Gromnir

Not weird at all. Alita looks like she does in the manga. am thinking it is a given that the manga is highly stylized. not photorealistic. maintaining such a manga ascetic for a single character is... odd. is jarring. is a curious choice. now imagine how folks would react if vector looked like he does in the manga? "weird" would be the most diplomatic criticism one would expect. HA! Good Fun!

Exactly. What else you read into it is up to you. I want them to be effective in Deadfire because they are fun abilities. Despite what you claim, the non-Priest summonables are not currently Exactly. "specific demand increase base damage? no, but lamenting the surfeit effectiveness o' such weapons precise 'cause o' absence o' increased damage." btw, parse quotes is a childish kinda misrepresentation. HA! Good Fun!

Funny thing is I didn't even say their base damage should be increased in the thread I started on them, just that they (the Wizard summonables as well as Firebrand) are currently weak. *chuckle* first paragraph "In Pillars of Eternity one of the defining features of the various Wizard summoned weapons (Concelhaut's Parasitic Staff, Citzal's Spirit Lance etc.) was their higher than normal base damage (Concelhaut's Staff had a base damage of 20-30 vs 14-20 for a normal Quarterstaff). This made all +Damage modifiers (in particular Might) that bit more powerful for them. In Deadfire they have the same base damage as their non-summoned versions." specific demand increase base damage? no, but lamenting the surfeit effectiveness o' such weapons precise 'cause o' absence o' increased damage. misrepresentation indeed. edit: couple more... for fun "The thing is, in PoE the thing that made it good wasn't really the draining (though that was nice), it was the high damage and accuracy bonus." "Yeah, Firebrand really relied on its high base damage to be good." HA! Good Fun!

[rayofsunshine]Things can always get worse [/rayofsunshine] we got a bit o' pith we borrowed from our sister and use almost daily: "at least i'm not on fire." am finding there is few situations, no matter how dire or hopeless, which makes being set ablaze a desirable alternative. even so, we do see tarantino as a curious choice for a star trek movie. sure, star trek has adopted more violence since tos days, but tarantino camp levels o' gore do not correspond with our expectations, and am thinking nobody will ever mistake tarantino for utopian. didn't actual read the linked article, but perhaps if tarantino did a kinda tangential star trek movie? not kirk and spock, but something insular and limited? a federation rescue attempt o' a ________ ambassador goes horribly wrong? whatever is federation equivalent o' a special forces team realizes/suspects they were set up to fail from the start and... *shrug* am thinking tangential makes more sense for tarantino than does anything dealing with enterprise and the core cast. HA! Good Fun!

"In the hands of a druid firebrand was nowhere near highly effective. In fact it was pretty bad." yeah, complete misrepresentation. *chuckle* sometimes folks say silly things and not realize how silly such is 'til somebody else identifies. HA! Good Fun! ps (edit) regardless o' jk's misrepresentations, the summoned weapons from poe allowed casters to, in conjunction with proper talent selections and spell layering, approach or exceed the martial power of other classes. to maintain the same dynamic in deadfire, wherein multiclass selection allows for a plethora o' options for equalling or exceeding the weapon powha o' any single class, maintaining the superiority o' summoned weapons is a highly suspect approach.

and no doubt the spirit lance needs its base damage increased, yes? HA! Good Fun!

for the most part we liked the psych tv series, but hated the shawn spencer character... which made it tough to like psych. liked gus and corbin bernsen and lassiter. shawn were too... d0uchey. am thinking we didn't get through more than 1/2 of season one. we did watch godless on netflix. not certain how we feel 'bout it. overall we enjoyed, but frequent it devolved into kinda camp levels o' silliness, and we weren't certain if such excesses were intentional. even so, the cast were excellent and we enjoyed the almost tarantino levels o' violence, so were worth our time. dunno, we enjoyed godless enough but somehow felt as if it wasted potential. HA! Good Fun!

