Dark Moth

Only 2 flaws in your argument: 1. Revan didn't even know about the True Sith when he went to fight the Mandalorians. He discovered them either during or after the Mandalorian wars. The Jedi wanted to wait because they sensed another threat out there, and it turned out being the True Sith. Revan going to war was just what the Sith Empire wanted. 2. The exile followed Revan to war. If Revan hadn't gone, it's likely the exile wouldn't have gone either, therefore no 'general', no Malachor V, no wound in the force, no Nihilus. And if Revan hadn't fought in the wars, there would be no Jedi civil war, and the Republic would actually have been stronger for that and more able to deal with the Sith. Also, without Nihilus, most Jedi would have survived, and the Republic would have been even stronger. And even if you say Revan was justified because he discovered the Sith Empire, if he really wanted to save the Republic, he would not have fought it, he would have tried to strengthen it by other means. Civil war only weakens a nation. And Bastila did accept responsibility for Revan's mind being wiped. It upset her greatly, and as I said earlier, she couldn't stand it. That was one of the seeds planted in her mind that eventually led to her distrust of the Jedi and her fall to the darkside.

There's another game inconsistancy: K2 acted as if destroying entire plants was a new thing. You saw the Death Star blow up a planet in Episode IV, no wound in the force. Malak we know killed off at least three planets (Telos, Taris, and Dantooine) and we know Taris had more lives than were on Malachor. Still, no wound in the force. And the exile didn't go through all of Peragus without the force. As soon as you get to level 1, you get the force back. And so what if Revan only lived a year or so without the force? He still did it, and proved he could get by without it.

No, the Jedi acted purely out of desperation in K1. They had no other choice. It was in K2 where they acted out of fear and arrogance. (see my above post) And Revan going to war actually hurt the Republic in the long one, for it soon sparked the Jedi civil war and created the wound in the force at Malachor V. In a sense, the Jedi were right. And Bastila didn't 'use' you because she wanted to. She had to. She had a duty to do, and she did it. And she also hated herself for it as well (she tells you later on). Revan going to war in the Mandalorian wars might have actually killed off more lives than saved them. EDIT: fixed a little grammatical error above.

Meh. I'm basically a tech robot. <_<

Revan definitely would have won. The only reason the exile is strong is because he/she is a wound in the force. Revan was always powerful. And the exile was nothing without the force, either. He lived, but he couldn't do anything. The only time he made a difference in his life was when he could feel the force. The only reason he defeated Nihilus was because Nihilus couldn't feed off him. Revan was one of the greatest force-users ever. And Revan was powerful without the force, too. Just look at all he had done on Taris before he re-established his powers. Revan>Exile

I'm not referring to the ones in K2, am I? I'm talking about the ones in K1. The three of them (Vrook, Kavar, Zez-kai ell) were idiots. Atris was a b1tch and Vash got killed. The wiser ones: Vandar, Dorak, Zhar, were all killed. Actually, the ones in K2 didn't even seem that bad until the ending scene on Dantooine. There that's where they really sunk to a new low. But if the Jedi Masters were always as idiotic as K2 made them seem, the Jedi order would not have survived. Their actions in K1 were justified, their actions in K2 were not. End of story.

A lot more likeable? Are you talking about the same "likeable" Jedi Masters who stole your mind and identity, stripping you of every memory that you had, all because they wanted to achieve their own goals? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Achieve their own goals? You mean saving the galaxy and countless lives from a monster, right? I guess if you call that 'their own goals', yes. Revan was a monster at the time of his betrayal, no matter how you look at it. Malak was a monster. Both had caused horrible damage to the Republic. Revan, because he wanted to fight the 'true Sith' and Malak just because he wanted to see things blow up. The Jedi had to do something to save themselves and defeat the Sith. It was war, for crying out loud. And what else could they have done? Besides, it was Malak's betrayal that damaged Revan's mind in the first place. You have to listen to what Bastila says. On the Rakatan temple, she also explains how you have a new identiy, but still kept all the essence of who you were before your betrayal and memory wipe. What would you have done? What else could they have done? Nothing. And the ones in K1 were a whole lot more likeable (even Vrook wasn't as annoying, but he was still a schutta), and a whole lot more wise, too. The ones in K2 were the bottom of the barrel.

Another one? Bold words, and I would like to have a list of other inconsistencies. This one, as I explained, isn't an inconsistency. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Please read my entire post instead of taking it out of context, thank you. And there were inconsistancies in the game, so it's not like that was the only one. One of the things I disliked about K2 was that they seemed to radically downplay Bastila's character and 'deify' Revan to the point where he seemed like a force god. I thought that was a little unrealistic. I think the main reason for this, though, was to turn him into a hero no matter what and make the players feel good about themselves. Bastila was in hiding, that's why the Sith didn't know about her. Perhaps Revan's main task for her was to be safe from the Sith because he realized he would need her later, and, of course, he loved her as well. I just hope they give her character her credit back in K3.

