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Found 6 results

  1. I find power level to be extremely confusing. (Frankly, before doing in-game research and learning more about how it worked I thought it was a systems blunder by Obsidian due to how obtuse and confusing it is.) I'm posting this share my research but also gather comments on power level, because I can't find an updated recent thread that isn't locked to talk about it. I only have incomplete information from staring at combat logs and a limited set of spells/abilities, so others feel free to chime in. Power level scaling: affects all active abilities (including consumables). Weapon-based martial abilities get minimal and special power-level scaling (including special treatment by Empower, see end of post). Because weapon-based martial abilities are so special, this post will mostly focus on scaling done to other abilities. Note: this wasn't clear to me before, but adding this here -> all damage/duration bonuses you get from power level scaling are multiplicative with any other modifiers: they are applied first, and then all other modifiers are applied. What it does: for every power level you have that is greater than the native[1] power level of the spell, you get scaling bonuses. There are general rules about how spells should scale that I've found, though there appear to be exceptions. But what you see here should suffice for the vast majority of cases. [1] some classes get spells from other classes' skill trees. For example, if you have Xoti train as a priest or priest/monk, at PL3 she gets a bonus spell: "Vile Thorns." Vile Thorns is natively from the druid skill tree, and so it is treated as PL1 in terms of power level scaling. So that means at PL3 you get access to Vile Thorns and it already has some bonus damage, even though you don't have a power level higher than the power level Vile Thorns is on, because natively it is a PL1 spell, not a PL3 spell. General guidelines: First of all, tool-tip accuracy is inaccurate and inconsistent. The one you see when you right-click on an ability ignores ability and power level scaling. The one you see when you hover over the ability in your HUD ignores power level scaling, but counts ability level scaling. Anyway, regardless of power level, there is a scaling ability level accuracy bonus, which is equal to 2 * (power_level - 1) of the spell. So a PL3 spell will inherently have a +4 ability level accuracy bonus, whereas a PL1 spell will have none. There is also a scaling ability level penetration bonus, which is equal to +.5 per ability level. Second of all, the general way scaling appears to happen is, first, take the difference between your current power level and the spell's native power level. For simplicity's sake, let's just call this the "PL". (So casting a PL1 spell at PL4 you would have a PL of 3 for scaling purposes.) A. if a spell bounces or has projectiles, it gets an additional bounce or projectile every other PL. Spells used to have variable projectile scaling but it looks like that got nerfed at some point and they appear to get .5 projectile per PL. B. if a spell does damage/healing, it gets +5% per PL. Non-bounce, non-projectile damage/heals used to get up to 10%, but looks like that was nerfed at some point. C. if the spell has duration effects, it gets a longer duration of +5% per PL. D. if the spell has penetration, it gets an additional +.25 penetration per PL (rounds up to the nearest tenth). E1. if the spell has an accuracy roll, it gets +1 accuracy per PL. E2. if the spell primarily only has that accuracy roll (no damage/healing, no duration effect), it instead gets a +2 accuracy per PL. I'm not actually sure how many of these types of spells exist, but I noticed this while playing with Repulsing Seal (which only does a prone). Slicken is another example of a prone-only thing (though it also has a hazard duration, a hazard duration must not prevent a spell from getting +2 accuracy per PL). Empowering a spell gets you +5 PL to that spell when you cast it. Because some spells have multiple components to it that may touch on A, B, C, D, E some spells disproportionately benefit from power level scaling than others. Anecdotally, empowering a Minoletta's Concussive Missiles can be extremely powerful, because it is almost getting a boost in everything: damage, projectiles, accuracy, penetration. On the other hand, empowering a different PL4 spell like Form of the Delemgan will certainly give me a longer-lasting buff, but is not going to single-handedly swing a fight like empowering concussive missiles. Martial abilities: Non-weapon based seem to roughly follow the spell rules, but weapon-based (primary attack or full attack) abilities follow a special set of scaling, being only affected by B and secretly get an adjustment to their damage in A, but applied as a direct adjustment to the base damage roll, making it effectively a secret multiplicative damage boost. Because it is secretly applied, it's kind of hard to suss out what the bonus is, but my best guess from lots of force-attacking Eder