JFSOCC

SYNERGY I remember that. it could work. Teambuilding

I do, but I would have made crafting a very different animal altogether. I'm ok with the current solution.

First up, you guys are doing a fantastic job keeping your heads cool. I think it's awesome that there has been in-depth discussion on this and that you guys listen to the feedback. I've heard people complain about having too much gold in every game I worked on. Until the end of F:NV when we introduced (entirely optional) GRA unique weapons that cost a fortune. Then people complained that the items cost too much. I would enjoy it if there is some skill to crafting, whether that is player skill or character skill, I don't care. Would you be interested in thinking of alternative ways to use crafting as a skill, or is it too late? Either way, I think the current (altered) solution is very acceptable

Does anyone else think Dreadnought is a better class name than Barbarian?

What I always think about some of the more linear level design thoughts are: Why is it not OK for a player to outsmart the game? Why must a player see that set-piece you've put all attention in? Is it absolutely required for the player to enjoy his experience? Why can't I explore a little more, it's my own damn fault if I fail because of it. I play Roleplaying games to create my own experience, not to have the best solution for problem x.

If there is a benefit to having wealth other than buying things with it, I reckon that would solve a great deal of the problems. Which is why I like the idea of having wealth tie into reputation.

so much negativity. No-one is using their imagination.

It's a difficult thing and many games struggle with it, I'm not sure if I can help, but I'd like to try. It sounds to me like you are looking for more utility. I'd like to use in-game currency for content. IE: You can bribe a guard, pay-off a threat, lobby a politician. Buy an invitation to a large party. Alternative ways to progress in quests. I think it's ok for some items to be more expensive. Alternatively, perhaps wealth can factor into reputation. It becomes a sort of a "You have to be this wealthy to get the attention of the local power players" (my favourite so far, because this means there is some point to hoarding wealth, and combined with other gold sinks a player must choose what to spend their wealth on (if at all) For those who've joined a faction, there may be costs of expanding. Investments for narrative rewards. Perhaps you can scale wealth (especially with multiple currencies, if that idea is still going) Different wealth for different purposes. I liked that you could use NCR or legion money in F:NV as an alternative to bottlecaps. Perhaps the adventure hall offers mercenary companions, although not everyone may like that. Crafting some items may require expensive components, some of which need to be bought. A trick Guild Wars used, which I think may actually have some love with min-maxers, is to make useful tools decently priced, but marginal increases become ever more expensive. the closer you get to perfection the more exponential the price goes up. This way the best gear will always be more expensive than what you sell, without having to change the resale value. So a +1% damage item costs 5 gold, +2 ten gold, +3 sixteen gold, +14% 800 gold, and +15 2500 gold. Decent gear will be available to everyone, but getting all decked out will cost you. And perhaps some vanity items (different wallpaper for your stronghold, a marginally better but awesome looking suit of armour which may elicit some dialogue) Ego stroking the player who uses his wealth this way. Ultimately, I think the main balance issue is that no-one should be able to do everything. You know how in some games a player gets a weapon an ammo he needs right before an encounter? I remember it used to be that we learned to be careful with our resources. 3 shotgunshells and 1 revolver bullet for gordon freeman, meant 2 powerful enemies dead and the crowbar for the rest. If a player is swimming in cash and has no way to spend it, that's no fun either. It becomes a pointless resource. And some risk could be involved too. Yes you can pay 10.000 gold pieces to see the King of Crime at this (not so) reputable bar, but he may not show up, it may be an impostor, he may not like what you have to say. Players could make mistakes. It could be that as the player gets wealthier more demands are being made on him or her. (which a player may or may not indulge) (quest and dialogue triggers based on wealth) Money to enter a competition, clothes to enter a noble dress party, a contribution to the cause, tithes to the church (in return for the title of benefactor, of course) Or quests which blackmail the players for their wealth. There'd be content both for those who hoard their wealth, and those who spend it. Anyway, that's all I can brainstorm up right now.

How does making content mutually exclusive make a game longer, exactly?

I cannot stress enough how much I disagree with this. The logic that P:E should go with a DnD like system is an appeal to tradition. I'm in favour of giving everyone the same amount of information and let them learn a new system. Roleplaying is about character choice, not character ability. If someone wants to have his melee wizard, why the hell not? If someone wants a Rogue who can handle his own in combat, that's fine too. Just make sure that no-one can be good at everything, and let the player make those choices. I have no doubt that with a new ruleset gamebalance will be emergent, and it might go against expectations, but that's what makes it interesting. I prefer an evolution over a rehash.

