Dark Moth

One can argue that KOTOR:2 allowed us to do that via influence. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, but then you have a DS Handmaiden chastising you for doing something 'bad'. " I'd say the system definitely needs some tuning.

Of course. He got famous for punching people.

Revan was a badass and probably the most powerful of his time, (except maybe Nihilus, but that's a different story), but not the ultimate Sith Lord of all time. I mean, Vader was born through the force, and Sidious took over the Republic without even waging war against them. And Revan would have died if it weren't for Bastila. Also, I think K2 kind of 'deified' Revan to the extant he just seemed unhuman, not like he really was. As for Nihilus, he was probably more powerful, but his weakness was his hunger, and that became his downfall because he could not 'feed' off the exile. And just out of curiosity, Master Revan, but why would you respond like that to a statement that was posted months ago?

Meh. At least nobody's posted a picture of Atton...yet. (mumbles) Stupid Aimo and her hundreds of Atton pics. <_< :D Here's another KOTOR character I loved.

I'm interested, but I don't know if I'd be able to be an active particapant simply due to time constraints, esp. With school starting in less than a month. But I'll go and check it out.

You need to spar with Handmaiden 3 times before turning her into a Jedi. If I remember correctly, I was able to spar with her the third time and convert her after I went prestige, so I probably sparred her around levels 15-17. But I don't think it's master-based. I could be wrong, though.

I don't have a problem with there being multiple enemies. You faced different enemies in K1, also. My problem is that in K2 the Sith are such a big threat, yet have probably the least amount of screentime as all other enemies. It sort of downplayed the threat they posed. As I said above, the biggest threat in the galaxy seemed to be mercenaries. <_<

Try telling that to my Jedi Master exile with LS Mastery. " That's another thing I disliked about K2. No matter what you did or how extreme your alignment was, it tried to make you into a gray Jedi. Even in the end Kreia says "you are not a Jedi, and for that I love you...blah blah blah" I thought that was just wrong. That's even more absurd considering they introduced prestige classes based on alignment. In K1, if you were either LS or DS, you knew it. In K2, they made it seam as if there was no difference between the two. I don't have a problem with the game being gray, I thought it was a tad too gray. In the end of K1, the endings were radically different. In K2, the only difference you see is if a planet blows up or not. You'd think they'd be a little more creative than that.

Sion wasn't working for Nihilus. The two of them got tired of Kreia/Traya and cast her out. Since Nihilus was stronger than Kreia anyway, he could have done it himself. Thinking about it, Kreia got beaten pretty easily in that cutscene between the three Sith Lords. Sure, I guess you had to make a third Sith Lord, but he didn't contribute enough to be nearly as important as the other two. Kreia I don't think submitted Sion to her will, it was an alliance forged out of 'hatred', as Kreia put it. But Sion and Nihilus eventually betrayed Kreia/Traya and exiled her. That is why Kreia wanted revenge in the first place.

WOW!!!! (w00t) Those are some fine Bastila sketches, HarrySorne. And welcome to the forums. Beware of rabid fangirlism.

Duck and cover!!! :ph34r:

War's over? Oh well.

Never!!! The fanboyism will not be defeated!!!

I think you mistunderstood me when I said that Nihilus could have had his part. I meant that Nihilus could have been just the single main Sith Lord out there. I still stand by that Sion's actions were not important. At least, not important enough to be essential to the story. Sure you could have replaced Han with another smuggler, but the smuggler role had to be filled. Sion's role could have been left empty and the story would still have worked. And Nihilus DID betray Kreia. Nihilus WAS in himself a failed student. He already fulfilled the role of student and traitor. Nihilus WAS chasing after the exile. It was betrayal that motivated Kreia's actions for the most part, not just because Sion was a 'failed student'. Kreia wanted revenge on him for his betrayal. But Nihilus did all that himself and much more, so Sion was NOT important to the story in the long run. All I'm saying is that with Nihilus there, you did not need a 'Sion character'. The only reason I'm making a big deal is that Sion was hyped, but in the end was not that important to the story. Nihilus was hyped, but he contributed far more to the story than Sion.

