. for folks who only know o' ussr through books and professors, their education may be sadly but understandably lacking. HA! Good Fun!

Sam has to get cut and clear waivers to be signed onto the practice squad. He had a good preseason, but he is still undersized and the Rams are pretty deep at DT. It would not be surprising for another team to pick him up though, but at the worst he'll be on the practice squad. David Fales made the Bears lineup as the 3rd string QB. That kid will be starting by next year, I guarantee it. david fales starting. starting? well, as it is the bears, chances are they will need to go two or three deep into their qb depth chart next year. heck, fales may get a start this year if the bears have a typical qb season. even so, am thinking you might be having expectations just a wee bit high for fales, though the fact that trestman is his coach clearly helps. HA! Good Fun!

having a point and/or a rationale is hardly a prerequisite to bemoan, deride and complain 'bout flaws (real or imagined) of game development. also, please note the links to threads and posters from rpgcodex. you do not go to or get fair and open-minded from rpgcodex. "polarized" would be the least offensive o' the multitude o' appropriate descriptors we would use to illuminate codexian eccentricities. *sigh* this will not be the most ridiculous PoE thread we see in the coming months. HA! Good Fun!

sadly, we guarantee it will get more insane. HA! Good Fun!

It doesn't ignore it. It applies to on-hit effects as well (sorry, I haven't listed all possible effects that can be applied to weapons). If they're going to design a weapon and give it the "paralyze on Hit" property I expect they'll balance the duration of this effect taking said weapon's attack speed into account. am not believing we are communicating. Gromnir's fault. left hand weapon stuns. right hand weapon wounds. 2 h weapon stuns. ... advantage to 2h weapon load out. even if 2h weapon is given a longer stun, the advantage is still likely favoring 2 effects. as stated by another poster above, some weapons may be wielded 1h or 2h. this further complicates. gonna give potential 2 stun/wound effects to 2h weapons, but only 1 to 1h weapons? that becomes more difficult with weapons that can be wielded both as 1h or 2h... in fact, many attributes become more difficult to deal with once a single weapon can be wielded in 2 different fashions. *shrug* again, if the issue o' 1h v. 2h were such a simple issue to deal with, then we expect the dual wield advantage wouldn't be so darn ubiquitous in crpgs. it is-- dual-wield, at higher levels almost invariably becomes a WIN unless 2h is given massive damage benefits. am not seeing an issue of concern without further information. HA! Good Fun!

"I expect attribute bonuses to be applied with 'one-handed vs two-handed' potential in mind." an assumption on your part which still ignores other bonuses such as stunning and wounding and whatnot. aside: keep in mind that we ain't saying that josh configured this mechanic to deal with the seeming ubiquitous crpg benefit of dual wiled. however, Gromnir is observing that we can conceive o' a rational reason for giving an advantage to 2h. as such, am not gonna jump to conclusions that the included graphic disproportionate favors 2h in practical game terms. HA! Good Fun!

I wasn't really advocating realism here, but I appreciate your observation. I'd rather he push realism for attributes (as an aspect of role playing) than in weapon vs weapon balance. am suspecting the damage from 2 attacks with the 2h will be greater than 2 attacks with 2 medium weapons. however, please realize this is a mechanic for a game with magical weapons. each equipable slot allows for additional magical buffing. a theoretical general accuracy improvement conferred by a weapon could conceivable stack with a 2-weapon load out. 2 weapons that each grant a stat buff. 2 weapons that... etc. regardless o' damages, dual wield has almost always become a better approach at high levels as magic weapons allowed stacking o' benefits. a mechanic that recognizes the inherent superiority o' 2 equipable slots in a game world with magic equipment sounds like a good idea. gonna need to see if 2h actual gets enough of an advantage to make it worth the obvious penalty o' having one less equipable slot. HA! Good Fun! Weapon buffs (such as +fire damage) scale with base weapon damage in PoE, Gromnir. I think it's sensible to design the system so that, for instance, a magical accuracy bonus applies to the weapon that is providing it and not on both weapons if dual-wielding. Separate values for accuracy: http://thebitpulse.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/pe-ui-character-sheet.jpg So if that's the case (intuitive design) then your point is moot. extra damage is the least worrisome o' benefits. stat benefits, and secondary stat benefits as well as qualities such as stunning can be stacked or multiplied. HA! Good Fun!

am gonna need see actual implementation, but please note that your suggestion were not the way the ie games worked. even in games such as dragon age that attempted to balance 2h and dual-wielding more fairly ended up working in favor o' dual wield mostly 'cause o' the functional stacking o' magical equipment. many weapons in other games is capable o' being wielded one or 2h... such as spears. admittedly, am not recollecting if spears can be equipped 1h in PoE. nevertheless, such stuff is another possible balancing issue particularly where player crafting comes into play. the ability to stack and choose how to stack 2x the magic equipment is a significant advantage. *shrug* ours is simply guesswork, but we do recognize that frequent dual-wield ends up being advantageous 'cause o' load out benefits. an inherent 2h benefit to compensate does not strike us as unreasonable approach. HA! Good Fun!