Dark Moth

Actually, I only comment on critisisms when they're unfounded or downright lies. You may not know this, but I actually voted for K1 over K2, largely due to what you mentioned (especially the ending). However, I'll defend any game, regardless if I loved it or hated it, if people bring up invalid arguments against it or if they exaggerate something about it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Easy, I was just playing with you, GoA. One other thing I disliked about K2 is that the exile seemed like a doomed character, no matter what you did. The game never really explained if you were still a wound in the force at the end of the game. I'm guessing/hoping it will be explained in K3, if it's ever made. And to me, he/she didn't feel as much like your character as Revan did in K1. And when K2 tried to explain Revan's past and his actions, he felt less like your character as well.

This is partly inspired by a pic I saw in the fanart thread. (credit goes to Darth Spock) :D Jedi Masters: You are a wound in the force. And because of that, we must cut you off from it. Exile: (laughs) Masters: What's so funny? Exile: I don't need your 'force' anyway! I've found something better! Masters: Better than the force? What could that be? Exile: This! (holds up a can of Red Bull) Masters: How do you expect to fight the Sith with that? Exile: Because Red Bull gives you wings! (drinks can and flies off)

I'd have to disagree (as if that's a surprise). I found male Revan saving Bastila through love a whole lot more uplifting and even realistic, even if a tad cliche. The romances were actually one of my favorite parts of the game. One of my favorite parts was teasing or flirting with Bastila and seeing her throw a fit. :D Agreed, I didn't even trust him either at first. And the whole "killing her because I loved her" thing was a tad creepy. The cut-scenes on the Ebon Hawk in K2 I thought weren't as funny or well-done as the interactions in K1, especially the ones between GO-TO and remote (the word 'pointless' comes to mind) Not really. Mission didn't have some huge secret, nor did Canderous or T3. And the 'secrets' they carried didn't hide who they were. The characters were who they seemed to be, they just hid certain experiences from your character, which is natural. It was in K2 where you had people who were not what they appeared to be (Kreia, Atton, Mandalore (although most knew who he was), GO-TO). HK-47 is probably the only exception, although Zalbaar's secret also might be counted. Disagree. Those are a lot of unfair generalizations about the characters that many people make, I think. Canderous wasn't 'psychotic', Carth, while he whined, was also betrayed by his best friend and mentor and lost his wife and son in the process. " As for whiners, I'm surprised how some people seemed to forget how much Atton whined in K2 (especially on Peragus). Bastila really didn't preach much about the darkside, only a few times, and the reason she did it was understandable (you being Darth Revan, of course). Although T3 didn't have a personality, agreeed. And I thought Jolee was funny, if a tad annoying. In both games, i'd say my favorite character was Bastila followed closely by HK-47. My least favorite/most hated was GO-TO followed closely by Kreia. (while she was useful in combat, I hated her back-stabbing guts)

Yup, same here. One thing I felt was that in K2 we traded in some nice new stuff for overall quality, meaning: an unfinished game, a bad ending (of course), a bigger glitch problem, and the same (if not worse) problem with constant loading screens. Not to mention the plotholes and incomplete quests. I think the devs dropped the ball in many aspects. I also felt the story in K1 was better than K2, but my biggest disappointment was that the story in K2 could have been so much better. For other viewpoints, you may have to wait a bit before GoA comes rushing to K2's defense.

One of the defining characteristics of KOTOR is its party-member system, which both games relied heavily on. Party members played an important part to the overall story and game for both KOTOR's. There does seem to be debate over which party system was done better, and so I started this thread to discuss the parties in both games. Basically, as a whole, which party did you prefer? Which did you think was better done? How could they improve on them? For me, I'd say I preferred the K1 party a tad more. I found the characters very well done, and I felt many of them were deep as well, more so than some people claim they are. I also found them a little more likeable than the ones in K2. I also felt the system of finding out the NPC's past based on levels instead of inlfuence worked out almost better than the influence system, even though it was less creative. With K1, at least you had a sure way of getting all the dialogue out of a party member, especially without having to compromise your alignment. One of the frustrating things in K2 was having to choose dialogue choices that would mess up your alignment just to gain influence, or missing influence opportunities just because you didn't have the right NPC at the time. In K2, I felt it also had deep characters as well (Kreia, Mira), but I found some of them also had practically no history (Visas) or were just plain useless (GO-TO). One thing it did do better was being able to change NPC's alignments (except Kreia) and giving each NPC unique abilities and feats. Contrary to what some say, though, I think the K1 party members were deep and well-thought out, although there were exceptions (T3). Thoughts?

