JFSOCC

I love quests where you have to explore a haunted library and in the restricted library there's an awesome spell as your reward. Or a quest for a master smith where you have to find the right ores, craft your own weapon, and be rewarded with a customised weapon of +5 awesomeness. Or a rogue who has beaten an obstacle course gets rewarded with climbing gear and training, allowing him or her to scale some buildings for other entrances. IE pick up the cooler abilities and spells by playing through the game, not just levelling up.

Those are strongholds by another name though. we're arguing semantics. a stronghold in this case is any of those things, your assassin den, your druid circle, you trading outpost, your brothel. Personally I wouldn't make it class based, but rather faction based.

As much as I love complex characters, we have to work together as a team, and I hope to see a team dynamic.

I think the best alternative, one which keeps every place in the game interesting right up till the end, is to repopulate areas with new quests after certain triggers are met, like main quest progression. So you'll don't just do all the quests in an area and move on, never to revisit. Rather, progressing in the story allows you to come back to old ground and experience new content. I think that's a good way to stagger quests.

I was thinking, maybe armour class could increase stamina consumption of abilities. that way, everyone can have any armour, and everyone has to make a weighed decision whether the defence is worth the adjusted stamina costs for their abilities.

I was thinking more musical, but this works too.

Minecraft is 3d Terraria, which also a cool game. I tend to play these games intensively for a while and then not ever touch them again.

Lol, then wait and come back after you've played it for two years... 2 years is a lot of value for money TBH I don't expect to be playing Project Eternity for that long.

that's ridiculous, this is still a game we're talking about. If I have no idea something is going on, it should have no bearing on my game.

So a spambot necro'ed this thread, and now discussion starts again?

You could have a few quests with timers, and then warn the player if he's taking on more than one timed quest.

you're telling someone who has discovered minecraft last week and has been totally addicted to it, how crap it is. I have to disagree. it's very immersive, the nether is scary, you make your own challenges (quest) you have total decision power what you'll do next. And it's constantly getting updates with new features.

How about minecraft? Everything you do there is your decision. It's lots of agency, if not reactivity.

I believe the intent behind this topic is that failure, rather than being "You don't get anything good/nothing really happens," it is more that different consequences result from it that actually affect the future of the plot/story/gameplay. All too often, it's "save timmy and everyone cares and things happen because of it, etc, or fail to save timmy, and none of that stuff happens, and that's the end of it." It's like the whole world is solely designed for you to not "fail" given situations. Timmy was kidnapped by Bandits? Well, there's no teaming up with the Bandits for the ransom money. If you don't save Timmy from them and do the "good" thing, you simply fail. That's a negative thing, gameplay-wise. You literally get less-than-nothing out of it. No that is not what I meant While I am not against having many different possible outcomes, when I talk about failure, that's what I mean. I mean that it should be possible to have entire quest paths become impossible because you failed. This is not a problem if the quest density is high

I agree with most of this, except that the second pic didn't need to stats page to be directly visible, if you level fairly slowly you should know the stats of your chars. and you could have them in another view. but otherwise, much better use of screen real estate.

THAT IS NEVER THE CASE. DON'T FORCE PLAYERS ON A PATH, THAT LEADS TO LINEAR GAMEPLAY AND IS UNIVERSALLY HATED BY RPG'ERS EVERYWHERE. IF IT'S COOL WE'LL LEARN ABOUT IT. Edit: about the UI: I don't need it to be minimalist, but it could have it's own style, this one is too much a copy of the old games without any updates. like Indira said, it's 2013, we can do better.

You can fail by not meeting your objectives. IE: "Save little timmy from drowning in the well" "timmy drowned, quest failed"

Hey that's what these discussion forums are for. Nobody who is here doesn't care about P:E. Share and argue your views!

If I could import my own images, that'd be fantastic too.

Computers have logic without emotion. Emotion and logic are two separate realms. They're both products of the brains capable of them, and thus can be influenced and overridden by each other, but logic isn't an extension of emotion. Logic can and does exist outside of the realm of biology and emotion. Math doesn't have emotions, and yet it is the purest, most infallible form of logic, capable of describing the universe and predicting unknowns about it with unparalleled accuracy. Emotion drives humans to engage in logical pursuits, but logic is not rooted in emotion. Emotion overwhelmingly leads humans to make irrational decisions, not rational ones. In the case of psychopaths, it varies. Spree-killers who go on a one-off rampage are usually driven to do so by stresses in their circumstance (and may not be psychopaths in truth,) but most successful serial killers use reason and plan their crimes ahead of time, often choosing targets on the basis of minimizing their chances of being caught (a rational course of action.) While it's the pursuit of a twisted pleasure that drives such behavior, they can still use rational thought to plan their actions in order to avoid the negative consequences that would come of being caught. In other words, emotionally defective or damaged people incapable of empathy are still wholly capable of using logic and reason. People who've suffered severe trauma can still be functioning members of society, it's not a given that all victims of certain traumas are all psychotic pedophiles or drug-addicted husks. I may rephrase, Perhaps you can have logic without emption, but you cannot have rational behaviour without it. I know it's counter-intuitive. There is this book called "Brain rules" written by a neuro-biologist named John Medina, who explains it much better than I could. I'd need to re-read it to make the argument, however. it's been a while.

