Dark Moth

I simply can't stand people who make songs like that - ones that complain about how much life sucks, or how corrupt their society and government is, or how everything in the world is a mess, blah blah blah. All these people ever do is moan and piss and b1tch about everything they can think of. Geez, if life sucks so bad, why don't you kill yourself? Oh, I forgot - if you did, then your paycheck wouldn't keep coming in, would it? And suicide is NOT something we need to see being encouraged in the music industry. And those who are always expressing their hatred of society. These people don't do a thing by doing what they do. If society's so bad, why don't they help make it better? Do they donate money to the poor? No. Do they contribute to homeless shelters? No. Do they participate in food drives? No. Do they work with charities to help out others in need? No. Hell, even if they hate the government, do they write letters, hold demonstrations/protests, or give speeches? No! Do you know what they do? The piss and moan about everything, put it in a song, and then sell it to make a buck. These people do nothing to better society. In some aspects, they might make things worse by making others believe they live in a terrible, corrupt, repressive world, or by making others depressed, dillusional, etc. (the word 'goth' comes to mind). These people are hypocrites. Okay, I'm done ranting. Sorry, but I had to comment on that given the number of songs like that I've seen.

I actually wouldn't have minded if they left Revan's gender open, since that really didn't have much overall effect on the story, and it would have satisfied all fans. The only thing that may need to be official is alignment. Don't forget, if Revan was DS, he launches a new war against the Republic at the end of K1. K2 solved this by having him leave no matter what alignment, but this is doubly important for the exile, though. If he is DS, than the entire Jedi order is destroyed, and there is no one left to rebuild it. @Metadigital: The only reason I said Revan was a LS male is because I had seen it previously stated as the official canon. Whether you like it or not, that is the canonical story. Period. Stamped. While I preferred the LS male story, I don't NEED him to be LS male. I'm fine with either one. My reasons aren't selfish, it's just my preferance to view Revan as LS male.

Meh. He seemed more like the historian type than anything. Ironic that Handmaiden is the new historian. @Metadigital: Aha! So you admit Revan's not dead! EDIT: Sorry, but I have one more question. On all my playthroughs so far, I've said Revan is LS. At the end, Kreia says he is fighting the True Sith. Does she say the same thing if he is a DS person? Is he still fighting the True Sith, or 'leading' the True Sith?

Thanks, GoA. You've saved me a lot of google trouble. :D But I could go for a female exile. The only thing about male exile I like better is that you have Visas and Brianna vs Atton and Disciple. And even that's more out of my dislike of the female exile romance options than my liking of male exile romance options. (although I do like Visas)

Very well. All I know is what I've seen on the web and on these forums. And everywhere I've looked it's stated that the LS male is the official canon. Even on that website I provided, it says that it's the official canon. The fact is I've seen it mentioned very often and in more than one source, such as forums and website profiles, so it's not like I'm making this up myself. Either all these websites are wrong, or the SW site simply didn't update the info on Revan. But if I see any more links or any official ones, I will definitely post them.

Yes, it does. (about Revan) Linky This is not the OFFICIAL star wars website, but the things in the article are taken from the official sources.

Well, I think you'll have a lot of fans who DON'T want to be taught by Disciple. BTW, what does Kreia say about him at the end? What is his supposed future? I've been meaning to ask that for a while.

Well, whether you like it or not, there is an official canon, and it states Revan was a LS male. The DS ending is considered the 'alternate' ending. If you don't like the thread, then don't whine about it. We're talking about something that actually has relevancy to the KOTOR series, so please don't spam it with your rantings.

No, the Korriban tomb visions were of the exile's past (mixed with some things that didn't happen). The cave was generating the images. I don't know where you got the idea of them being 'assassins', the game clearly says they were hallucinations. And remember what the Kreia hallucination said? "You've re-visited the dark moments of your past and now you must face the present."

Yeah? I still thought it was leagues ahead of the Anakin/Padme romance in Episode II. I felt that's where the movie fell apart. Especially since Anakin was such a whiner. "I don't like sand." " Worst. Line. Ever. And I thought of the two, the male Revan/Bastila romance was more powerful.

Some people really need to get a girlfriend.

There are some games where I think sound/music really helped to establish the mood. One good example is Halo 1+2. The music would change depending upon situation, and might change drastically if you were entering a new part of the game. I loved the soundtrack in both of them. Another earlier example is Diablo 1. The music in there was quite creepy, moreso than the sequal. Same with GTA: Vice City. The choice of music in there was great. :D Sound isn't a make-or-break thing for me, but it definitely helps, and kudos to any game with good music.

So? Still doesn't seem that important. Repeating models/textures is nothing new in either KOTORs.

Have to disagree. Disciple only becomes a Jedi for female exile, and not to mention he's disliked by the masses. He also hardly seems like one who'd be great for teaching the force. And I don't think it'd be a good idea for them to have your party members-turned-Jedi be the ones to rebuild the order. They hardly seem to be the types, esp considering they're noobs to the force. That's why I think Revan, the exile, and Bastila should be the ones to rebuild. Seems proper to me.

