Hassat Hunter

Werewolf Island was nice. I think some sections where your temporarily locked off from the world are good. However, NOT a 15 leveled dungeon that takes over 30 hours to complete...

Not really, most people want to kill me with fire That's what you get for adding a joke-option in your perfectly super-serious thread...

My points (some repeatal from other threads); * Yay to keychain. * Notes would get scribbled in the journal, and 'used up' in progress. * Books could be stored in the stronghold library. As soon as you stored one copy you can just read it there any time you want to. And not in a "take book to inventory, use" kind of way but just selecting the title from the bookshelf * Don't think there are any other 'common' questitems? I think the rest (bar any common missed, do mention) should just act like regular inventory items. And yes, if that leaves some items use ambigious, the better...

The moderators allow a pretty laid-back discussion. We're mostly adults here, we generally can get heated but not go overboard. I don't think tight reigns are needed, as it only quells good discussion. So yeah, I think the mods do a fine job keeping what does go over the line away, while not being harsh on things that are just heated discussions which are good to have for OE and ourselves. (maybe being an ex-mod I am biased though xD)

:Not Sure If Serious: This isn't Diablo, no gear damage or repair will be in. Thank god... Although non-magical items could break in the BG's (no repair), so bring/loot/find a spare. Magical's fine .

Indeed it was. Aren't complaining... but since this *is* a thread about 'what can be done better next time'...

Pretty sure only the moderators can do that...

Not much a fan of DLC, but since this is a full-on expansion (and I already bought it)... I do agree post-game seems to make the most sense. And probably feel most refreshing, which is what I think an x-pack should do...

Well, if you notched the pathnodes up way high (not a problem with a more modern PC) I thought it was alright enough.

Also let there be dogs, rats, squirrels, deer and other foliage in outdoor areas that is friendly and doesn't need to be killed...

It doesn't matter what the druid gives, although if it does for you, exactly the same. It matters what the wolves and other spawn give. If they give XP it makes a difference wheter you fight all or half. And I think using your skills proper to turn the tide of battle being punished is a bad system. Not talking no, understand and turning yes. I believe that was the skills function in IWD2. If I confused it with another skill, my mistake, hereby. I don't recall *not* fighting through intimidation or persuasion ever giving XP. Not in BG, not in PS:T, not in KOTOR. I suppose it could, though I personally would be fonder of letting the result of the check (in this case less peeps to fight) be enough of a reward. Not every little thing the player does needs to be instantly awarded. Picking a lock? Loot it's own reward. Trap? You're not triggering it. I fail to see why you need a XP-bonus on top of that. Especially keeping in mind the leveling system of PE and the sheer size of the game. It doesn't indeed. However, as mentioned, I have never seen combat-evasive persuasion or intimidation giving XP, and in the rare cases it did, usually far less than using the violent alternative. While giving a lot of quest XP like Baldur's Gate II did for finishing quests is somewhat "objective based" taking XP completely away from monsters is a sure-fire way to make absolutely certain to all your gamers what your game's about. It's story, it's lore, it's quest, it's exploration. It's no monster-basher. Considering OE's obvious strength and weaknesses making the story stand out more than ever makes the most sense in giving PE it's unique identity, and moving forward past IE's games. I am pretty sure the only reason IE games kept to combat XP anyway was due to publishers being afraid of something different. Something without emphasis on killing. And a RPG where the main focus wasn't killing, could you see it? Heck, most publishers are pro-murdering everything still. It were the smaller developers who went away from kill-based to story based. The result? Deus Ex and Vampire: Bloodlines, some of the best RPG's EVER. Does it has some correlation with that it doesn't promote murdering everything as the best way to proceed. Focusses on it's story? You may disagree, but I think it does. And making a PS:T game that will become even more legendary story and gameplay wise. I won't give up on trying to make that a reality... with all the knowledge and changing perspective on gaming gained since 1999 it's so close in reach. Hmmm... the scripts I have used changing XP on death is too late (since the value is already substracted and given to the player). If however this would allow to prevent instantly to drop XP and not give it to the PC I suppose it could work. However it's a script to change one variable why I think combat XP is worse than objective-based XP. If you want to script modify the other stuff (like balancing dungeons based on XP, and not foes, so you don't have to account foes in your XP calculations, nor need to adjust the monster grid if monster balance and XP value is modified). Keeping a tight reign on XP is good if the alternative is the horrible invention known as level scaling... If the if gets called again and again and again and again as a area-wide "onevent" thing without one-shot check, then yes, it could.

