JFSOCC

you're telling someone who has discovered minecraft last week and has been totally addicted to it, how crap it is. I have to disagree. it's very immersive, the nether is scary, you make your own challenges (quest) you have total decision power what you'll do next. And it's constantly getting updates with new features.

How about minecraft? Everything you do there is your decision. It's lots of agency, if not reactivity.

I believe the intent behind this topic is that failure, rather than being "You don't get anything good/nothing really happens," it is more that different consequences result from it that actually affect the future of the plot/story/gameplay. All too often, it's "save timmy and everyone cares and things happen because of it, etc, or fail to save timmy, and none of that stuff happens, and that's the end of it." It's like the whole world is solely designed for you to not "fail" given situations. Timmy was kidnapped by Bandits? Well, there's no teaming up with the Bandits for the ransom money. If you don't save Timmy from them and do the "good" thing, you simply fail. That's a negative thing, gameplay-wise. You literally get less-than-nothing out of it. No that is not what I meant While I am not against having many different possible outcomes, when I talk about failure, that's what I mean. I mean that it should be possible to have entire quest paths become impossible because you failed. This is not a problem if the quest density is high

I agree with most of this, except that the second pic didn't need to stats page to be directly visible, if you level fairly slowly you should know the stats of your chars. and you could have them in another view. but otherwise, much better use of screen real estate.

THAT IS NEVER THE CASE. DON'T FORCE PLAYERS ON A PATH, THAT LEADS TO LINEAR GAMEPLAY AND IS UNIVERSALLY HATED BY RPG'ERS EVERYWHERE. IF IT'S COOL WE'LL LEARN ABOUT IT. Edit: about the UI: I don't need it to be minimalist, but it could have it's own style, this one is too much a copy of the old games without any updates. like Indira said, it's 2013, we can do better.

You can fail by not meeting your objectives. IE: "Save little timmy from drowning in the well" "timmy drowned, quest failed"

Hey that's what these discussion forums are for. Nobody who is here doesn't care about P:E. Share and argue your views!

If I could import my own images, that'd be fantastic too.

Computers have logic without emotion. Emotion and logic are two separate realms. They're both products of the brains capable of them, and thus can be influenced and overridden by each other, but logic isn't an extension of emotion. Logic can and does exist outside of the realm of biology and emotion. Math doesn't have emotions, and yet it is the purest, most infallible form of logic, capable of describing the universe and predicting unknowns about it with unparalleled accuracy. Emotion drives humans to engage in logical pursuits, but logic is not rooted in emotion. Emotion overwhelmingly leads humans to make irrational decisions, not rational ones. In the case of psychopaths, it varies. Spree-killers who go on a one-off rampage are usually driven to do so by stresses in their circumstance (and may not be psychopaths in truth,) but most successful serial killers use reason and plan their crimes ahead of time, often choosing targets on the basis of minimizing their chances of being caught (a rational course of action.) While it's the pursuit of a twisted pleasure that drives such behavior, they can still use rational thought to plan their actions in order to avoid the negative consequences that would come of being caught. In other words, emotionally defective or damaged people incapable of empathy are still wholly capable of using logic and reason. People who've suffered severe trauma can still be functioning members of society, it's not a given that all victims of certain traumas are all psychotic pedophiles or drug-addicted husks. I may rephrase, Perhaps you can have logic without emption, but you cannot have rational behaviour without it. I know it's counter-intuitive. There is this book called "Brain rules" written by a neuro-biologist named John Medina, who explains it much better than I could. I'd need to re-read it to make the argument, however. it's been a while.

I actually think a few quests (or quest stages) like this should be there. Some chance and randomness are part of combat - is having even a tiny bit of it in quests that bad? Just make reprocussions sensible. Quest faliure doesn't mean an end to everything. You done 4 quests for the brotherhood and failed the 5th? Well, that shouldn't halt your progress. You'd have to really screwing things up for a faction to kick you out completely. Good point, however, I do believe that sometimes having the door shut in your face is OK. maybe you get one failure before the faction you work for labels you incompetent. Or it could vary by faction.

Not exactly, it's just that emotion is inseparable from the way we think. As contradictory as it sounds, you can't have logic without emotion. At the most basic level, it tells you what your priorities are. This is why emotionally damaged or under-developed people are often the perpetrators of the most heinous crimes.

With such raving testimonials, I guess I'll have to give it a try.