Also, K2 isn't a good representation of what the Jedi Masters are normally like. They were a lot more likeable in K1, except for Vrook. The ones in K2, to be blunt, were a bunch of dumbasses (and traitors, to boot).

Also, a melee shield would deflect the bullets, since they're solid projectiles. And a Jedi could also force-push them away like Neo in The Matrix.

I personally would love to see an RPG that doesn't focus on Jedi or force-users, just so long as it's not K3. We have to have force users for that one. After that, I don't care.

Dude, you flamed and you got a thread locked. Get over it. And I think the thread had outlived its usefulness, anyway. But I do agree perhaps he should have only listed reason #1. Sorry, Battlewookie.

Aaah...I see the light now. You were joking. Sorry, I'm not with it today. I kind of figured you were, but wasn't sure. I have seen people say similar things in the past and they were serious, too. Now, thanks to you, this thread might get locked if Battlewookie is doing what I fear he's doing.

Kreia lies, betrays, manipulates, blackmails, (also, remember the scene on Telos where she reads Atton's mind), and also gets into your head more than once, and you say she has never messed with anyone's head?. I know I'm not clinically retarded. Are you? Also, linky.

Please tell me you're joking.

As much as I like Monty Python, please keep the spam, spam, glorious spam out of this thread, lest you be pelted with dead animals by French knights.

The Star Forge was a place that corrupted Jedi. Revan had several places he used to break Jedi - places of intense dark power - the Star Forge and Malachor V were two of them. And the game never explains why the hell the exile and Revan have to face the true Sith alone. It doesn't even make sense, if you think about it. Two people can't hope to defeat them alone. I guess it's all going to be explained in K3 (if it ever comes out).

Yay! Some news! I'm still looking for a release date. I've been waiting for that %@ game to come out for years. I'm a big Starcraft fan.

Explain why Empire Strikes Back doesn't come out and say Leia is Luke's sister then. They dropped hints leading up to that, but using your theory then they would have said so at the end of ESB otherwise that's "proof". Sure no one dies like Kreia did, but the point is a story string was still left hanging despite clues being dropped about it, and despite the fact it was never resolved at the end of the movie. If KOTOR2 is just the middle game in the series (like many suspect), then everything doesn't need to be wrapped up at the end, despite the death of the character. Handmaiden could just find out later about it after Kreia's death. I don't personally think Kreia is, but your "proof" is weak at best. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I never said that was proof, I was just using that as an example. <_< If you look at the canon, it says Kreia was a historian/Jedi Master, Kae was a Jedi Knight. If I ever find a link, I'll post it. And I don't think even Obsidian would be as shallow to use the "I am your parent!" theme over again. And it wouldn't make sense for them to try to wrap that up in K3, it's not important enough. And Handmaiden is an optional character, so if you played a female, then you would have heard nothing of Kae and she would be of practically zero importance, anyway. I think people who think Kreia was Handmaiden's mom are just digging to deep in the storyline, trying to tie up loose ends that aren't there. The only reason Kae was mentioned was so that Handmaiden would be force-sensitive and have a reason to be converted. And if you listen to the dialogue when you ask Brianna (Handmaiden) about her mother, one of the dialogue options is something like "She was one of the Jedi who died...good riddance." Nay. Kreia wasn't Kae. I can't exactly prove it, but I still thinks so. By the way, here's a link to a sight with some info about Kreia. It might answer some questions.

Aaahh...I see now. Cool idea. Only other problem I'd have with that is that the game would eventually end up taking place over 20 years after K2 (after your character grows up), but that's my preference. I'd rather have it take place sooner. Unless, maybe, the prologue took place during either K1 or K2, that might make it interesting.

@Darkside: We fanboys love Master Chief, too! Here's another one of my favorites.

Don't be so sure. There seems to be unusually high fanboy activity on this thread recently. ^_^ :ph34r: I do love liz hurley, though. Darth Launch seems to be upset with us fanboys... :ph34r:

^_^ ....

For crying out loud, Kreia dies in the end! If that were so, don't you think we would have at least know whether or not Kreia was Kae or not?!!! If they had ever intended to make Kreia Handmaiden's mom, they obviously ditched it in the early stages of development. If that's the case, than Kreia still isn't Handmaiden's mom, since the idea was abandoned. Also, see my other post on this thread.

hello! :D I've seen longer posts, believe me. I'm saying that if you already give the player exp. and LS/DS points in the beginning, you give the player less of a chance to go and earn the points themselves and adjust the character's alignment. It sort of takes away from the ability to customize your character entirely on your own. And if you give them fewer opportunities to earn LS/DS points, than it's be harder to adjust alignment and earn a mastery in either alignment. And if you happen to have to earn points opposite your alignment in the game (say, to complete a mission, which happened to me a couple times in both games), it'd be harder to make up those points since you don't have as many chances to earn those points back. Get any of that? I hope that's not confusing. By the way, for those of you who are talking about losing limbs, I think we can all forget about that ever happening. Keep dreaming.