Just be glad I haven't used my ace. Yet... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Your ace?! I'm scared. :ph34r: And now for a break from all those testosterone pictures. Carmen Electra. Thank the gods for google. :D

Same can be said for Malak. They could have just had him betray Revan, but get killed as he was fleeing and have a Sith Lord rise to take over the Star Forge. The point is the character DID do those things. Malak DID betray Revan, just as Sion DID betray Kreia. Both are responsible for setting the events in motion, so that's why I think it's silly to say one was not even needed for one story, but the other was vital. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No, it wouldn't have been pointless. Malak was the only other one other than Revan able to wield the Star Forge, in fact he eventually discovered more of its power than Revan did. Him being your former apprentice and best friend made it all the more personal. It added to the overall drama. Regardless, you needed a "Malak" character to get it done. And it just would have been pointless to have a Sith kill Malak and take his place before your character did. What would it have added to the story? Nothing. Just the same way Sion contributed nothing to the story. They could have easily given his part to Nihilus. As I said, Nihilus betrayed Kreia also, and that was the real motivation for her training the exile. She couldn't do it herself, so she had to train the exile to get revenge on the Jedi and Sith for her. She tells you that in the end.

Yeah, but the Mira/Hanharr scene could have been settled back on Nar Shadaa. It was pointless to have it there. All it did was detract from your goal of finding Kreia. The only reason the droid scene was important because it would explain why Malachor V blows up in the end. And I while you seem to prefer to be able to breeze right through the final level, there are many of us who appreciate the final level to be somewhat challenging. But I stand by what I said: the Star Forge was far superior to Malachor V in every way. Even music.

Okay, time for more female pics! Trish is just beautiful. Her Canadian looks charm me. Although, the word 'fake' comes to mind every time I see her. " Not that she's the only one, but still.

I *really* think you're overlooking Nihilus' special ties to the Exile... Yes, he may have been a pushover in combat, but plotwise he is a central character, and he scared the living **** out of me when I confronted him... Until the actual fight began, that is <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I was referring to Sion, not Nihilus. I should have phrased it like: "Nihilus would have betrayed Kreia anyway, and because of this almost everything could have happened without Sion." Then follow with this: So in K1's case, if Malak had not betrayed Revan the story wouldn't have taken place. But in K2's case, if Sion (and Nihilus, another guy you said had no real point) didn't betray Kreia, then the story would have still gone on? You contradict yourself so bad in that explanation. The entire reason for the events of K2 is because of Kreia and her goals. She's the one that wanted the Exile back in known space, she's the one that wanted the Exile to draw out those who hurt/betrayed her. If it weren't for Sion (and Nihilus), then Kreia wouldn't have been betrayed, thus Kreia wouldn't have sought out the Exile to do her dirty work, and thus the entire story wouldn't have happened. It seems to me you're downplaying Sion's part and glorifying Malak's part (btw, I do believe BOTH were necessary and integral to each plot) because you liked K1, but disliked K2. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> My point is, you had to have a "Malak" in K1 for the story to work. He was pivotal to the plot. But you didn't need a "Sion" character for the K2 story to work. Nihilus could have handled the rest on his own. And I never said Nihilus was pointless (correct me if I'm wrong), I was just talking about Sion. Nihilus and Kreia were both very important characters, but with both of them in the mix Sion's character did not contribute much to the overall story. I didn't contradict myself at all. And while I liked K1, I'm not speaking just because I thought it was better. I'm just saying that with both Kreia and Nihilus, you didn't really *need* a Sion. In K1, however, you *needed* a Malak character for it to work.