I've been thinking about this for a while. It's one of the many things I think have been lost over the last two decades: The ability to fail and continue the game. Now, for the main quest this is obviously the end. But in a content rich environment it should be perfectly OK to have the player easily fail their tasks and yes, have doors close on them. One of the major problems with games lacking challenge these days is that a player failing a quest or questline can end up seriously disadvantaged. So you often see that quests are fairly basic, lacking complexity or challenge. It's easy to get it right. But that shouldn't have to be the case Because one of the greatest enjoyments you can get from a game is succeeding at something difficult. Failing and coming back to retry, and that sweet victory when you finally figure out how to succeed. And I think this philosophy applies to quests as well. In a world which has a high density of content, it doesn't generally matter if players don't succeed at everything they do. Sure, many players may reload (which is why long, multi-stage quests are desired!) But if there is more to do, then it's OK for us to occasionally see a door closed. ESPECIALLY if you're already particularly invested in this. For instance you've joined a faction, and done quite a bit of quests for them already, and then suddenly you fail one tragically. You now cannot proceed with this faction any more. That'll be a serious hit to the player. It'll get your attention. "This **** is for real!" and lend some weight to doing quests. Quest investment will certainly lead players to be more immersed in what they are doing. I think of games like Assassins creed, where if you fail the game actually resets you to the last checkpoint and lets you retry. You get to do EVERYTHING and EVERYTHING right. Which is boring and narratively weak. Her name is Mary Sue, good at everything. I'm not saying I fear this won't happen, but I feel it is worthy of discussion.

Quiet Eyes Security. Sometimes when a powerful political figure or merchant goes to a party, his life is at risk. And while he might want some protection, he also wants to generally get on with business. I mean, it doesn't really do to enter a party with an army in tow, now does it? Quiet Eyes is a small organisation which provides security tailored to the whims of the rich. Want to attend a party and have security? Hire an escort from Quiet Eyes. She'll be a beauty on your arm and a bodyguard no-one expects. Wish to organise a feast but expect bad company? The staff will be as deadly as they are good waiters. Going to the market? Quiet Eyes will have their men and women in the crowd go out before you, you won't even realise they're there. Quiet eyes provides unseen security. Their members are trained in recognising threats, scouting out areas unseen, memorizing escape routes, dealing with intruders... Quietly as to not disturb the party, defensive combat, and basic etiquette. Quiet Eyes generally only works through referrals, as they want to avoid dealing with unsavoury character. The client doesn't get to know their guard until the last moment, and it is (generally) understood that they should not go blabbing the identity of those in their employ. Fees are pretty steep, steep enough that contracts are usually not longer than a day, though longer contracts have happened. The Organisation gets 80% of the fee, 20% goes to the members, specialist or particularly skilled members do get a bigger take. And it is not unheard of that tips are given by the wealthy patrons if they are particularly impressed. Quiet Eyes provides etiquette and combat training opportunities for its members, specialist gear, job opportunities, and protects their identity. The nature of the work also allows members to brush elbows with some of the more powerful men and women, which may benefit them in the long run. Working for Quiet Eyes requires skill, and not everyone will be equipped to join. Generally rogues, wizards, ciphers and monks are considered to be the most suitable employees for Quiet Eyes, although anyone is welcome to try for membership. Quiet Eyes is run by a Dwarf and she only responds to the name Quiet Eyes. Among membership there's a pool going for whomever can find out what her real name is, although it is agreed that it is an apt nickname. Quiet Eyes is soft spoken, speaks accentless Aedyran, and doesn't let much out. She's a hard bargainer and fairly strict. "No" is usually the end of it. All contracts are brokered through herself and anyone taking on a security contract while working for her will find him or herself without work. Through her work she's garnered quite a bit of influence and while she's careful not to waste favours, she is not afraid to throw her proverbial weight around. Players meeting the proper pre-requisites may join the organisation. Players succeeding many assignments may eventually be asked to help expand and lead the organisation elsewhere. Quiet Eyes has great ambition, but it's limited to her business only.

