Hormalakh

I agree with Hormalakh and I see his point, not something I would like to see either. I'd want to explore the entire area and appreciate the art. I suggested some sort of Clairvoyance (Farsight) ability for Wizards that only work out of doors in another thread. However, I realize now that it could ruin a lot as well as I could simply enter an area and explore it entirely by this ability to see where all the enemies are. It could be a "Remove Fog of War" only (more like an art appreciation ability primarily, e.g., it can't detect enemies) or when you press "M" it could remove the dark Fog of War (but it would still be transparent so you'd still not see the enemies). It could also be a "tactical" ability with a massive cooldown (So you'd have to wait around a long time before you could use it again, you could probably clear one area with enemies and use it once or twice if you'd use it carefully and ideally). See I kind of like this idea. Make it a Level 8 spell scroll that you can only purchase from a few shopkeeps around the whole realm. Make enough of them for many (but not necessarily all) the maps in the game. Make it expensive. Then make it late game. So I can go back and see those dungeons fully. Make it an acheivement to "find all 'Farsight' scrolls" in the game if you want. Just let me see the whole area.

I STILL think thinking about monks as practioners of solely martial arts is the wrong way to approach this. Monks should be focused on their aspects of spirituality, devotion, esotericism. Martial arts was one of many ways that monks could approach this. If we take this approach towards looking at it, I think we can get further in this discussion. Even those Chinese martial artist monks weren't martial artists first and monks second. Not all Chinese/tibetan monks knew martial arts deeply. Jeez just watch a few Chinese martial arts movies. The monks that ran the place weren't always these super amazing fighters who jumped around like monkeys and bent pieces of steel into artwork. They were meditating, peaceful, philosophical people who tried to improve their spirituality before their fighting form. Why do all the monks in this game have to be thought of like our David Carradine look-alike? I would love to play a monk in this game that limits his fighting pursuit, maximizes his pursuit of the soul, and tries to talk his way out of most combat. But, he's wise enough to know that battles DO occur and for him to be unprepared is unwise.

No they shouldn't. I don't want FoW off. I want it on. Opaque as well as transparent. Just don't make me suffer through what I put up on my first post. Look at the images. It'll make more sense.

No, I'm not asking to take out opaque FoW. I want opaque FoW. I just want it to play a part only when it matters. I want to beat the area and after I've done so. I want to sit there and enjoy the beautifully drawn area on my huge monitor, without spots of black that I could just never get rid of. I don't really like any of my ideas much. I just don't know how to fix this problem. I'm hoping others agree with me that this is a problem and come up with more innovative solutions than I have. Here is an example. Notice the huge cone-like top of the entrance there? Well, if you were to explore this map by just walking you would never be able to see that top there regardless of how much you explored every inch of that map. There was just no way to show the whole thing. Of course, I wouldn't want to know the layout of this map before I played through it, but once I've been through this map 50 times, I'd really like to see the whole map and enjoy the fine intricacies of it. I'm coming up with another example too and I'll put it in my first post as an edit.

Oh, I hope this isn't the case. Parts of the P:E world being influenced by mdieval Europe is ok. But to make the entire universe that way is ridiculous, and boring. It's as if Earth was only Europe during the Middle Ages. I am tired of playing European fantasy games whenever I think of Dungeons and Dragons-style RPGs. I don't really like Final Fantasy style asian RPGS either. In both cases, the worlds are just too small and contrived. Just my 2 cents.

I remember when I would play some of the IE games like BG/BG2/Fallout and whenever I would be exploring an area that there would always be two kinds of Fog of War. The black opaque kind, and the transparent kind. Now if I was exploring an area to remove the opaque FoW, there would be places that I couldn't go due to my way being blocked or there really being no reason to go there (because that area was only for aesthetics purposes or it was a huge lake - somthing like that). So that area would remain opaque black and I would never be able to see the entire map. Sometimes it might not have much mattered (if there is an endless ocean that reaches to the edges of the area, but at other times, there would be actual parts of a city or dungeon that might not be involved in the action, but were aesthetically pleasing to look at. I know that there were ways to circumvent around this (explore() function or something like that - A lot of mods were made for this, or the clairvoyance spell but that only worked for outdoors maps and so you are still left with dungeons) but then you saw the entire city/dungeon before you had explored it (making you possibly aware of things you shouldn't have been). A big reason I'm buying this game is because I think that the IE games with the isometric views were aesthetically pleasing to look at. But I absolutely abhorred when I couldn't disperse the FoW from an area just because I couldn't walk there. I also didn't like that the whole city would have been explored when I arrived there for the first time (oh wow, I've never been here before but my area map shows everything!). Please Obsidian, do something about this tragedy. I'm not sure if clairvoyance was supposed to never work with indoors maps, but please let me see the entire map somehow. If you have to implement some sort of "synchronize viewpoint" method like they do in Assassin's Creed where once you reach a certain location you can see the entire map, so be it. Just don't let me lose out on the beautiful artwork of your employees. Possible remedies (I don't really like many of them, but they're just ideas): 1- Allow players the opportunity to buy maps from storekeeps for areas that they wish to explore in the future (probably only cities, never dungeons) so as to give a reason why the outdoors in the cities is transparent. Maybe do something similar in dungeons where you can find a map that has explored the area map for you. 2- Make an indoors "clairvoyance-type" spell but with a smaller area of effect. I believe Warcraft III did something like this called "Farsight." I don't care that I have to cast that spell a hundred times - let me see everything (my OCD demands it!). 3- As previously mentioned some sort of synchronize area/ explore()=1 point in the map that allows me to see it. I really hate this idea. Edit: This is what I'm talking about: This is our beloved screencapture. This area has been set as "indoors" for this example. There will be similarly beautiful images in dungeons that will definitely be set as "indoors" for so-called "stealth" purposes and not knowing the dungeon map will be important. This is possibly the locations that our adventurers can walk. And finally, I'm sad to say but this would be what the map would have looked like if I played vanilla BG2. I know nobody wants that. Especially Hector.