Hehe... The first time I heard this song I laughed so hard. :D I'm an As*hole by Dennis Leary (talking) Folks I'd like to sing a song about the American Dream About me About you About the way our American hearts beat way down in the bottoms of our chests About that special feeling we get in the c0ckles of our hearts Or maybe below the c0ckles Maybe in the sub-c0ckle area Maybe in the liver Maybe in the kidneys Maybe even in the colon We don't know (sings) I'm just a regular joe With a regular job I'm your average white Suburbanite slob I like football, and porno, and books about war I've got an average house With a nice hardwood floor My wife, and my job My kids, and my car My feet on the table And a Cuban cigar But sometimes that just ain't enough To keep a man like me interested Oh no, no way, uh uhh No, I gotta go out and have fun At someone else's expense Oh yeah, yeah yeah, yeah yeah yeah I drive really slow In the ultra-fast lane While people behind me are going insane I'm an as*hole (he's an a**hole, what an a**hole) I'm an a**hole (he's an a**hole, such an a**hole) I use public toilets And I p1ss on the seat I walk around in the summer time sayin', "How about this heat?" I'm an a**hole (he's an a**hole, what an a**hole) I'm an a**hole (he's the worlds biggest a**hole) Sometimes I park in the handicapped spaces While handicapped people Make handicapped faces I'm an a**hole (he's an a**hole, what an a**hole) I'm an a**hole (he's a real f*cking a**hole) Maybe I shouldn't be singin' this song Ranting and raving and carrying on Maybe they're right when they tell me I'm wrong... ... NAAAHHHHH! I'm an a**hole (he's an a**hole, what an a**hole) I'm an a**hole (he's the world's biggest a**hole) (talks) You know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna get myself a 1967 Cadilac El Dorado Convertable Hot pink! With whale skin hub caps An all leather cow interior And big brown baby seal eyes for headlights YEAH! And I'm gonna drive around in that baby At 115 miles per hour Getting one mile per gallon Sucking down Quarter Pounder cheeseburgers from McDonalds in the old-fashioned non-biodegradable Styrofoam containers And when I'm done sucking down those grease-ball burgers I'm gonna wipe my mouth with the American flag And then I'm gonna toss the Styrofoam containers right out the side And there ain't a Godd**n thing anybody can do about it You know why? 'Cause we got the bombs, that's why! Two words: Nuclear F*ckin' Weapons Okay!? Russia, Germany, Romania They can have all the Democracy they want They can have a big Democracy cake walk Right through the middle of Tienemen Square And it won't make a lick of difference Because we got the bombs Okay!? John Wayne's not dead He's frozen! And as soon as we find a cure for cancer We're gonna thaw out "The Duke" And he's gonna be pretty pissed off You know why? Have you ever taken a cold shower? Well, multiply that by 15 million times That's how pissed off "The Duke"'s gonna be I'm gonna get "The Duke" And John Cassavetes And Lee Marvin And Sam Peckinpah And a case of whiskey And drive down to Texas And- (Hey, Hey! You know you really are an a**hole) Why don't you just shut-up and sing the song, pal? (sings) I'm an a**hole (he's an a**hole, what an a**hole) I'm an a**hole (he's the worlds biggest a**hole) A - SS - HO - LE! Everybody!! A - SS - HO - LE! *dog barking noises* I'm an a**hole and proud of it! (apparently these boards edit out the word "c*ck" so that's why I used zeros for the word *c0ckle)

What I want to know is why Malachor V created the whole "wound in the force" in the exile, but you didn't see that happen any other time a planet died. You didn't see that in Star Wars IV or KOTOR 1. Yet for some reason, it happened with the exile and Nihilus. But I have to disagree with Hawk and say that I don't want to see another character spawned from Malachor V in K3. We've already seen two of those (Nihilus, exile) and I think doing the same in K3 would only be repetetive.

Hmm...I'm more of a dog person, but my family has a lot of cats, so I've learned to like both of them.

He should also try posting them on FanFiction.net. By the way, sweet pic, Satasn.

(w00t) (w00t) (w00t) (w00t) Gold. I didn't know Anakin was made by the Presbyterian Church.