I certainly believe China can do more, and regulation is the key. Right now their business are destroying their environment at a faster rate than any other place on earth. Strip mining, mercury binding, no regulation on dumping chemical waste in their major rivers, no regulation on the **** coming out of their chimneys. And as a result: Desertification, soil toxicity, undrinkable water, smog. they've got a full house of bad **** going on. Their three gorges dam, while a fantastically impressive feat of engineering, truly a marvel, has ended fish-runs, stagnated fierce rivers into seasonably dry rivers, and flooded some of the most fertile land on earth. It's a contributor to desertification. That's the problem of making decisions before you did the research. China, however, has an impressively powerful government (for good or evil) and if any country has the power to enact change, it's China. TENS OF TRILLIONS! This has to do with tipping points. The Ocean can take up, and does take up a large aount of carbon from the atmosphere, this increases the temperature and volume of the water however, and also increases the acidity levels of the water. The ocean can not take up co2 forever though, and once it's saturated, any carbon in the atmosphere will need to find different sinks.

I think the keywords for a what makes an RPG are agency and reactivity. I get to choose what I do, and the world is geared to take my actions into account and respond to them.

If there are differences in opinion over what is evil and good, then you can't use them as effective labels to describe characters. The discussion could end there.

Counterpoint: Inquisitor is an "Action RPG" by any reasonable definition. You can find a long essay where I gush about how wonderful it is as a roleplaying game here. Don't confuse the mechanics the used to deliver the content with the content itself. That's like saying you can't be roleplaying if you're playing D&D with pregens. Planescape: Torment isn't an RPG by this definition. Roleplaying is a state of mind that needs to be cultivated very carefully, it's not some mechanical thing you can pin down and cut and paste into other games. If you roleplay with pregens you can still determine your character's responses, motivations and objectives. Planescape Torment discusses the tabula rasa concept and challenges it, but ultimately you can decide who the protagonist is and how he deals with things. I agree, it's a lot more nuanced than I put it. I haven't played Inquisitor, so I can't comment on it but your point is valid.

The Forbidden Philosophers "You may disagree with what we do, but... there are other schools of thought" The Forbidden Philosophers started out as a group of men seeking wisdom in old Readceras, but after they questioned the theocratic dictatorship there, found themselves persecuted, their libraries burned, and their lands taken from them. Like many other set upon groups, they came to the new world to retry in peace. Many of their thoughts are considered radical by many, and they have taken a careful approach to their new organisation. Recruiting members only by invitation. They're slowly rebuilding their knowledge, although much of it seems lost forever. The Forbidden Philosophers seek out thought. Curious thought, different thought. Old thought, new thought. Forbidden thought. Whether it's enlightenment, fascism, or communism, categorical thinking or relativist thinking. If it's well argued and has a view on life, the Forbidden Philosophers are interested in it. Their goals vary by member, but each believes that to ignore other views is the pinnacle of folly. They are wise men who believe that no wisdom can come from accepting any cultural opinion as absolute truth. A large majority of the Forbidden Philosophers disagree with the age old hereditary rule, which is why the organisation has been forbidden in many nations. But in the Colonies they've found they are not alone. Because they're an illegal organisation, to the public they're known as the "Librarians" an organisation with a Headquarters in Big Big City 2, where, indeed, they maintain a large library of collected philosophical works, mostly open to the public, although few make use of the opportunity. The Building itself is a thing of beauty: A large domed building, with a high ceiling and detailed patterned arches, well lit by high windows of coloured patterned glass. The floor is an inlay of coloured stone. and after 'business' hours, the members gather there to discuss philosophy. Its members always seek to increase their knowledge, and either contract others to find works in ancient ruins, from distant lands, or even support local thinkers, or go out and search for these themselves. Because it is an expensive practice, the Forbidden Philosophers are always on the lookout for patrons, even as they patronize artists themselves. A player may encounter the organisation browsing through its library to find information; hiding in the building till after closing hours and observing their traitorous behaviour for the local ruler; stealing some of their rarer books and selling them to the highest bidder; being asked to find a book or man; or tentatively being asked to join them after hours should you have evidenced some interesting views. Because of their history, the Forbidden Philosophers are careful which works are accessible to the public, and they meticulously copy any work and spread them as far and wide to various secret libraries, should this one be burned down, they'll have back-ups. Without technology like a printing press this is slow work, however, and many works are still uncopied and unique. It doesn't help that literacy is at an all time low. Some members quietly work to encourage the clergy of Ladamo to teach literacy, and others beseech Hocard to find that which has been lost before the move. On occasion a member of the former organisation finds its way to the colonial city, this is met with equal joy and suspicion. Every member who shows up may be an agent working against them, as the ones who betrayed them before were never found. Alternatively they could be a lucky rescuer of knowledge and thought. Some in the organisation believe it's safer to kill those of the old guard who arrived late, others believe that spreading their knowledge as far and wide as possible is the only effective safeguard against destruction.