the poe druid with appropriate talents were quite effective with a firebrand. any weapon focus, 2h weapon talent, scion of flame, savage attacks ('cause by late in the game, accuracy bloat were ez to achieve) could make almost any class see considerable benefit from the firebrand. even so, you are arguing Gromnir's point w/o realizing. thanks. the poe firebrand were not cause for concern in the hands o' the caster class which summoned. were only an issue with other classes such as barbarian, rogue and paladin. is precise why deadfire is different. and again, your identification o' the problem is all bassackwards and reversed. particular at lower levels when you ain't gonna have a plethora o' 1007ed magical weapons in your inventory, being able to summon a scaling weapon with an additional quality is a significant advantage to overall party power. earlier in the game when you don't have many options for equipping your party, the summoned weapons is a nice alternative, and it means another party member can wield one o' the few shiny weapons you possess. makes your party stronger if the warlock not need equip the party's best magic weapon... give to rogue or fighter instead. and as between a fine flail and the spiritual weapon for priests o' eothas, our level 6-9 beta templar summons the flail almost every battle, and am not regretting the time to cast as the duration for spiritual weapons (firebrand has an even longer duration) is almost 1 minute with our high intellect. am less likely to use firebrand, but against foes with particular poor burn armour, the firebrand is equal impressive. but again, the actual problem for deadfire summoned weapons is high levels. the summoned weapons is good alternatives at lower levels, but scaling quality ain't enough to compensate for the use o' limited spell slots. oh and compare firebrand to tidefall reveals the wacky pov you got. tidefall were the best great sword in the base game. were superb quality and possessed multiple beneficial qualities. firebrand, on the other hand, were a universal weapon, summoned by a second level druid spell... available at level 3. hypothetical hiravias with peasant weapon focus would get weapon focus benefits for the firebrand. forgemaster gloves, which were a 3-per-rest item, were available cheap as soon as you reached defiance bay. poe firebrand also did big burn damage-- foes with high resistance to crush/pierce/slash were frequent weaker to burn. firebrand were an impressive weapon and were situationally dominating, but compare to the best great sword in the game and find it lacking? HA! with all the multiclass combinations, increasing the base damage o' summoned weapons seems ill-advised. is no reason summoned weapons should be clear superior to equippable alternatives. there will be times when the summoned provide advantages to equipped, but folks looking for you-win talents/powhaz is exact what obsidian has been trying to avoid. however, we do foresee a problem at higher levels. am not doubting the +12 level warlock will respec out o' concelhaut's staff unless the staff scales more than simple quality. is monk problem all over again. HA! Good Fun! ps as we mentioned in other threads, we do believe some aspect o' universal should be returned to summoned weapons. am not necessarily seeing need for proficiency being conferred with any universal, but for barbarian multiclasses with weapon focus or for devoted fighter penalties, we believe something akin to poe universal should apply.

the caster class inclusion in poe were troubled from the start. caster class spells were gonna be per-encounter, until board erupted with collected nerd rage demanding vancian casting. obsidian caved. in addition, the caster classes themselves were offering the least unique gameplay o' the 11 poe classes as what most differentiated 'em were simple the spell catalogs made available to the casters at level-up. sure, obsidian tried to make the classes unique by doing grimoire stuff for the wizards and shifting for the druids, but genuine gameplay differences 'tween the caster classes were limited. we wouldn't mind a less shifter driven subclass. rangers got a sans-companion subclass after all. however, shifting is the unique gameplay aspect druids bring to the table and casters is already offering limited uniqueness o' gameplay. am thus not surprised the subclasses focus on shifting... and is not as if one need take a subclass anyways. HA! Good Fun!

so the summoned weapons ain't clear superior to the kinda weapons a typical party is likely to be equipping themselves with? instead you got weapons with same damage as the base weapon being replicated, in addition to unique qualities such as the burn/pierce for firebrand or the draining o' concelhaut's staff (pointing out how the staff is current bugged and not draining is hardly relevant.) as well as scaling quality (i.e. fine-legendary.) ... what's the problem? in poe, with certain builds, the forgemaster glove's firebrand were ridiculous op. in the hands o' a druid, the poe firebrand were mere highly effective. what made the firebrand wacky powerful were it's use by barbarians or paladins or whatever build somebody concocted to take advantage o' the firebrands enormous base burn damage. in poe, all summoned weapons is now subject to the same silliness as were resulting from forgemaster gloves, 'cause now there is multiclassing. high base damage for poe summoned weapons were no doubt meant to balance out the lack o' weapon damage powhaz inherent to the caster classes. didn't work exact as planned 'cause o' eventual talent bloat, but the summoned weapons in the hands o' casters were not as powerful as they woulda' been if wielded by other classes with more dedicated weapon powhaz. deadfire multiclassing necessitated a change to summoned weapons. gotta balance citzal's lance not only for a wizard but for a frenzied berzerker under the influence o' infuse with vital essence, eldritch aim, and deleterious alacrity, who then unleashes his brutal blow power. summoned weapons aren't clear superior to weapons a party is likely to find as they adventure in the deadfire? good. however, am thinking jk actual has the potential problem reversed, 'cause at the moment summoned weapons will be able to maintain a rough parity with 1007 weapons for levels we has seen. legendary quality draining staff won't mean much when the weapon alternatives for a level 18 warlock will be similar legendary weapons with multiple unique powers. the draining staff will become only situational useful, and given the more limited spell repertoire o' casters, situational useful is not a wise choice for a spell slot. is similar to the poe monk problem regarding fists. regardless o' monk fist scaling, it were better for a monk to equip a weapon in the later portions o' poe. will be a similar issue for concelhaut's staff, unless the staff gain's additional powhaz as well as quality. HA! Good Fun!