The Fallout 1/2 games (never played 3 or NV) also had interesting companions. Fallout 1 had dogmeat. Fallout 2 had Marcus, Myron, Goris, Skynet, and Lenny. Dogs. Big and little mutants. Deathclaws. A drug-creating chemist. That's some ingenuity right there.

Lol. I'm not. Just trying to give it a PE vibe. Another good movie I saw that did a good job of describing the world in this method was the movie, "Saints and Soldiers."

Well, then I guess we change the mechanic. I'm not a big fan of the cooldown method that starts until after you've used your last spell. The way I see it, at a particular level (e.g. level 3 spells) you lose mana/endurance for level 3 faster or slower depending on whether you used Lightning bolt or fireball, but always gain mana/endurance back at that particular level at a constant rate. It's always refilling your endurance and mana constantly. I'm trying to think of a good way to describe this. I guess if you've ever played Halo it might be easier to understand. When you get shot in halo, you start losing your armor at a set rate, but after a second where your armor doesn't get hit, it will automatically start to recharge. Get hit with a stronger gun, your armor goes down quicker; weaker gun is slower. Once your armor is completely gone, you really are vulnerable and it usually takes a few seconds longer for your armor to start recharging than it otherwise would if the armor was partially full. Gosh, it's really hard to explain. Anyone else want to give it a shot?

No. The way I invisioned it was a little different. Say you're a level 5 mage. You get 3 level 1 spells, 2 level 2 spells, and 1 level 3 spell. In your codex, you have: Level 1: Magic Missile Grease Identify Knock Ghost Armor Bless Level 2: Blind Fear Flame Arrow Acid Arrow Level 3: Fireball Lightning bolt. In between rests, you have to pick out only 3 level 1 spells, 2 level 2 spells, and 1 level 3 spells to reuse. The system otherwise works as before with Mana or endurance or whatever (as you cast a spell it reduces your mana or endurance and it continues to charge when not casting regardless of what spell you cast). If you need to use a level 1,2, or 3 spell that you haven't "memorized" then casting that spell costs more mana/endurance than it would otherwise cost. That way, you actually have to consider what spells you need before you actually need them and it becomes a tactical challenge. If you're in the fire cave and you always have the choice between lightning bolt and fireball, there's no tactical skill involved with choosing lightning bolt over fireball. If however, you knew ahead of time (through proper information gathering for example) that it was a fire cave, well then before you rest at the tavern for the evening and start your journey to the cave, you decide to memorize lightning bolt. You could use fireball for that pack of ice memphits on the way to the cave. But you can get off only 2 fireballs before you're drained. Otherwise you'd have had maybe 4 or 5 lightning bolts before you're drained.

I've been thinking about the above statement and you know what it really reminds me of? One of the best written dramas in the PE universe. That of Walril Blanc. Some called him a magician but he was really just a cook. He was known for creating svef and maintaining a relationship with the most feared and seedy elves in the region, known as Gusvaer Frieyngdir. Anyway, the drama is about Walril, along with his companion Jesgkki, trying his best to provide for his family to the best of his capabilities. He isn't a bad man, and while the story is about selling svef, you can't help bad for him. The drama was a huge success throughout the realms. -------------- If the quality of writing for PE is meant to be at the same quality as that of the drama of Walril, then I'm sure this game will be a smashing success.