I don't agree. The crucial difference is that in the standard durability model, the weapons are supposed to be at full durability most of the time. That is their standard default mode, that players expect most of the time. The Sharpened bonus, on the other hand, will be an exception, not the rule. Your weapons usually won't be sharpened. Players won't expect to have their weapons sharp all of the time. making it incredibly grindy if you want to keep your maximum advantage. How is that better?

I'm perfectly OK with making end-game gear something which most merchants cannot afford to buy. Especially with an infinite inventory that's not so much a problem. While it may be more realistic that merchant have all gear available throughout the game, you can also stagger it. "Blockade, our usual wares can only come through once its lifted"

Loss aversion strikes again. In this case there is no difference in -1 or +1, it's still going to be a change of one for the player. Psychology and game mechanics is an interesting mix.

Well Sensuki, I'm thinking about letting my rogue do some crafting. Anyway. This whole thread seems to be the loss aversion parade. I think you'll find it will work fine in the game.

Seriously Double Fine failed? I am so surprised!

Well, my experience with BG was "combat started, pause, queue up commands, unpause, wait half a second, pause. Did something change? no, ok unpause, pause, ah, let's see. oh, so my warrior has weakness... I don't have a cure for that on my mage or cleric, unpause... yeah. I'm thinking I'll pause a lot.

I don't usually like item degradation, so why don't I mind it here? For a few reasons. 1. it only affects items for which it makes sense 2. Items can be repaired indefinitely. 3. This might actually make it worthwhile and interesting to keep something you've crafted and customised early on, your signature weapon. 4. You will never lose an item. 5. An item will only become less useful if you have neglected it for way too long 6. There are alternatives to crafting for keeping your gear in order, but crafting becomes a skill with merit. 7. There's nothing wrong with gold sinks, let's face it, what's the point of loot if you can only collect it?

At first I saw Durability and screamed NOOOOO! but turns out false alarm. Great update, totally dig it. Got a question: Can we "experiment" to find crafting solutions we don't have the recipe for? Or can it only be done with the recipes?

My most loved and hated stat. Loved for its utility, hated for its execution.

I think it will be fairly difficult to keep up with all the possible information outlets during the project. And things are still mutable. It would be a lot of work. And when the game comes out, you'll have a lot more information than you've gathered in all the time prior to add to the Compendium. Not to mention that the information might be released by Obsidian themselves at the time of release. I wish you the best of luck if you want to do this, I think it's cool, but it might be hard and frustrating work.

The problem with dropping some legacy is that there is always going to be someone who loved that particular piece. However, the examples discussed were all things which can be improved upon. Someone who is an expert at DND (2, 3.5) would have had no problem playing IE games, but anyone without that background would have been baffled by some of the things which were or weren't possible. When I first played baldurs gate aged 13, I didn't know anything about DnD, other than "geeks dress up in weird costumes and play it" This time, Obsidian chooses to create a system which sets us all on equal footing, which we all have to learn from scratch, and to be honest, that pleases me greatly. Not only did I take issue with some of the fundamentals of DnD (alignment, for one) but no standalone game should ask you to have pre-requisite knowledge from outside what is given to you by the game. All the things pointed out by Obsidian as in need of improvement, ARE in need of improvement, HAVE led to degenerate gameplay. More often than not this was because they were tied to another Intellectual Property, and had to deal with legacy issues from that ruleset. I am grateful that they're no longer bound by this. And I don't think it's the specific ruleset which made the Infinity Engine games memorable. I think the nostalgia pertained to the narratively rich setting, the reactivity, and the strong dialogue. The artwork and the freedom to play at your own pace should be included in that list as well. I don't think Obsidian is betraying their fundamentals because they're not making a copy of previous games. In fact if I had thought they wanted to make a copy of games past, I wouldn't have backed the project. All things evolve over time, today we know more, got better tools, have more experience, and are free from constraints with publishers. That, IMO is going to be the recipe for a good game. And the thing which will elevate a good game to a great game is passion. Obsidian sold their Kickstarter as "the game they always wanted to make but couldn't" To me that says that this is their passion project. The Project they're willing to sweat over, work late for, tinker with till it's right. The project they can put themselves in. If I'm right, and this is how the developers feel, then I don't even think it can go wrong.