I'm Dutch, I hope to play the English version.

Sure it's about protection, but if men have codpieces on their armour, to you know, show their manhood, why is it so strange to think women wouldn't want to show off their... womanhood? I mean, not all women would, just like not all men would want codpieces, but they did exist you know. so "why not both" have protection, while also having some feminine influences built in your armour. (again, not all armour, but some)

An action RPG, to my mind, is not actually an RPG, it's a dungeon crawler where you can level up and choose your skills and abilities, there is no playing of roles, little dialogue other than "this is your quest, accept or decline" Where as a real RPG choice in conversation and gameplay have a significant impact on the narrative and your experience. Diablo is NOT an RPG, it's a dungeon crawler JRPGs are not RPGs, there is no role-playing. (You get told who you are and what your motivations are) Edit: for question 2: I like role playing games which challenge my philosophical outlook on things, even if they don't change my mind. I see games as a medium of art, (by which I don't think that all games are art) and I believe that they can challenge your mind and preconceptions about things. When I heard P:E was going to be a more mature game, I was overjoyed.

The Linacs If you're shabby looking and on the streets after midnight, if you're homeless, you know that's asking for trouble. We don't really talk about it. Cat went missing from the orphanage a while back, she was always prone to trouble. The orphan-mother certainly has been having a smug look on her face ever since. And she's wearing a new gold necklace. Occasionally homeless men, women and children have go missing from the streets of BBC1 and 2, well, I say missing, but nobody really misses the homeless do they? Good riddance to bad rubbish, not my problem, maybe they've found a better existence, maybe they've found work in the whorehouses, maybe they went home, maybe they curled up and died. Besides, it's normal that on occasion someone drops of the face of the earth. It's certainly not unusual. The Linacs take some of them. They deliberately keep the numbers they take low, never drawing too much attention to themselves. They pick their targets, stalk them, and take them when no-one is looking. Or, they do business with some of the orphanages of lesser repute. In a harsh world, no-one asks too many questions. The Linacs pick those with certain talents, those who seem resilient or skilled. They mostly take the young, but on occasion someone older gets taken too. And when their victims wake up, they wake up in a camp in the Bael Marsh, where they are brainwashed, indoctrinated and trained. They're given a new name, and made to forget what name they had. By the time they reach adulthood, they are formidable rogues, monks and fighters. On occasion a talented member may be trained differently. Training is rigorous, but not brutal. To boost their numbers even further they're subjected to breeding programs on site. Any girl reaching the age of adulthood is likely to already have several children, although they don't raise their own children. Food is grown on site by the Polinac themselves. They serve loyally their master, whom they have been indoctrinated to worship. Sir Polinac the fair. A well respected Aedyr nobleman, not known for much other than being friendly and a poor but frequent contender in tournaments. Polinac is manoeuvring to set up a kingdom for himself, or his family. His elder son died in a street battle not much is known about, but of his two younger sons, one is a captain for a scout vessel in the pioneer fleet of Hezeng, an excellent position to scout out new and strategic lands, and the other has been bought a commission in the Knights of the Open Road, patrolling the area near the northern border of the Bael Marsh. Sir Polinac, considered an innocent powerless man with an average intellect, has been slowly growing his secret army. When it reaches sufficient size, he might even take the colonial city of Defiance Bay. When he feels ready, his soldiers will slowly trickle into the city, shed their clothes for rags, join the homeless. Every homeless they find will be promised a better life if they join in the struggle. But that time is not now. For now the Linacs are still boosting their numbers. And an occasional missing child has been the norm since BBC1 was founded. No-one is the wiser.

so your example of debate is an anti-warming website. oH and walsingham, I don't intend to ignore you but I'm taking a small break from this argument, it was taking up a lot of my time. I'll get back to you.

What if different foods all gave different and very slight passive bonuses which last for a day. Trail rations give no bonuses varying food give either random or specific passive bonuses protein shake +1% critical chance, spicy food could give +1% cold protection, +3%experience gain etc etc. slight enough not to really matter, but big enough to not be completely worthless. this would tie in nicely with resting mechanics, resting resets the passive bonuses to zero, so it might be worthwhile to continue onwards to not lose a +4%cold resistance in a wintery dungeon. But that would only work if food is suitably expensive and rare. I mean, I don't care about food much (in games, at least) but if it were to be implemented this would be the way I'd think about it.