He was Kreia's "failed" student and thus part of her motivation for training the Exile. Saying he didn't contribute to the story is like saying "what did Malak contribute to K1?". What DID Malak contribute? He betrayed Revan, but the story itself could have worked if any other Sith had then defeated Malak and taken control of the Star Forge. The story itself was about Revan and his redemption, Malak just played a part in it. That is, of course, if you narrow his part in the story down the way you did to Sion. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Are you serious? Malak had a huge role in K1! The story was tied to him in a ton of ways. He was also, of course, the main bad guy. Without his character, or someone to fill his place, the story would never have happened. Your character would never have been betrayed in the first place, and the rest of everything in K1 would not have happened. As for Sion, look at his character and the part he played. He betrayed Kreia, but so did Nihilus. He was not unique in that aspect, either. If you look at his character and all his contributions, they really don't matter that much. If you had 2 Sith Lords instead of three, the story would have still worked out. Why? Nihilus would have betrayed Kreia anyway, and almost everything that happened could have been done without him. Because he really didn't contribute that much. He's really not unique in any way. I stand by what I said: his character was just there to fill up space and look mean. Not to mention that he turned into a crybaby in the end. " "Waaah! Kreia doesn't like me anymore!"

I'll grant Nihilus didn't have much of a part in the game, atleast in terms of a huge connection to the Exile (other than Kreia's assertion that he was created from Malachor and what the Exile did there), but your comment about Sion is way off. He's the one hunting you from the get go (first cut scene), he confronts you at Korriban, and he's the one that goes into a big speech during his fight with you on Malachor V. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, but what did he contribute to the story, overall? Nothing, really. Sure he was hunting you, but so were all the other Sith. It's not like he was unique in that aspect. IMO, they could have gotten rid of his character and it wouldn't have made much of a difference. You could go on and say the same thing about Darth Bandon in K1, but Bandon was never hyped as an important character. He was just stuck in to give you an extra guy to fight. Sion was very hyped (not as much as Nihilus, I admit), but after playing K2 twice, I think he was just there for show.

WHAT? :'( Oooh...Jodo's not going to like this. Does that mean art in general, or just SW fanart? And what exactly do you mean by issues, if you don't mind me asking? I guess I've taken a liking to your Samurai guy.

It makes perfect sense for the Ark to be Earth, I think. I think that's what the Covenant were looking for in the very beginning of the game. That's how they discovered Earth, but they were looking for the Ark, not the humans. That is why they were not expecting a human presence and were caught completely by surprise when they first arrived at Earth.

Okay, good point, but if you consider Kreia, the main thing she did was simply mentor your character and fill you in on certain details, especially about Revan. The whole "destroying the force" thing I think was a tad lame, esp since they never fully explained how you could do that. And even if you exclude Kreia as the main villain, that could still be done. Nihilus would be your main bad guy, Kreia would be the one to help bring you back to the force, Visas could tell about the Sith Lords and show you how to defeat Nihilus, and you could get your information on Revan from a variety of different sources and NPC's, such as the Jedi Masters. They could have made Nihilus the main baddy and I think that still would have worked out okay. In fact, it could have been him from whom you find out about the "True Sith". And um... I dunno. That's just how I see things. Edit: I changed the idea on this post, because after thinking about it, Kreia is important, but not necessarily as a villain or nemesis.

Oh, you're serious, aren't you? If you exclude Kreia, then basically your enemies have way less screentime than K1. In K1, you were constantly reminded of the Sith threat, and they fought you on every planet and you were shown glimpses of them in cutscenes. And the Ravager was, or course, entirely Sith. And since some don't even consider Kreia a real "villain", that's basically a moot point. Nihilus got practically no screentime except when you battle him (and he was a pushover), and Sion got barely any more time. And if you think about it, Sion was just there for show. I mean, if you exclude his character, it doesn't make an impact on the story at all. They could have easily done the game without Sion. Kreia was, of course, the final boss, and Nihilus destroyed Katarr and essentially brought about Visas's character and, of course, he was actually a threat to all life. Sion was just someone there to take up space. While Malak was a tad cliche, I found him far more believable and overall better done than either Sion or Nihilus. Kreia was more complex and could have been better done, but Malak seemed to be the better "villain". They went for a Sidious type character for Kreia, but IMO it failed.