The Quarantiners. These new lands are sick with plague, there is disease everywhere. There isn't really, but that still seems to be what the nobility believes. The Quarantiners have no desire to disabuse them of that notion. Officially they are doctors charged with preventing disease spread throughout the world, in reality they are a ruthless gang of looters. The Quarantiners do know their job, but during their travels they changed, whenever a town, or a section of a city has been found to be "diseased" The Quarantiners have the right to place the location under quarantine, and take whatever measures are needed to cure the disease or at least stop its spread. In reality they scout out locations, see if there is wealth, see how well connected those who own the wealth are, and if it's all clear, they place the location under quarantine. Quarantine law allows to Quarantiners to isolate their victims, to order them to partake in examinations, and to burn the bodies of any infected, or even the terrain if the infection is severe enough. Effectively removing any evidence of their crimes. If your town or ship or house is unlucky enough to be placed under Quarantine law by the Quarantiners, chances are good there is no real disease (or one they spread themselves) they will make off with whatever of value they can find. Their upsurge in wealth, combined with their governmental mandate has made the Quarantiners a powerful political force as well as ruthless. They've been growing bolder as they've grown more powerful, placing entire city blocks under their "protection" or going after "plagued individuals" which oppose them. The Quarantiners have lobbied for and gotten more duties and rights in their pursuit of a "pure and healthy society" giving them wide interpretation to decide what "purity" means. So far, only small rumours exist about the Quarantiners inquisitorial excesses, the cat is bound to get out of the bag. Joining the Quarantiners is possible by appointment. For some reason some members of society have taken to attacking the Quarantiners, these ignorant souls don't realise the good the Quarantiners are doing, of course, so the organisation has been allowed to recruit their own guards. Excepting a few captains, the guard are posted on the OUTSIDE of Quarantine zones, for their protection, of course, and thus are ignorant of the darker going ons of the Quarantiners. The player may encounter the Quarantiners because they wish to help out curing the sick (boy are they in for a surprise) or because they need to get inside a quarantine zone. They may have heard the rumours and are investigating, or perhaps they feel that there might be some loot for themselves.

Seagre the Dominator Seagre is a Wizard who has chosen to study the Mindpowers of a cipher in order to further his own power. Finding a fairly secluded town in which the locals were easily overpowered, he's taken over most of their minds. Those he couldn't control through his mind now serve him out of fear for their loved ones. Each now stands in place until Seagre directs them to fight for him, pleasure him, feed him. Seagre cannot pierce the mind of a conscious person, but anyone who falls unconscious will be restored under his control. Seagre doesn't fight himself, he uses his victims to do that for him, and as such he has access to a diverse array of combatants. Seagre has some limits, which are key to defeating him. 1. He cannot fight with more than two of his dominated victims at the same time. He can only move when he is fighting with one of them. 2. There is an upper limit of minds which Seagre can control, he hasn't reached it yet, but overloading him may be key to defeating him. 3. Anytime one of his dominated victims dies, Seagre will need a small amount of time to access another thrall. 4. Seagre himself is not very strong or well armoured. He attempts to stay out of range/sight, but in melee will quickly fall. 5. At night, Seagre sleeps, He has his strongest thrall guarding his barricaded room, but his other thralls will be active (but not free either) Anyone who is under Seagre's thrall will lose their mind if Seagre dies. Seagre has made no secret of this fact. -- Stranglerfish Strangler fish are eel-like fish which thrive in shoulder-high water. Strangler fish kill their prey by latching on to the limbs of their victims. immobilizing them and drowning them. Whenever they successfully kill a target, they enter a feeding frenzy, ignoring anything but a direct attack until there is no more food left. In this way, they can strip a victim to the bones in ten minutes. Stranglerfish live in schools and attack together. Defeating a stranglerfish school involves killing them one by one before they've got all your limbs locked down, a process which is slowed for each one latched on to the victim. Leaving the water will not remove the Stranglerfish, but it will prevent more from latching on. Stranglerfish generally don't strike a target unless they're fairly certain they can drag it down in less than a minute. A player will likely encounter Stranglerfish anywhere where animals gather to drink, or cross shallow water, on occasion they can be found in tidal pools.

Haleberd. Haleberd is a normal looking +2 Halberd in the hands of any class, except in the hands of a fighter or paladin. When equipped to A fighter: gives a +5 health and stamina boost, when an enemy is struck with Haleberd there's a 20% chance it steals 1 stamina. When equipped to a Paladin: Whenever an enemy is killed restores a small amount of stamina and a tiny amount of health on the wearer, and gives +1 to defence for 1-3 rounds to the Paladin Eemse's slingshot. The bountyhunter Eemse specialised in bringing in her targets alive. Her Slingshot deals only minor damage, but has a chance to stun, each successful stun removes 10% of the target's base stamina, when a successful stun removes the last bit of stamina, the target falls unconscious and cannot recover until a minute after combat has resolved.

Eemse's identifying kit The solitary bountyhunter Eemse carried these tools with her to ensure that her targets were indeed who they appeared to be. Looks like a metal orb, when used on an unconscious target, it has an 80% chance of correctly identifying the target. (100% if the user is a cipher)