Maybe. I read it as you could use various skills to succeed and then if you still fight the XP is higher. Maybe "loot" distracted me, as you can't really have loot if you don't have a fight. It would be pretty hard to do this without MMO- quest arrow/markers. How do you know exactly *where* on the map the next objective is. Also archers and mages don't let you go that easy. And how to avoid a chokepoint filled with suicide kobolds? I do see it happening in TOR. But then again, there is not much point in MMO's fighting enemies with their respawns and annoying the hell out of you being back 20 sec later. You wont have that problem in a single-player RPG. I would be uncompelled to kill something that's just popping back 30 seconds later (damn TOR ) too, however, unless OE loses their collective minds I don't expect that fear to be reasonable for PE, and encounters are logically placed, one-shot and not annoying or pointless as grindy ARPG/MMORPG encounters. Some more examples I thought up while away; * A druid is attacking you. He summons a group of wolves and other animals to attack you. If you have a ranger in your party or your wilderness lore is high it allows you to charm (not with spell, in convo) half his animals to turn against him... Now in a XP-per-kill situation this would harm you considerably, since there are fewer enemies to fight. In a objective-XP based game however the druid will give 100XP regardless and his companions nothing. Result; actually having the lore or ranger (which certainly NOT all parties will have) is an actual gain, not a burden. Another; * A group of thugs ambush you. You need to dispatch them. Having good intimidation allows you to scare of a few, leaving fewer remaining to fight. Again, with XP-per-kill that's not making it better for yourself as reward. With objective it doesn't matter if you use intimidation or not, same experience. However actually using your skill doesn't negatively affect your XP-reward. Small story short; It wouldn't punish you for strategies Sun Tzu would be proud of. Being a good strategist doesn't punish you, but awards you. And I think that would be a big step up in making RPG combat not as stale as previous generation IE-games have got it to be, and continuing on with it will not resolve. Bad combat will be bad, no matter how much XP you give for it...

^ (not above but the one on top that. Damn thread moving fast) Yup. It doesn't make sense to WANT to fight everyone in the game, and ending pretty much everything in a fight you can, then complain fighting would be punishment... I would be "What... that doesn't even... wtf?" Also, it's not really my definition of 'punishment', it was you guys who stated you get punished from failing and getting into "reward-less combat" Another good example; In KOTOR2 there is a dungeon where you fight visions. Defeating the visions doesn't give XP. At the end you gain a bunch, variable if you succeed the quest or not. So far pretty much everyone unanimously agrees it's the best part of the game, no one said "fighting the visions is pointless since I get no XP"...

The only bad things; 1) Too much addons and confusion surrounding it. How many people (including myself) didn't get confused by the myriad of tiers, addons, additions etc. 2) Adam should have tried IWD2 before playing (the 30 minute trying to make it work properly) That's about it. Only good stuff for the rest...

Well, they did mention the towers on the dungeon where just an artist going wild with the design and it wasn't the intention (yet?) So yeah, current art doesn't need to reflect end result...

Well, best post pro-combat XP around, I give you that. Bloodlines gives bonus XP if you stealth through. I still killed everyone. Yeah, I realise you state no one would do that. Yeah, you could stealth. But it wasn't easier, nor more fun, so I decided just not to do it. Be damned you get bonus XP for that... TOR I ran away often from XP-giving foes (I am crazy remember). Because I don't particularly fancy respawning infinite foes. Sure, they give XP, but it kind of defeats exploring for me if everything just respawns and I have to slog back again. Also tried the tested method of "no XP, everyone will run to the objective" in the Jekk Jekk Tar section of KOTOR2... ... ... ... I died.