is +5% to your roll per PL. Interestingly, doing an Empower-ed weapon ability manually adds a special damage, accuracy, and penetration bonus: +25% damage (additively combined with any inherent PL scaling), +10 accuracy and +2.5 penetration. I call this a special bonus because in the combat log, this accuracy/penetration bonus isn't attributed to power level scaling at all, it's attributed to the ability itself. And like normal power-level scaling, the Empowered damage bonus isn't actually listed on the tooltips at all, it is secretly added into the "roll" used for damage numbers. But it's there and works on weapon-based martial abilities that don't look like they have much power scaling whatsoever (i.e. Knock Down or Force of Anguish). Note that the way the base damage works means that the damage bonus is effectively a multiplicative bonus, making it more impactful than any other damage bonus in the game. Scrolls: function exactly like spells with one critical difference: instead of using your power level, it substitutes half your Arcana skill for it. Regardless of the spell on the scroll, the spell is treated as PL0. If you have a bonus to your power level (from items, potions, or whatnot), those also boost scroll power 1:1. Might, intellect, and perception have no effect on scrolls. (Note: I suspect it uses half your Arcana skill because scroll strength is already tied to arcana based on the minimum required to use one, so Obsidian didn't want you to get further insane scaling from a scroll of maelstrom, for example.) Potions/drugs: are influenced by your Alchemy skill. Like scrolls, if you have any bonus to your power level (from items, potions, or whatnot), those also boost potion/drug power level. Nalpazca monks effectively have +10 PL for drugs, which generally means +50% duration with drugs. Pre-1.2, all potions/drugs got their effect boosted by your alchemy skill, but this scaling has been removed with 1.2. (So no more broken uses of Potion of Impediment.) Might, intellect, and perception have no effect on potions. Explosives: are influenced by your Explosives skill. Bombs used to have a hidden native power level, but as of 1.2 they all have PL0 and have been rebalanced so that they scale appropriately from there. Like with other consumables, if you have any bonus to your power level (from items, potions, etc.) they also boost your explosives skill 1:1. Might, intellect, and perception have no effect on explosives. Reverse pickpocketing: from stealth, you can reverse pickpocket an explosive (can't be in your quick item slot). It gets a special version of "empower" when it detonates, which grants it +100 accuracy (all but guaranteeing a crit), and +100% to the base damage (multiplicative with other damage bonuses).' Traps: are weird~! They do their own thing when it comes to PL scaling. First, each point of Mechanics gives a +3 accuracy bonus to traps when they trigger. However, for each of your character levels, it gets a bonus PL, except this PL scaling does not affect damage, they only affect penetration, accuracy, and duration (this may be related to an issue where spells that create "hazard" effects do not do correct damage that scales with stats/abilities). Interestingly, trap duration is not affected by intellect, but trap accuracy is affected by perception. So a level 12 character with 10 mechanics would get a +30 accuracy bonus from mechanics, then another +12 accuracy from PL scaling (listed as an "ability level" bonus in the combat log). Then, if it's a trap with a duration, it gets +60% to duration, and if it's a trap with a penetration value, it gets +3.25 (rounds to 3.3 in display). Anyhoo, this effectively means that for people who keep using traps late game, they will primarily be useful for their debuffs (sorry, caltrops trap). Monastic Unarmed Training: is also weird! I did my research in a separate thread dedicated to fists. Additions welcome! I'll edit this post and add in corrections or extra details.
  2. Hello, i would like to ask if anyone can explain how the ,,Power Level,, in Deadfire works exactly. Comprehensively and in detail please. Thank you in advance.
  3. In order to be affected by increased power levels for spells and abilities, does it have to have the keyword in the description? For instance, I know that an item that gives + Fire Power Level will work with Flames of Devotion for sure because it has the keyword Fire in the description, but does the chanter invocation that deals shock damage improve with an item that gives + All Electricity Power Levels even though it doesn't say electricity in the keywords (just says Chanter Invocations)? I would just like some clarity on how to determine what affects what. Thanks! Edit: Okay, I found out that it increase power level does work on chanter invocations even when it does not have a keyword for that elemental power level. Tested using Deltro's Cage and Thrice She Was Wronged, Thrice Justly Avenged. So, if anyone was wondering, this likely means any kind of spell/ability damage is impacted by this even if it doesn't have the keywords.