I prefer Revan as a male, although for the exile it doesn't matter to me that much. But I definitely agree LS exile should be canonical, esp. since as a DS player the entire Jedi order is destroyed, and you have no one to rebuild it.

Interesting. May I ask where you got this information, or if you have anything to back it up?

Good question, I've wondered that myself. From what I gathered from the game and reading these boards, the exile was one who created bonds with those around him. As a result, he ended up being much more sensitive to those around him. So when all those people died on Malachor V, the exile could feel it much more strongly than a typical Jedi. That, and unlike Obi-Wan, he was close to the planet when it happened. I think. Or maybe, as some have said, LA/Obsidian just weren't doing their homework.

So, anyone care to explain why this is so important?

Over-rated: Titanic (the movie) Under-rated: Hellboy NOT over-rated: LOTR movies. :D

Woah, Zulu! That's sweet! One thing I would love to see from any capable artist is a Revan/Bastila pic showing the two of them on the Star Forge after their big confronation and Bastila's redemption. Perhaps the two of them could be in a loving embrace? Perhaps even kissing? I have yet to see that from any artist, and I think it'd be great.

So isn't killing Revan closed enough for you? Death = closure. Boy, one minute you're a Revan fanboy, next you want no mention of the character! Make up your mind ... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Okay, let me make myself clear. I did like Revan's character a lot, and I don't want to see him killed. My problem in K2 was that it was supposed to be about the exile, not Revan. Revan had his shot in K1, and he did great in that. In K2, they kept on mentioning Revan over and over and over like he was some sort of god. Just because I liked my PC in K1 doesn't mean I want to constantly hear about him/her in the sequal. I mean, it got down to the point where they mentioned Revan 'studying' force bonds whenever you talked about your bond with Kreia. And one thing I think had to do with this was they tried to explain Revan's past and tie all these strategic, hidden motivations behind all his actions in K1. Which is okay, but I don't think it worked out really well. The game seemed to focus too much on Revan. That's where I think they went wrong, and that's where Revan felt less like my character. But no killing Revan. Killing Revan = bad. I'll be a very sad mutant if they do. :'(

A lot of it has to do simply with anti-American hypocrasy. Many people repeatedly condemn the U.S. for its actions, no matter what they be, while ruthlessly defending the U.N. and never once condemning it. With all the scandal they're facing (Oil-for-food, the workers in Africa), they've done a great job in undermining themselves.

Except the references to Revan in K2 weren't that brief. To me, it felt like he was brought up way too often in the game. Practically everywhere I went, I heard about Revan. RevanRevanRevanRevan... It felt like the game was more about Revan than you. Suddenly, I was as much preoccupied with Revan as I was my own PC. My only problem is that they mentioned him too dang much. In K3, I'm hoping the exile and Revan are only mentioned periodically, preferrably being some military leader in the fight against the True Sith that is brought up only in certain points. And of course, the game should provide closure on both of them. (At least Revan. The exile didn't appeal to me all that much, though I'm sure many fans liked him/her more.)

How can you say the force wanted the exile to fall to the darkside? And I'm not sure if saving the force was a 'triumph' of her. And I don't see how you can't say she didn't want to kill the force. That contradicts everything we saw in the game. Of course she wanted to kill the force. And it's not as if we didn't know the force could be deifed. It's happened before (Anakin Skywalker), and we have no way of knowing if the events of K2 'defied' the will of the force anyway. Another contradiction of Kreia is that she claims that they were all puppets of the force, yet went on to say that the choices Revan made were all his own. If the force wrote our destinies, how would we make our own choices? And you can't say Revan was intentionally 'defying' the force. Revan doesn't know the force's will, not even Kreia. Don't forget, Kreia was dillusional with the force, mostly due to her own failings and betrayal. And I'm not sure if Kreia was even correct that the exile survived without the force. Remember what the Jedi Masters said: "You weren't cut off from the force, you were merely deafened to it." Perhaps the force didn't abandon the exile, he just couldn't feel it because he had to cut off his connection or risk dying.

I for one, am ambivalent about the Gaza pullout. While some may look at it as a step toward peace, do you really think that's true? Don't forget, the objective of many of the Palestinian terrorists is the complete and utter destruction of Israel off the map. If it were up to them, Israel would not be there this day. These are the same people who PURPOSELY target civilians for the mere sake of killing. Groups like Hamas and Hezbollah aren't merely politically-motivated. Remember the Palestians dancing in the streets after 9/11? The parades and victory signs? Yeah. It's nice to know these people have so many sympathizers. If anything, I'm worried that the Gaza pullout will only make the region another haven for terrorists. Odd, also, that there doesn't seem to be a huge uproar over this. In many ways, the evacuation is a human rights violation.