See now I'm confused. #insertimageofFryaskingnotsureifspoilersorlies You have some really great ideas though dude. Lying bards huh? *scribbles in little notebook* Well, you see Armand, this bard he's not just a liar. He really has no choice. His family has been captured by the local militia and he's been threatened to find a group of adventurers who are willing to risk life and limb to venture to Thein Bog (its in the PE universe, check out the map, bottom right, in the Thein area) to find and fight the monsters there. The militia is too weak to handle the monsters and have stooped to bullying the local people to find heroes. He really has no choice. The local adventurer's hall is always brimming with dim-witted folks who keep asking about where this "endless Hall of Od Nua" is, and how they really want to get rich by looting every last crevice of that place. Of course, this poor bard (his teeth are grimy and pointy because of his poor diet and lack of dental hygiene - he really is poor) had no choice but to lie to them. Because ... family, right? Family always comes first.... At least that's the story he's telling to a group of adventurers who just barged into the Adventurer's Hall, soaking with swamp water and stinking to high heaven, wanting to cut our poor bard's neck. Of course, when they let him go, you can't be sure if he's grinning or not. The only way to find out is to either take him on his word or to ignore the ramblings of the crazy bard in the adventurer's hall... Edit: Some girl named "Meri" brushes past you and sits by the soaking adventurers. The whole hall bursts into racuous laughter.

Except this is exactly what I hate about most Dnd games today. They're all based on the same Western European idea of knights fighting dragons. It was the main reason why I haven't played Skyrim to this day and really have no motivation to. Killing dragons as a knight (albeit Nordic knight is a little different)? So overplayed. So trope. Why is it that games like Zelda keep it fresh even though they're RPGs? They explore new worlds in each title. Sure you have the same-old demon. But some of the most memorable dungeons for me are those that I played in Skyward Sword. It's very rare you see a technologically advance mesoamericanish vibe to a civilization that controls time. That's unique. It also makes me want to explore that world more. Give me a forest filled with spiders and a huge dungeon with a dragon at the bottom of the cavern, and I'll go back to playing baldur's gate 2.

There are a bunch of posts about lies and falsification and how that can play a role in enriching the PE universe. Who says bards can't lie? Especially bards who really know the truth but like to lie through their grimy pointy teeth at unsuspecting adventurers who pay handsomely for false information? I want a gritty lie-filled song about how Od Nua lies in the center of Thein Bog and its true location will only be shown to those who venture there on the eve of the full moon of the harvest festival (all lies of course).

Hey Armand! Very awesome. I'm thinking that most bards played the songs of their people (pesare Irani!) ;P But honestly, most bards would play songs that were historical narratives. They would play songs of heroes past and kings long since dead. It would be really awesome if we knew more about the lore of the PE and that you would be singing about their lives. For example, it would be great to hear a song about Od Nua and his endless halls (unlike his very ending life). You know, somethign that tells us about the history of Dyrwood or the elves. Od Nua's halls might be nice. There must be rumors afterall of the location of Od Nua's endless halls that high-lored chanters would know about.

I am unfortunately one of the few people who really liked Arcanum's soundtrack.

I wonder if the printing press never developed or if it was developing but outside forces suppressed the invention. I like to think of things that have happened fairly recently in human history with Beta Max and VHS and the whole controversy of mass distributing media. Perhaps the monks in this world (or maybe some other profession) had a lot to lose by giving up their profession. Except in this world, the monks are violent scumbags who have used multiple tactics including force to keep this world from developing these inventions. Those who dare defy them will have their souls shattered and scattered across the world.

Just in case the PcGamer site goes down: I'm thinking Polynesian orcs.

Monks in any country would have to defend themselves from outside attackers. But fighting is not the way of the monk: spirituality is.

If there are special effects, the probabilties of them actually occuring should be extremely low. Like 0.05% per crit miss/hit. Critical hits happen quite often (5%), but the special effects should not happen every time you get a crit. That's just too many status changes.

I don't think you sohuld need to pick up books and put them into a Codex to really gain anything. It should be more like what you read can help you in the game. I mean having maybe 1 optional quest that is related somehow to knowing something that you've read in a book somewhere can be interesting. If your character can't read books, then obviously you wouldn't really be able to play that quest. Thne when you replay the game as a different character, then you could get that quest. Games should be made so that they're never the same the second play around and that there is plenty for you to see again without it getting tired.

Someone want to make a poll for this? I'd really be interested in seeing what people think. I'm no good with this HTML/forum mumbo jumbo.

No Mary sues in this game....

Wow, very powerful. Two things come to mind immediately. 1- Some lies are unwitting. The person doesn't know that he or she is lying. They might be giving you information and you wouldn't really know that they're wrong because they don't know that they're wrong (the unknown unknowns). 2- Some of the best movies (Memento and Inception do a great job) out there are those that never really exactly tell you what is truth and what is falsity. I don't mean that they try to gimmick their way out. There is an objective reality, but the audience (the movie viewer) is given information through the filter of the protagonist. All information is filtered through the lens of the protagonist. At the end of the movie, the audience doesn't exactly know what to believe. But the story has an end and a finality to it - it's not gimmicky. Talk to anyone about that movie and people fall into two different camps - they have two differing answers. One is true objectively, but its hard to tell which is. It leads people to revisit the movie to look for more clues in finding out exactly what is truth and what is false through filters outside of the main protagonist. This would lead to an amazing story that people would love to keep coming back to.

Haha totally! And only those with good enough info-gathering skills could separate the good info from the proverbial chaff.