  4. Plague of insects receives massive bonus from power level. For a level 19 druid, you have +220% damage and +110% duration from power level when other skills of the same tier only receive +60% damage and +30% duration. Or is this intended? It seems plague of insects is the only ability of druid that receives an unusual bonus. Updated: It's actually caused by alchemy. Skills that have poison as a keyword receive 1 power level per 1 alchemy, but i still report this as a bug for you can have over 20 power level by this way.
  5. There are abillities which appear in more than one class, like Beer Fortitude, Toughness, One Handed Style. And they are avaiable with power level. But there is a problem with multiclassing, since you cant take a individual twice from different class. Also you probably not interested in taking both One Hand and Two Hand styles. With some multiclass combos (lets say Rogue/Fighter) it looks like you have many abillities to choose at low levels. But in fact you are limitted. Morover: Swift movment, and Monastic training are very niche passives. This is not equal for all classes. CIpher or Chanter have a few low level abillities, so there is a chance at least 1 will fit you. Rogue/Fighter have very few class specific.Ranger is another example of class with wide selection of abilities to choose from level 1. Solution: Rearange neutral class abillties to generally lower their level, maybe even keep them all at max 7. Also give 9 neutral abilitties at level 0/1: 4x defensive 4x weapon spec. Toughness. Especially Toughness is something you would really want level 1 (litterally scales with level). Bonus to elemental damage also could be leve 1. Generally all neutral passives could be just -2 power levels, and sometimes even more. "In other crpgs" it is common that at level 1 you get bunch of neutral abillities as an option, and you can pick them up whenever you want. Limiting most of neutral feats to medium/high level is hipster design. I do not think they are that powerful, to limit their avaiability so hard (at least most of them), but maybe im wrong. Solution 2: Man up, there is a balance reason it is that way. There is a case that Great Soul and Prestige could be really strong on MC, but you will sacrifize level 7 class abilities for it. Also for single class having them 4 levels earlier is nice bonus to. What you think?
  6. I'd like to point out a potential issue with power level with respect to power source progression. One of the design goals of multiclassing is, to have multiclass characters at 75%-85% class efficacy of pure characters at the same level. In today's presentation Sawyer has shown the current tables and values, which give pure characters 3 power source points per level and multiclass characters 4 points, that are split between the two classes (3 in currently leveled up class and 1 in the other class). This gives a multiclass character an average power source point gain per level of 2 (i.e.: if class levels are split evenly between the classes, each class would receive an average of 2 points per level), which results in a multiclass character having an average power source point progression at 67% for each class, compared to a pure character. Assuming, that power level progression is linear (i.e.: character at power level 4 is at 80% efficacy of a character at power level 5), which seems to be an assumption also taken by designers (I'm basing this on the shown power level vs level table), this would mean, that given a linear relation between power level and power source would mean, that a multiclass character would be approximately at 66% efficacy. Of course, relation between power level and power source is not linear, as shown in the following table: Points Power Level 0-2 0 3 1 8 2 14 3 20 4 26 5 32 6 BUT! As it looks like, nonlinearity exists only for the first 3 power levels (~ 3 character levels) and is then linear up to at least power level 6 (~ character level 11). If it remains linear the character efficacy will inevitably limit towards 67%, which is well below the intended 'sweet spot' range. For curiosity's sake, I've made comparison of pure (PC) vs average multiclass character (MC) power levels (PL) and their ratio with respect to character level (CL): CL PC PL MC PL MC/PC 1 1 1 100% 2 1 1 100% 3 2 1 50% 4 2 2 100% 5 3 2 67% 6 3 2 67% 7 4 3 75% 8 4 3 75% 9 5 3 60% 10 5 4 80% 11 6 4 67% -linear assumption from here on- 12 6 4 67% 13 7 5 71% 14 7 5 71% 15 8 5 63% 16 8 6 75% 17 9 6 67% 18 9 6 67% Since I do not have the tables, I've assumed linear progression for pure character power level with respect to character level progression, as was indicated by Sawyer in the presentational video. My interpretation is, that the trend is already showing. Multiclassed character would also spend only 6 out of 17 levels not being worse than the intended efficacy (level 1 being exempt, because all characters are equal at level 1). TL;DR: Power level with respect to character level or power level with respect to power source progressions should most probably be tweaked to be more non-linear.
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