You would only state such things if you didn't know Obsidian... True. However, as stated, part of the main quest. I don't think it would be so fun for a single-side quest to deviate you as much as that from the general play area. It worked in BG2 since you didn't really have sidequests from Athklatla (always mistyping that) left, you all finished them before going to spellhold. However here, the entire rest of the game is still out there to be played upon... Agreed, agreed. I don't doubt OE that much. Still, I would think 15 levels *in a row* is too much, even with OE's quest-crafting skills and solutions. And it kinda seems most people here want a diablo-esque battleslog, instead of having it be like the rest of the game, well-balanced between conversation, combat, exploration etc. Which makes me sad...

Sad is... it's mostly "true story"

I prefer that too. Biggest issue would be, if you made a full custom team, they wont have that ability...

So, the XP for combat discussion in another thread made me realise... a lot of people think rewards in the form of XP make the difference between "awesome strategic combat" and "a waste of time" It really opened my eyes to how badly most developers have been treating dialogue in their RPG's. Remember those HUGE conversations in Planescape: Torment? Which had no point but to tell you the lore, keeping you entertained. And didn't reward you at all for reading it. Clearly it's only been this way since no-one opened their eyes to how much of your precious time this would waste. It's time to make Project: Eternity the RPG of the future by revolutionising dialogue. I know Mass Effect did it great with codex XP, but we have to go further than BioWare. Revolutionize the RPG. Every time a conversation option offers just lore, easter egg dialogue, random stuff inhabitants say, attempts to seduce your female NPC's, make stupid comments about your options in the past to reflect the word knows you exist etc. you get experience. This to compensate you for the fact that doing this clearly wastes your time and you could do something else instead. Like getting XP someway. This way conversation finally leaves the waste of time area and enter the awesome strategic dialogue era. After all, you aren't doing this for fun. All those extra NPC's taking up your time you could spend getting quests or talking to people who *need* killing. And since there's some kind of stupid rule that we can't just keep those NPC's due to some 'deserted city syndrome' or some equally lame explenation, this obviously is the only way to go. Viva la Dialogue Revolution!!!

Extremely wrong example. The boss by itself would be an objective (hence XP), and thus your "example" of why the system sucks excludes using the system. A better example would be instead of a boss it was 20 gnolls. Why is taking the straight-road and killing them much better than spending time getting around them and quietly steal the objective? Answer; It shouldn't be. Using the system they plan for PE it wont either. Doesn't mean killing the 20 gnolls is useless, you still get to the objective after all after doing it. I seriously doubt running to the objective and away is going to be an issue. And heck if it is, it's ON a gnoll. Stealth players could pickpocket, however a non-rogue party? You have to kill them to acquire the item... You should be rewarded for being an idiot and drawn into a fight? Tell me more about how it makes sense to get rewarded for seeking trouble where there is none. Cause exploring is all about killing stuff. There wont be no NPCs along the way. There wont be items to find. There wont be quests to complete. Nope, exploration is only... MURDER DEATH KILL. This isn't Diablo. This is Project Eternity. Spritial sequal to Baldur's Gate and Planescape:Torment. If you can let people walk waypoints and complete quests, as some MMO's allow, you seriously need to judge your way of making a proper game... As well as if you can't create areas that are nothing but killfodder. They already said there's a hardcap. Even if you kill 1 billion dragons, you will not reach level [max+1]. And the max is rather low... A FEW LEVELS? Seriously. In a 12 (give or take) level system XP system they need to gain "a few levels"... Maybe this is the root of all problems. People don't seem to realise there aren't that much levels, and that this game is about the size of Baldur's Gate II by the looks of it. There aren't 100 levels to gain! If enemies give XP they either need to give ridicilous low, or XP per level needs to be amazing high not to make combat XP max you out by the time you reach, say, 30% of the game. And if the solution is combat XP and "just allowing about 30 extra levels" I am personally going to slap you... Because all the combat in the game can be avoided. Because all the combat in the game is pointless. Seriously, people, if encounters which CAN be avoided aren't avoided aren't "punished"... I have no hope. Of course it should be better to avoid combat and conflict WHERE POSSIBLE. That doesn't mean the entire dungeon can be passed through at a leisure with skill speech checks. So, yes, going into avoidable combat fight is punishment. This however doesn't constiture "all combat". Result; Statement is false. You have to fight because, well, the game is meant that way. There's no avoiding it here and you lose some of your actual, real life time without any in game benefit because of it. Cause well, heck, why are you even playing this game if it doesn't give you GOOD JOB, KITTY , HAVE AN ACHIEVEMENT, DAVE or YOU ARE AWESOME FOR KILLING PIXELS, HAVE XP! I mean it can't be part of the game, right? It can't actually be fun to play on itself without reward on the end, can it? I can't well have a conversation with a NPC without getting XP afterwards, right. I mean, I am wasting time here I could spend on REAL stuff chatting. I should be rewarded. You mean you aren't? What a stupid game. TALKING IS A PUNISMENT. Would the scene at the Jedi Enclave in KOTOR2 be better if you got XP at the end? Because as you guys state it, the entire scene was a waste of time. Less talking, more killing. Is there anyone in this thread who honestly believes every time you chat with a NPC you need to get XP to make it worthwhile. Anyone? Talking shouldn't be a punishment, it should be fun, and the only way to ensure that it stays that way is to include rewards for talking with NPC's who have no connection with anything at all (most notably xp) Oddly enough not a SINGLE RPG I have ever seen uses above system though. And oddly enough, I have never seen anyone complain they desperately needed to get XP everytime they chat up a NPC because "it's wasting their time". Why, if talking and combat is part of the game, is one good enough to not have a constent ego-stroking, but the other does. It both takes your "precious time"... heck, a NPC probably takes more than any combat. So, until anyone comes up and tells me why this makes combat a waste of time ("Gaming is a waste of time! Then why the heck are you gaming. Do something you apparently like instead") while the conversations which take more time of the gamer aren't rewarded and crucified as waste of time or something you quickly go through, I have no intention of believing XP per foe is the better system. PS. If you really do skip all conversations and that's your argument, this game is NOT for you, just saying. PS2. Sorry for all the capslock, but I just get frustrated why combat is apparently a waste of time if not rewarded and anything else in the game isn't apparently as boring as to need rewards constantly. If combat is so hated, why play RPG's in the first place. Go to adventure games instead. Yay, no more waste of time... it will make you happier.