Mmm...Visas. Nice drawings, Kor. Just a couple things about your second pic: you might want to try making her chin a little smaller and her face a little less square.

To you, to me and to those who understand the differences in them, they are. But to countless planets who see ANY Force user as a Jedi, it's not the same thing. For the general population it was Jedi vs. Jedi. As for why not call it the Sith Civil war, that's simple. The general population thought of all Force users as JEDI, not Sith. To them there was no Sith. Everyone wielding a lightsaber and using these mystical powers were Jedi. It was named by what the general population thought of it as. Saying it was inaccurate is like saying the US' current "War on Terror" is an inaccurate name because, from the Terrorists' point of view it's not the case. You're always going to find different opinions and various points of view that make something inaccurate, but for the majority of people the Jedi Civil War is accurate enough to be feasible, just like The War on Terror is accurate enough for those who aren't on the side of Al Queada. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> True, but then again, we're dealing with a label for a set of beliefs, instead of a generic term like "terrorist". I don't think it's much different than perhaps, looking at them like two different religions. For instance, I'm a Christian now, but if I converted to a Muslim, would that still make me a Christian? No. And if you had a huge religious war between Christians and Muslims, you wouldn't call it a Christian Civil War, would you?

The general population who believed that Jedi and Sith are one in the same would argue that you could just as easily call it the Jedi Invasion. Much too generic. It tells nothing of who was involved in the conflict. Too centred on two individuals. World War II wasn't called "The Hitler Takeover". See response to #1. In other words, all four of your examples aren't any more "accurate" than the current name. Which isn't to say I think the names you came up are wrong or stupid, but that if we use your criteria for dismissing the legitimacy of "The Jedi Civil War" because of its inaccuracy, then so too can you dismiss the names you came up. My point? If you get that anal about "inaccuracy", then there's pretty much NOTHING you can name it that won't end up being picked apart. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> 1. Okay, but then again, didn't I say before that the Sith are NOT Jedi? Yes, that is more accurate. 2. Okay, it's generic, but hey. That's probably the weakest on the list. 3. Yes, but Revan and Malak were the two who were at the head of everything, weren't they? They were the ones who started the entire thing. 4. Same as #1 My entire point about it being a Jedi Civil war centers around one big thing: Jedi and Sith are two different beliefs. They are NOT the same. That is why to call it a Jedi Civil War is innaccurate, more so than anything I listed above. Besides, if the population would think that the Jedi and Sith are no different, than wouldn't calling it the Sith Civil War be perfectly acceptable also? There you go.

So basically you're shooting down the name they chose, but have nothing to suggest yourself? Isn't that the ultimate weak argument? Point fault at something presented, but have no rebuttle yourself. You're harping on "Jedi Civil War" being inaccurate, so I'm saying suggest something that would be, even if it's just your own opinion, an "accurate" name for the war. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Very well... 1. The Sith [or Dark Jedi] Invasion - (you could also tack on a date) 2. The Post-Mandalorian Conflict 3. The Revan-Malak Invasion 4. The Sith Uprising (maybe add a date) While I'm pretty sure these might seem a tad bland, I think they're a more accurate than "The Jedi Civil War". If you're still unsatisfied, I could come up with more. And if anyone else out there thinks they have a better name, shoot.

But aren't you now making the same mistake that you described in your first paragraph above? While we might not have seen pure jedi vs. jedi fights in KotOR1, that doesn't mean that they didn't take place. In fact, the Endar Spire was under direct command by the jedi, IIRC, and we did see one jedi and sith fighting each other, and another killing Trask Ulgo... I'd agree with you the whole Manaan thing is very odd - there should have been several jedi there, as I've stated elsewhere on this forum. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The thing on Manaan should show you that this wasn't just the Jedi's war. But in my post, I was countering Calax's statement that you saw no battles between soldiers except on the Endar Spire. As you said, just because we didn't see more than that doesn't mean they didn't happen. And I'm sure there were purely Jedi vs Sith (Dark Jedi) battles, but as I said, it's not as if it was just Jedi fighting for the Republic. The 'ordinary' guys fought, too. The main point I'm making is that it wasn't Jedi all Jedi fighting other Jedi, and there were more people fighting for the Republic than just Jedi.

:'( How could you? Even still, I don't think it'd be a good idea to have her dead in 1 scenario out of 4, especially considering how important her character was. If anything, they should include in K3 no matter what gender Revan was. If they didn't, I think they'd be downplaying her character's role a whole lot.

