Boeroer

Why Turning Wheel? It does nothing for your summons. You already get +10 INT via Duality of Mortal Presence...?

But... I want them to remove the recursive procs - that's the whole point of the latest discussion.

Not exactly, but partially true. I don't use them a lot because the gain from one debuffing spell in an encounter is a lot higher than the gain from one damaging spell. Mainly because spell uses are so limited then. Later - with a lot more spell uses the situation can shift and I may find myself using high level debuffs but low level damaging spells. You also don't seem to use empower. Because if there's a class that makes the most out of empower it's the wizard. As for Barb's broken combos: try Wahaī Pōraga + Heart of Fury, Lord Darryn's Voulge + that electro-helmet with Berserker's Frenzy. Also try Body Blows + Brute Force. Try Beckoner/Berserker who kills his own puny minions in order to trigger Blood Thirst. Or just use Berserker-HoF on you party's Beckoner-summons just to increase the number of hits that get generated - adding a ton of carnage-damage even if there's only one single enemy.

They can be abused. Didn't I mention before that yesterday I did a one-shot of a whole bunch of Rotghasts with Spirit Lance + Stunning Surge (with Swift Flurry + Heartbeat Drumming)? Or was it in another thread? I will not present you a video - you will have to trust me or try it out yourself... The lowering of Swift Flurry's percentage and the reduction of cleave targets hurts normal players but doesn't prevent abuse of recursive procs. It's a cheap but ugly method. Only the removal of recursive procs can prevent recursive procs without making the abilities crap for the normal player. It's actually quite simple and should be a position that anyone could agree to.

Depends. After a certain point the AoE increase via INT gets absurd. But anyway: I played a maxed CON barb in an "Ultimate" attempt and only died due to a stupid bug I didn't know before. I got to lvl 16 without too much hassle and most fights (except very early game) I didn't even have to pull and kite - because my self heals (that add a lot of endurance to my already huge endurance pool) and especially my health pool was so big I could outlast almost anything even though I had terrible deflection. CON is also great because it raises fortitude - the most important defense in my opinion. Because if you get killed it's a fortitude based afflictons most of times...

True. Especially when compared with the passives that give you additional duration and +10 ACC for will based spells - and the passive that gives you back +5 focus per crit roll on spells. I find them to be powerful enough - at least when playing a solo cipher. Multiclass doesn't help much with the mind control, so...

Chillfog alone can turn hefty encounters into easy ones. Just one example. It's not about the damage, it's about applying Blind (a tier-3-affliction) at lvl 1. Pull of Eora is one of the best CC spells in the game in my opinion. Ninagauth's Shadowflame... There are some spells in the Wizard's portfolio that make a huge difference in a fight. Actually I almost use no damage-only spells with my wizards in the early to mid game in Deadfire. And of course good buffs and debuffs can make a class the strongest. Priest wasn't the strongest class in PoE because he was good at dealing damage (which he also was) but because of his insanely powerful buffs. While I don't consider Wizard to be strongest atm - for me personally - I can understand why people think so. Also the last two spell tiers can lead you to that conclusion.

So - you are saying that 20-30% for 30 sec is balanced with 25% for 60 sec? 30 sec with 50% lash (3 sec. summoning time) vs. 60sec with 25% was acceptable for me. Not perfectly balanced but ok - also when I now look at how I can improve Firebrand further with an ability and an item.

Not if it doesn't have a shock keyword. For example basically every druid elemental spell only have the keyword "elements" so none of the druids fire spells work with the fire axe or the fire ring etc etc. If you want to boost spell dmg with specific gear u need to be a wizard or a priest Are you sure that is still the case? Because Scion of Flame (+1 PEN) and also the Ring of Focused Flames (+10 ACC) work with the Druid's fire spells (e.g. Firebrand).

Exactly. Stop the recursive nonsense and raise the chances again/ allow more cleave targets. This would be better for the normal player while it's not that abusable. The bug of the weaopon was already acknowledged and reported. No need to discuss it further, right?

That would make PEN even more impactful. It already is on PotD. Multiplicative graze/crit: no problem for me. If it becomes too severe you can always tweak the numbers a bit.

As I mentioned before: Firebrand and Spiritual weapons are not balanced to the point: Firebrand lasts twice as long (60 secs). Afaik Spiritual Weapons last only half as long. Scion of Flame and the Ring are not part of the weapon, so I'll leave it aside when comparing those two. But even without I think a weapon that last twice as long and has the same lash (on average) as another one that has only half the duration is better. For me half duration but double the lash was acceptable.

Thank you for the bug report. Yes - I agree on Cobra Strike. It's not really an elemental attack. I just tested it because I thought "Poison? Maybe...?". I also think that Magran's Favor should do slash/burn and also profit from Scion of Flame. Just because the weapon seems to be so full of fire - it has a fiery core and whatnot, right?

Yeah well - that didn't really get implemented so far. Ooor the well-informed players of Something Awful and Twitter do see things fundamentally different than we do...?