have now played a number o' druid/monk combos and am confident 'bout calling bs regarding the suggestion o' lack o' druid/monk synergies. monk/druid synergies is fantastic. am actual preferring to go with vanilla monk when combined with druid. helwalker makes sense when combined with a lifegiver druid, but particular for longer battles, lifegiver is too constricting for us. nevertheless, we can see any number o' subclass combos as being effective. that said, we recent played through the ruins portion o' the game with multiple druid/monks, and we were much enjoying... inspite o' our self. druid, regardless o' their poe/deadfire efficacy, is thematic unappealing to us. perhaps 'cause we went to Cal and were surrounded by too many birkenstock bedecked druid wannabees who stank o' patchouli and never hesitated to share their opinions 'bout global warming and renewable energy and spotted owls? *groan* regardless, we do not gravitate to the druid class when making a pc. may seem like a small thing but both druid and monk and druid have alchemy in common. alchemy enhances potion use, so while atheletics is an obvious skill choice for any melee combatant, alchemy looks to be the real winner as one levels a bit. can functional start with 3 in alchemy depending on background choice. is a likely overlooked benefit. with the bear spirit shift, Gromnir gets an 11 armour rating, and at the moment such armour is conferring near invulnerability. druids got a number o' excellent cone spells, which we tend not to use often as our squishy casters is sitting behind tanks with wands and tower shields. cone spells is much more likely to be consistent useful when utilized by a front-liner such as our greasy storm bear. (am not one who ordinarily names builds, but such is what we call the bear ascetic we has been testing.) vile thorns is getting regular use from the greasy stom bear, in spite o' the small cone. nice sickened affliction conferred. 12,10,15,15,16,10. is not min-maxed, but is highly effective with corrode wild strike combining (synergizing) effective with the monk's lightning charged swift strikes. under the effect o' a priest's divine favor, am doing ridiculous high damage in bear form. cast returning storm at start o' combat is near as effective in deadfire as it were in poe. if our greasy storm bear does take damage and is too far away from a priest to get a restoration or holy radiance targeted on the greasy storm bear, the ascetic's own healing powers is arguable superior to the merc priest's anyways. unlike the priest, the druid has fewer affliction nullifiers in his/her repertoire, but 'tween monk's clarity o' agony and the quick conferred by swift strikes, a mountain dwarf, coastal aumaua or wild orlan is gonna be able to shrug off multiple afflictions... and a wood elf will laugh at any dex affliction targeting 'em. etc. am finding the greasy storm bear to be mild entertaining and thematic appealing in spite o' our tendency to be dismissive of druids. numerous synergies exist 'tween the ascetic classes and with other members o' the mercenary or custom parties. HA! Good Fun!

currently, sworn enemy/rival is not affecting (at the very least) priest spells and abilities when a templar targets a foe who has been marked. holy radiance and divine mark, for example, when utilized by a templar against a marked foe do not benefit from damage or accuracy bonuses. nothing in the description of sworn enemy/rival suggests the benefits is limited to weapon accuracy and damage. am assuming the paladin multiclass should benefit from spell accuracy and damage... or maybe not. is possible this ain't a bug but is only an ambiguity. as an aside, another quirky priest bug is resulting from the lash damage of spiritual weapons, such as the flail o' eothas, being applied to spell damage. a templar with a spiritual flail equipped will add corrode damage when utilizing the aforementioned divine mark. HA! Good Fun!

