Hurlshort

I'd probably have to run a comparison of other wingers that play a similar role to fully explain it, but I'm much too lazy to do that. The salary cap is $64.3 million this year. Clowe is a 2nd line winger at best, 3rd line if he plays like he did last year. With some quick research I noticed that Johan Franzen, a comparable player when they are both healthy, is a million less as a cap hit than Clowe. I'd say Franzen is better too, so that makes it seem to me like they overpaid. I guess it is fine if the Devils don't run into cap trouble, but they don't have that much room and down the road that contract can become a burden.

Volo, your responses to my posts don't seem to have anything to do with what I've written. We have been talking about real situations where people are aggressively resisting arrest, and you are making up scenarios. At this point, I'm going to stop responding to you.

Because there is a salary cap and you can only afford so many players? I mean there are a lot of statistical ways you can break it down, but he did score 3 goals last season, was injured for awhile, sometimes takes bad penalties, and lacks speed. That's a decent percentage of the salary cap to devote to a player coming off those issues. I like the guy and hope he is able to get back to his 20 goal, 50 points average, but I wouldn't be comfortable gambling that much on it.

What in the world are you talking about? Your odds of getting your neck broken are way greater if you are resisting arrest. That seems like common sense. Also how often do people successfully fight off the cops and then prove their innocence? I enjoy the movie The Fugitive, but it's hardly reality. Do you recommend getting into car chases to dispute traffic tickets as well?

A documentary about Sierra On-Line is being made, looks like they've got all the right interviews. I pledged for a DVD, I remember going on a tour of the company on Oakhurst when I was about 12, it was magical. Their goal is a bit high, hopefully they can make it.

Krookie, I hope the Ryan Clowe signing works out for you, but that is too much money for him. He's a gritty guy with good hands, but he's got no speed. $3 million a season should be his ceiling.

Understandably took exception and struggled a bit is the part that gets me, I don't understand that. If the police are coming at me, I'm going to do my best to not escalate the situation. If it is a case of mistaken identity, it can be cleared up much quicker if I am not struggling.

It taught me that I'd die of dysentery or be swept out of my wagon by a swollen river if I ever traveled west of the Mississippi. Those are all very important lessons to learn.

Now that I think about it, every cop I know has a college degree. I think that might actually be really important. I am willing to admit that every police department is different, and there are a lot of flawed departments out there. I guess I am lucky that in the area I live in, the police have a very good reputation, both at the county level and the city. That being said, I still believe that the majority of police officers are out there to serve and protect. If they are not trained properly, if citizen complaints are not being addressed, then that lies on the people running the departments. Getting all indignant towards the guys and gals who are the first people to respond when you call out for help seems wrong.

I also have no interest in the end game.

As a whole? I would need to see more evidence that police officers as a whole are not up to that standard. alanschu already pointed out that the day to day good cop stuff simply doesn't make the news. All the high profile cases we've talked about have resulted in the officers losing their jobs or worse. I know quite a few cops, they all take their jobs seriously and they are the kind of people I would want to show up at my door if I needed help. None of them fit some bully archetype that malcador keeps ranting about. If you have a bad experience with a police officer, you can actually make his/her life miserable. Filing a complaint is just the first step, as nkkk illustrated in that other thread, you can file lawsuits and use the media to put pressure on the department. edit: I tried to look up the detail on the cop who arrested her daughter's boyfriend, it doesn't say what happened after the investigation. He was suspended, and faced either additional training or termination. He also was sued by the parents.

I agree that police officers should be held to a high standard. I also believe the should be given respect until they fail to meet that standard.

I actually really enjoyed our parade today, we got a spot in the shade and the kids had a blast. But fireworks have never sparked my interest.

Donner was targetting the families of police officers, he he hardly seems like a reliable character witness

I am happy that fireworks are illegal in my town. We have a big show the city puts on, and there are always a few yahoos, but it keeps it safer.

Yes, the amount of over reactive vitriol in this thread is astounding.

If I started pepper spraying our developers or support teams, I would probably be out of a job pretty soon I am really ok with that guy losing his job.

Ah, I was confusing the bart cop with the davis cop. So he lost his job for pepper spraying, that sounds about right. You guys are pretty quick to drop the axe on people. Hopefully you hold yourself to the same standard in your own career. There is an entire procedure for filing complaints against cops, and most departments have an entire division committed to investigating officers. It may not always work, but you folks make it sound like they've got free reign to loot and pillage.

There are plenty of consequences. The dad who arrested the boyfriend was suspended. The UC Davis cop was put in prison. Cops lose their jobs over brutality allegations on a regular basis.

Nobody has defended those actions. A few of us are saying those are not the typical actions of a police officer.

I doubt they had authorization, they would need a judge to sign off on it. It's funny that Volourn is in complete agreement with me here but is yelling at me in the other cop thread edit: I can see why someone would not let the cops stakeout in their house. It gets you involved in a domestic violence case. What happens if the neighbor doesn't go to prison, or gets out in a year, and you still have to live next to him/her?

That female cop is trying to protect her partner, who is getting pummeled. All she has is a night stick (I'm not familiar enough with Finnish police, but are they security guards?) and she is not doing any damage against that guy with it. I would consider her justified in shooting him. Protocol would dictate that she should warn him she will fire if he does not move away from her partner and get down on the ground. None of these scenarios are a simply fist fight between an officer and a citizen, I don't know where you are getting that. These are aggressive guys resisting arrest. Also, people die in fistfights. This isn't a video game, unarmed attackers can do plenty of damage to a cop. If you want to show me a scenario where the cop starts the fight, I'll call them a bad cop.

If you had me as a math teacher, you would be screwed, I'm terrible with numbers I did use Expedition: Conquistadors this year in class, it worked out pretty well. I've also used Total War clips as unit intros, and I talk about games in my discussions regularly. Whatever keeps them awake

The police in the US need to have just cause or a warrant to enter any private property in the US. These two officers clearly had neither, hence the lawsuit.

Volourn, when did I defend bad cops? Why are you lying about what I said? We were talking about this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQvMJMj1GVg&feature=player_embedded In all 3 clips, the cops are responding to a violent attacker. Did you even watch the video? These are the unarmed people you are so vigorously defending. The first guy is the worst, he is on top of the officer pounding him into the ground. Please enlighten me as to what the officers are doing that is over the line in these videos.