I actually think a few quests (or quest stages) like this should be there. Some chance and randomness are part of combat - is having even a tiny bit of it in quests that bad? Just make reprocussions sensible. Quest faliure doesn't mean an end to everything. You done 4 quests for the brotherhood and failed the 5th? Well, that shouldn't halt your progress. You'd have to really screwing things up for a faction to kick you out completely. Good point, however, I do believe that sometimes having the door shut in your face is OK. maybe you get one failure before the faction you work for labels you incompetent. Or it could vary by faction.

Not exactly, it's just that emotion is inseparable from the way we think. As contradictory as it sounds, you can't have logic without emotion. At the most basic level, it tells you what your priorities are. This is why emotionally damaged or under-developed people are often the perpetrators of the most heinous crimes.

With such raving testimonials, I guess I'll have to give it a try.

I've been thinking about this for a while. It's one of the many things I think have been lost over the last two decades: The ability to fail and continue the game. Now, for the main quest this is obviously the end. But in a content rich environment it should be perfectly OK to have the player easily fail their tasks and yes, have doors close on them. One of the major problems with games lacking challenge these days is that a player failing a quest or questline can end up seriously disadvantaged. So you often see that quests are fairly basic, lacking complexity or challenge. It's easy to get it right. But that shouldn't have to be the case Because one of the greatest enjoyments you can get from a game is succeeding at something difficult. Failing and coming back to retry, and that sweet victory when you finally figure out how to succeed. And I think this philosophy applies to quests as well. In a world which has a high density of content, it doesn't generally matter if players don't succeed at everything they do. Sure, many players may reload (which is why long, multi-stage quests are desired!) But if there is more to do, then it's OK for us to occasionally see a door closed. ESPECIALLY if you're already particularly invested in this. For instance you've joined a faction, and done quite a bit of quests for them already, and then suddenly you fail one tragically. You now cannot proceed with this faction any more. That'll be a serious hit to the player. It'll get your attention. "This **** is for real!" and lend some weight to doing quests. Quest investment will certainly lead players to be more immersed in what they are doing. I think of games like Assassins creed, where if you fail the game actually resets you to the last checkpoint and lets you retry. You get to do EVERYTHING and EVERYTHING right. Which is boring and narratively weak. Her name is Mary Sue, good at everything. I'm not saying I fear this won't happen, but I feel it is worthy of discussion.

Quiet Eyes Security. Sometimes when a powerful political figure or merchant goes to a party, his life is at risk. And while he might want some protection, he also wants to generally get on with business. I mean, it doesn't really do to enter a party with an army in tow, now does it? Quiet Eyes is a small organisation which provides security tailored to the whims of the rich. Want to attend a party and have security? Hire an escort from Quiet Eyes. She'll be a beauty on your arm and a bodyguard no-one expects. Wish to organise a feast but expect bad company? The staff will be as deadly as they are good waiters. Going to the market? Quiet Eyes will have their men and women in the crowd go out before you, you won't even realise they're there. Quiet eyes provides unseen security. Their members are trained in recognising threats, scouting out areas unseen, memorizing escape routes, dealing with intruders... Quietly as to not disturb the party, defensive combat, and basic etiquette. Quiet Eyes generally only works through referrals, as they want to avoid dealing with unsavoury character. The client doesn't get to know their guard until the last moment, and it is (generally) understood that they should not go blabbing the identity of those in their employ. Fees are pretty steep, steep enough that contracts are usually not longer than a day, though longer contracts have happened. The Organisation gets 80% of the fee, 20% goes to the members, specialist or particularly skilled members do get a bigger take. And it is not unheard of that tips are given by the wealthy patrons if they are particularly impressed. Quiet Eyes provides etiquette and combat training opportunities for its members, specialist gear, job opportunities, and protects their identity. The nature of the work also allows members to brush elbows with some of the more powerful men and women, which may benefit them in the long run. Working for Quiet Eyes requires skill, and not everyone will be equipped to join. Generally rogues, wizards, ciphers and monks are considered to be the most suitable employees for Quiet Eyes, although anyone is welcome to try for membership. Quiet Eyes is run by a Dwarf and she only responds to the name Quiet Eyes. Among membership there's a pool going for whomever can find out what her real name is, although it is agreed that it is an apt nickname. Quiet Eyes is soft spoken, speaks accentless Aedyran, and doesn't let much out. She's a hard bargainer and fairly strict. "No" is usually the end of it. All contracts are brokered through herself and anyone taking on a security contract while working for her will find him or herself without work. Through her work she's garnered quite a bit of influence and while she's careful not to waste favours, she is not afraid to throw her proverbial weight around. Players meeting the proper pre-requisites may join the organisation. Players succeeding many assignments may eventually be asked to help expand and lead the organisation elsewhere. Quiet Eyes has great ambition, but it's limited to her business only.