one o' the multiclasses we has had the most fun with is a goldpact knight/priest of eothas. is clear not a powergamer build. even so, the upcoming strength/might/resolve changes will have 0 impact 'pon the build. 12,10,15,15,16,10. weapon proficiencies is flail, club and greatsword. got another paladin in the party, so lack o' an aura is not an issue. the gold coat provides +4 ar, which at the moment is pretty keen even when wearing the fine chain or scale which is available in the beta without resorting to GiveItem. firebrand is doing considerable flame/pierce damage and with the greatsword modal, sworn rival and flames o' devotion active, it produces silly crit numbers-- is a better weapon than some suggest. 'course most o' the time we dual wield the summoned flail and a fine club. chunk. chunk. chunk. ... folks telling us the hybrid classes and ciphers "can't do the job," or other such nonsense is being ridiculous. melee combat numbers we got back from our templar is easily the best in a party o' a votary, skald, vanilla mage and vanilla priest... and is not a little bit better. with the club and flail modals, we can choose to lower will or reflex saves by 25 at our discretion... comes in mighty handy if we wanna use an empowered divine mark. priests typical have numerous spells which target will, but the priest o' eothas is gonna be getting more fire spells in the next build, fire spells which often target reflex. as such, even w/o considering damage output, the weapon choices come in handy. drawback: maintaining the devotions would be a bit o' a challenge in a real game. try and maximize rational, stoic, honest and benevolent all at the same time will take effort. we would much prefer a classless system. even so, am thinking folks is getting 'caught up in the math they see on the message boards w/o bothering to see the actual math in the combat logs. obsidian has provided more viable options than most is aware. and beyond the math, many 'o the s'posed gimped and crippled builds is not only highly effective, but fun. with our numerous tested templars and contemplatives we can play characters who is not only potent in weapon combat, but they is effective affliction killers and buffers... with the frequent empowered damage spell thrown into the mix for funsies. HA! Good Fun!

and fine by Gromnir... if you end where we did. we would prefer to keep universal so summoned weapons would benefit from weapon styles talents and potential from weapon focus, and we see no need to make blights a particular weapon type. but if name change is important, it don't bother us. HA! Good Fun!

no contest honorable mentions warning: south park sweary HA! Good Fun! ps we limited to "songs," so numerous musical compositions were excluded from consideration.

disagree. the entire point o' devoted is you get big advantages with One weapon type. should be disadvantages for using other weapons. universal and soulbound shouldn't be a complete and obvious nullification o' devoted drawbacks. am suspecting, once devoted is fixed, most folks choosing the devoted subclass is gonna opt for a weapon with multiple damage types. sword does slash and pierce. warhammer does crush and pierce. choose a devoted weapon which only does one kinda damage type is gonna be quite painful when facing a foe with immunity or particular high armour vs. ______. such a result is as it should be. devoted benefits is big, so penalty should hurt. a soulbound or summoned weapon which do not provide devoted penetration bonus but nevertheless suppresses devoted accuracy penalty will still be o' great value to the devoted. strikes us as good balancing. HA! Good Fun!

am gonna disagree 'bout making the devoted proficient with all universal/soulbound weapons. at the same time, we believe the devoted's penalties for not being proficient should be suppressed when using a universal weapon. should work similar for priests and mages with summoned weapons. if bob the devoted/barbarian finds The Morningstar Of Ultimate Doom, a soulbound weapon, and equips it, he should get the benefits o' appropriate weapon talents w/o gaining the actual proficiency. can't use the morningstar to reduce fort saves, but bob shouldn't face the penalty for use 'cause his devoted weapon is the sabre. also, am thinking bob shouldn't gain the devoted's penetration bonuses for using proficient weapons when using the soulbound morningstar. however, as with poe, weapon focus and other weapon talents should apply when appropriate. if bob took one hand weapon style, it shouldn't apply to the soulbound morningstar. converse, perhaps it would be appropriate to have bob's weapon focus talent for proficient weapons apply to universal/soulbound... is kinda a grey area. regardless, am thinking, at the very least, devoted penalties for non-proficient weapon use should be suppressed. the benefits o' the devoted is excessive if they is applied to a wide range o' weapons, including all universals. however, the developers is kinda working 'gainst the purpose o' soulbounds and universals if one need proficiency to get advantage to their use. am thinking priestly and wizard summons for non devoted should work similar to what we suggested 'bove for devoted. don't provide the proficiency modal, but allow appropriate weapon talents to apply. a fighter/wizard or barbarian/wizard is likely to have weapon talents. apply such talents where appropriate, but do not provide the proficiency modal. but again, in spite o' the response from obsidian in this thread, am most curious to know how universal/soulbounds were intended to function in deadfire. HA! Good Fun!

many of the current possible beta builds is extreme potent, but almost invariably, the efficacious builds is so potent 'cause o' weapon damage. the deadfire penetration scheme is limiting, but not difficult to overcome with the correct weapon and ability choices. offensive casters, however, have long cast/recovery times and far fewer options for overcoming penetration than do weapon users. ... is gonna be... interesting. tough to make casters more vital w/o creating possibilities for even less balanced weapon user builds. HA! Good Fun!

has possibly already been mentioned, but we did not find via search... benefits from sworn rival and sworn enemy stack. sworn rival benefits should replace sworn enemy bonuses, but is instead being added. have only checked with a fanatic (vanilla barbarian/kind wayfarer) but sworn rival accuracy and damage bonuses is effective doubled. was gonna post a screenshot, but we got a ctd. if this is an unknown bug, we will create a screenshot. HA! Good Fun!