I tested Swift Flurry + Heartbeat Drumming with Spirit Lance yesterday and it still procs endlessly. Might be only Heartbeat Drumming though. But seriously: if they fix it on Swift Flurry but leave Heartbeat Drumming untouched then I really have to question their intellect. Affliction maybe? Confused seems to fit... It should be easy to tag an attack with a certain label, let's say "bonus attack" in this case if it's from Swift Flurry, Heartbeat Drumming or Cleave. And once a method/function checks if a bonus attack may proc it can see if it's tagged with "bonus attack" already and can cancel. Other labels like let's say "afflction attached" may pass and lead to a proc. I do such things all the time with decorators - but I'm pretty sure that's not the way to go in a video game because of performance issues. But I guess there's a decent way to do it that doesn't drop the performance. Like - implementing a certain set of interfaces or whatever "not so flexible but fast" solution there is.

The "problem" with nerfing the possiblilty of recursive procs happing (lowering chances of first proc and removing it from ranged weapons which have more AoE uniques) is that it nerfs the ability for the normal player who doesn't abuse it and doesn't build around it so that it becomes unattractive - while the powergamer/munchkin still abuses it. Because it doesn't matter how nerfed it is for the usual player as long as you can make it happen. It's not a very solid balancing approach to lower Swift Flurry from 50% to 33% and just hope that the issue is fixed then... (while introducing another ability that adds a 25% chance). It's a quick and dirty at best.

Yes, that is one big problem and the most important problem here. Another one (that is not so important here and is getting obscured by the bugged weapon) is that attacks (let's call is a cleave) that are done by Cleaving Stance/Mob Stance and kill enemies trigger another cleave and so on. Now with the reduction to only one additional Full Attack per cleave it isn't that obvious anymore, but it's still a problem. Not such a big one as Swift Flurry + Heartbeat Drumming + Wahai Poraga/Citzal's Spirit Lance though (which still one-shots mobs).

WotEP has an enchantment "Offensive Parry" that lets you Riposte on 100% of misses (stacks with Riposte - meaning that you can witness two Ripostes being executed on a miss) - is also adds +5 deflection. As a Trickster you can blind enemies (which results in less ACC). Of course you cannot achieve the deflection of a shieldbearer but it's still possible to get missed a lot in melee. However, the Offensive Parry has its own damage and effects - it does not do a cone-AoE-riposte or something but is only single target. But it causes Dazed which is not bad.

Yeah, but then this last person seems to be a bit sloppy - if he/she thinks that a Firebrand Great Sword with +25% burning lash and 60 sec duration is balanced with a Faith Attuned Great Sword with 20% and 30 secs duration. I will cut her/him some slack when it comes to Scion of Flame and the Ring of Focused Flame - which both push Firebrand further away from the spiritual weapons. Because this can be overlooked by somebody who doesn't play the game a lot and/or theorycrafts build all the times in their head. But the balance mismatch of the plain weapons is obvious now. How can you "balance" this in such a bad way? It's like having a scale with 1 pound on the one side and 2 pounds on the other and in order to balance it you put 1 pound onto the weaker side and take away 0.5 pounts on the stronger...

It seems to be a bug of Wahai Proraga that somehow doesn't stop attacking when too many enemies are near. At some point it gets confused with its "only attack 2 additional targets" mechanic. Good bug find!

This one is fairly ok, but some minor changes from 1.1 are not yet covered and the class-specific upgrades are not displayed properly: https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Category:Pillars_of_Eternity_II:_Deadfire_soulbound_items Best woud be to use the console to spawn them all into your inventory with [giveitem], bind them and then use the [levelSoulBound] command to bring them all up to end tier. Since there are not that many (yet) it's not that much work and you'll get the exact data. In my current playthrough I have them all (besides the Cudgel because I have 3 RES ) and all in all I find them to be nice.

@last question: no idea. It seems to work the same. I don't understand why they nerfed the spiritual weapons while they buffed Firebrand. The faith attuned weapons only have half the duration and don't work with elemental talents - which makes them STRICTLY worse than Firebrand now. I guess it's not the same person(s) who nerf and buff around? What a mess! ANd seriously: who determined that Spirutual Weapons need a nerf in the first place? I saw no build so far that used them on a regular basis.

The Palm shield is awesome with anything that multiclasses with monk. It scales with Transcendent Suffering, it gives you deflection and relflex with Weapon & Shield Style, it gives you dual wielding speed and more speed via Two Weapon Style and gives you additional wounds once you get damaged. Lantern go home! It also helps to trigger Riposte more often since the deflection with a shield is so much higher than without (or a dagger). And since it scales with Transcendent's Suffering the damage becomes respectable (for a shield bash). It's hard to hit you when you stack its deflection with Wizard's Double and deflection rings + cape for example and have some serious RES. Using it on a Minor Blights-based Wizard/Monk with Stunning Surge. It's awesome.

I guess they didn't change the "procs off itself" problem at all. They just made sure that it's less likely to happen (=reducing chances with Swift Flurry and only let cleaving stance attack one additional target only). But if you use AoE melee weapon attacks + enough enemies (hello Pull of Eora + Binding Web) it still will happen. Just did it wirth Xoti + Wahai Poraga and several Rotghasts: one-shot. So it seems the recursive problem is hard to fix...?

Yeah it's cool. I guess they will nerf Whispers of the Wind so it doesn't work with ranged/reload weapons anymore. After that try Whispers of the Wind with Wahaī Pōraga.