I'd say 4 rings. Justification? I have none... It just sounds about the right amount to me. Of course there should be no 4 overpowered Rings of Kangaxx in the game then though...

Yeah. Let's keep it like Dragon Age, where there aren't nudemods and stuff... Oh, wait. Sarcasm aside; CATS!

Based on designs given, including comparrisons to IWD(2?) dungeons, levels and other data on BIS/OE dungeons, yeah, 7 sounds about right. Sure it can. But I rather they save that for another game, not as a side-quest of this game. I really don't want 30 hour sidequests... without having even a chance of break doing it! Assuming the mega dungeon lasts that short, which is extremely unlikely. As mentioned, it was just another city besides Athkatla, so the comparrison isn't entirely valid. Secondly, it was the main quest, not an optional sidequest, with all the plotforwarding that would hold. The dungeon? No plot forwarding. Third, YES, it did already drag on. So making it twice as long just for the heck of it? Well, I would have dropped the game. I actually already did several times during this section, only to return 3 months later. So, yeah, no, don't want to. As much faith as I have in Obsidian, I don't have faith that they can pull of a 30+ hour dungeon raid being as high-class in RPG'ing as they are famous for. As much fun was having, say, the reversed time puzzle in IWD (was it 1 or 2?) I don't think stretching it out 10 times as long would have been good, no. Just to clarify, I am NOT against a hard-core dungeon where you need to survive and make it through without getting merchants etc. Just DON'T do it with the 15-level mega dungeon which will be a large part of the side-content and made due to us for ALL of us, not just 2% of the Kickstarter backers.

Spam the same spells the entire game or have a big variety to choose from to cast. What would I prefer... Difficult question. Not. Of course IE's old system. I suppose an infinite magic missile mage would be fun for some time, but the entire game. Rather not. And no "your magic missile turns better. Because you upgrade it it gains +1 damage. Super!" isn't making up for it. It sounds here like people use mages to spend everything they got in a single fight, and then need to rest and be useless. For me, not so much. All my mages got powerfull slings, and generally they did the most damage with them. Not using spells untill things got really hazy. This didn't require too much resting at all...