Giving any character base Intelligence resistance probably isn't going to happen, because it would make Berserker the most overpowered thing imaginable. Do I want a huge amout of extra Mig and Con with nearly no appreciable downsides? Why yes, I think I do. Yeah, and if you give anyone Per resist then the blunderbuss becomes amazing. Oh well I'm out of ideas berserker/wizard is already kinda cheese at the moment as infuse with vital essence has a long duration. base 40 seconds for smart And fit? create a wood elf or wild orlan berserker/wizard and frenzy while under the influence o' infuse with vital essence... and as almost every Gromnir party has a priest casting dire blessing at the start o' combat, got all but one stat affliction covered. so a strong and immune-to-almost-everything build which is enjoying over-the-top penetration and a goodly assortment o' armour/deflection buffing spells? HA! Good Fun!

Great suggestion Gromnir! I totally forgot about that feature. How could I? This would really be a very useful addition to the game. Let's beat the big drum for this! Maybe also put it into the backer beta feedback/discussion? feel free to repost or alter as you see fit. Gromnir has no sense o' proprietorship regarding ideas which might improve the game. a better game is all we want. HA! Good Fun!

kinda an aside, but am thinking trap detection issues may be less significant than they seem. our mercenary party is not well geared compared to a similar level'd poe party. am not saying deadfire will have same 1007 progression as poe, but is reasonable to assume analogous gearing. resting bonuses is not active and food choices is also limited. 'tween resting bonuses, food and gear, am doubting a 16 perception check for traps will be any real challenge for the typical level 6-8 deadfire party. *shrug* am thinking trap detection balance is current misleading. HA! Good Fun!

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/94650-devoted-and-universal-weapons/?p=1954036 have tried to get developer response a couple times in a couple different threads. HA! Good Fun!

am not sure 'bout other folks, but am spending much time creating custom parties. the thing is, we do frequent replicate previously generated builds. is a vanilla priest and a vanilla wizard we have utilized in better than 1/2 parties we created. is a skald (no multi-class) which gets use in 'bout 33% of custom parties. etc. am not certain how tough it would be for obsidian to add, but would be convenient if we could save at least a limited number o' adventurer profiles so we would not need recreate each hireling from scratch. might seem like a little thing... well, it is a little thing. even so... HA! Good Fun!

That's what I don't understand about this change. It was made so resolve wouldn't be such a huge dump stat and be more useful to more characters. So we turn might/strength into an even bigger dump stat than resolve was for anyone who relies on spells or healing? This is what was so annoying about the original Eternity Beta and why I didn't play it much. There were no subtle fixes, everything was the shotgun overcompensate approach, then slowly step it back, sometimes it never got stepped back enough. What's most hilarious about this, is now Con is actually more desirable for a caster than might/strength. well, keeping the classes more insular and discrete will allow for limited corrections. however, the issue with resolve were a general problem facing most players. were gonna require a broad stroke. karkarov does identify the new problem insofar as strength and casters is concerned. pure casters has flipped one dump stat for another. not a fix at all for such folks. however, the stat issue being addressed were resolve's negligible use to more than casters, yes? other than tanks, any poe build could use resolve as a dump stat. the change to deadfire resolve gives the stat vitality to many additional builds. at the same time, a large number o' deadfire builds is continuing to depend 'pon strength, including a goodly number o' wizards, priests and druids. in another thread we mentioned a helwalker/sage build which is doing impressive damage precise 'cause even at level 1 the player is able to achieve +35 strength. yeah, casters flip might for resolve and only real difference is they need be more aware o' fort saves. paladin tanks is gonna see considerable gains to their non-weapon powhaz, as if they needed a boost. even so, the dynamic has changed considerable for a large number o' other builds. was an endemic issue. needed a blanket fix. btw, am not saying obsidian's solution is what we woulda' done or even that we like the change, but the reason for the change makes sense. am gonna give the new build a try and see how it plays. HA! Good Fun! ps am not a balancing expert or anything o' the sort, but one can see from our default stat spread which we included in this thread, we ain't an optimizer. am nevertheless enjoying considerable success in the deadfire beta regardless o' penetration issues and bugs... and not the beetle kinda insect/bugs which made the poe beta a nightmare for a bit. for all the current issues which is needing work, deadfire is less unbalanced/overwhelming than were poe at a similar stage. even so, am recognizing we got many hours o' poe experience, so am not coming into the game as a dewy-eyed innocent circa summer 2014. situations is not complete analogous.