So what would you have called the war then? What name would have been more accurate for it, keeping in mind who the main combatants were (no cop outs with "Galactic War"), and who the "general population" resented for the war. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Does it matter who the population resented? That doesn't make it any more accurate. Once again, look at the examples I gave of conflict names that are innacurate (Bunker Hill, 1812) And what I would call it is irrelevant, because even if I were to give examples, that would still not prevent the name from being inaccurate.

(Applauds) Yay! Sweet, Aimo! I know what I'm going to be downloading today. :D

The thing is, the War of 1812 WASN'T fought in just 1812, and the 100 years' war didn't last 100 years. That's an example of how names can be inaccurate because of peoples' conceptions. And you're forgetting, it's a game, so naturally you're not going to see every battle. There were a lot of battles taking place between mere soldiers, it just so happened that the only one you saw was the Endar Spire. The Jedi Civil War was fought in large ship-to-ship battles, but that right there means there weren't just Jedi involved. The Jedi weren't the ones who piloted all those capital ships. Also, you'll see on Manaan how even ordinary Republic and Sith soldiers fight (argue) in the streets. And on Taris, it was Sith soldiers, not Dark Jedi, who were patrolling the streets.

Didn

But Malak wasn't a Jedi during the war. He was a Sith. While many of the Sith were once Jedi who abandoned the order, the fact remains that once they become Sith or Dark Jedi, they abandon the beliefs of the Jedi and are no longer Jedi. So regardless of what one might think, calling the conflict the Jedi Civil War, regardless of why it was named that, is innacurate. End of story. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not so - as GhostofAnakin says, to the galaxy Jedi and Sith amount to pretty much the same thing - this was also evident in KotOR I Loading screen: "Many people distrust the Jedi almost as much as they do the Sith, they don't understand either group" "Jedi Civil War", if understood as "a war amongst Jedi" is an inaccurate term because Jedi vs Dark Jedi/Sith wasn't what the conflict was. Even if it had been called the "Jedi vs Sith War" it would have been inaccurate. The Republic was at war with the "Sith" (inclusive of dark Jedi and military) and the Jedi defended the Republic. *Thats* what we were shown in KotOR 1, *thats* what the general public seemed to see it as. Not a Civil War amongst Jedi factions, a "Civil War" within the galaxy. Never did you see a an average person say, "The Jedi bombed Telos", it was always "The Sith destroyed Telos" - not because they understood the difference between Jedi and Sith (they might well have thought the Sith were led by "Jedi") but because they understood that it was a war between the Republic and the Sith - not Jedi branches. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> But it doesn't matter how the rest of the Galaxy sees Jedi and Sith in this instance. It's still inaccurate. Why? Because the term "Jedi Civil War" implies that it was an internal conflict between factions of Jedi. People can be innaccurate in naming wars and conflicts. For instance, the war of 1812 wasn't just fought in 1812, but it's known as that. Or how the Battle of Bunker Hill wasn't fought on Bunker Hill. That's the same thing here. Calling the term Jedi Civil War 'innaccurate' is not inaccurate. I know all about how people in the SW universe tend to distrust Jedi and Sith and don't see the difference in either group, but that still doesn't make it any less accurate. But they didn't call it a Galactic Civil War, they called it a Jedi Civil War, as if it was just Jedi fighting Jedi, which was not true. As I said, Dark Jedi and Sith are not Jedi, and there were also more involved than just Jedi.

Vrook was annoying in both KOTOR's. He is also a hypocrite in that he accuses others around him of exhibiting pride and arrogance while he does the same thing constantly. Of all the Masters in the game, he was the one I actually hated. I was actually glad to see him die in K2.

But Malak wasn't a Jedi during the war. He was a Sith. While many of the Sith were once Jedi who abandoned the order, the fact remains that once they become Sith or Dark Jedi, they abandon the beliefs of the Jedi and are no longer Jedi. So regardless of what one might think, calling the conflict the Jedi Civil War, regardless of why it was named that, is innacurate. End of story.

First time I got that cheat, I didn't even know it and dismissed it as a glitch. I didn't realize until after reading about it that it was a real cheat. As for Dantooine, I think maybe you can't head for Dantooine next (after your third Star Map) for the cheat to work.

Well that sucks, especially considering how important she was to the game. I hope that's not the case. If you think about it, she was the most important character in K1 except for Revan.