Jediphile

I don't know... I always thought that was a bit fishy... I mean, it's *supposedly* the HK-50 unit that controls that remote, yet where did the HK-50s come from? Telos. And who do we just *happen* to run into on Telos as well? Bao-Dur... Something seems all too convenient there...

3) Kotor 2 was incomplete " 4) Peragus sucks! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> 1. It might have been if Bioware hadn't done the same basic plot in BG before. And as a plot twist, it's scarcely original. I was actually slightly disappointed, because it impressed me that they put so much background about Revan in there. Then I learned I was Revan, and it was just "oh well - so much for building a rich background rooted in history..." <_< 2. K1 robes K2 robes merely 3. As certainly as water being, 2+2=4, and me checking to see if the aforementioned is true if told so by Kreia... 4. Such a hard term... though fitting

So do I, though my hopes are not high... Still, I have to hand it to the writers of the show - the scene between William Devane (Heller) and Gregory Itzin (Logan) was great. Here you have two greatly underrated character-actors facing off in an atmosphere so thick you could cut it with a knife. It's nice to see they can give screentime to that, since they could never have put Jack in such a scene, as he just isn't the right sort of character for it - he's an agent, not a politician. Besides, I'm not quite sure Kiefer could have pulled that off as well as Devane and Itzin

That gives me flashbacks to Ghostbusters: Sigourney Weaver: "I want you inside me!" Bill Murray: "I can't. It sounds like there are at least two people in there already - it might be crowded..." Well, if we want female Sith, we need look no further than Lady Lumiya, who was never possessed by some ancient spirit or some such (that we know of...). And she is a much greater enemy of Luke Skywalker than Tavion could ever be.

You might think so, but that doesn't mean the rest of us have to agree, and I'm actually fairly certain that the developers (whoever they will be) won't either, since they'd like to sell K3 to more people than just those of us who played the last two games. If K3 is for the pc and Xbox 360, that becomes even more relevant, not less. I'd prefer to avoid the "uber-powergaming/munchkin"-hackfest, but that's just me - it would kill the progressive element of the game, where you watch your character rise to power...

Agreed. I'd prefer Revan to be DS in K3 so that if he was LS in K1, then there is something you can appeal and redeem him with, whereas if he turned DS, then he killed his friends and cannot come back to the light side. That way the choice of K1 remains, even if it means you have kill Revan yourself. If it was "just" some huge alien army, then they would have attacked a long time ago. As K2 reveals, they manipulated the Mandalorian Wars in order to cripple the republic. It worked, yet they still didn't attack. Why? Surely there's a reason for that. The most obvious problem among the Sith is probably their internal strife - everybody wants the throne, and so everybody is looking to stab everyone else in the back. Perhaps some sneaky Sith is using the fall of their empire to paint the republic as a shared enemy, so that he can gain the throne that way. That would mirror Naga Sadow's rise to power btw...

If the post gets to be too long, the quotation bit stops working. I advice less text or else to cut it into more posts. Yes and no... IMHO it's just Kreia sees it all from her own perspective. You know: "Many of the truths that we cling to, depend greatly on our own point of view." Hmm, that's actually rather profound. Good points. And I agree that Revan was sort of "raised" again with his companions as his "family". And Jolee is definitely the father, though Jolee would never admit that. Sorry, but that doesn't add up for me, since at the time Revan makes his LS/DS choice, he has no recollection of the threat of the true Sith - whether LS or DS, K2 consistently puts Revan's recollection of that threat a year after the events of K1, so that cannot be why he turned evil again. If you're right, it'll be interesting to see. But I think it's more likely we'll see a a game that ends in a great conflict where the true Sith try to conquer the republic. Just my two credits...

In jedi academy?!? The main villain of jedi academy was the ghost of Marka Ragnos, who certainly was never a woman. Speaking of KotOR, he was one of the dark lord of the Sith Empire, which are the ancestors of the "true" Sith...

Damn... Still, it seems all those who voted for Aaron Pierce won this round...

I advise you to NEVER post your email address openly on any forum or other place open to the public. Not because you can't trust those of us who answer here, but because spammers have their spambots searching the net for email addresses that they can then send spam-mail to. You really should delete the message I'm answering to here, so that it doesn't get worse than it probably already is (that's why I removed your address), as you're likely in for lots of spam now It was just "Smart!"

You don't know what they did on their way to that living space...

Oh yes - forgot about that one. Sorry, that's ages ago... Anyway, well spotted!

In the pc version, just press "Print Screen" (just besides F12) during play. That saves it out in your game folder in tga-format. No big revelation there, I fear...

It's in the game, but it always plays off-screen, so you never see anything. Basically you have to keep talking to Bastila and advancing the Bastila "quest". IIRC, she eventually says something about having feelings for Revan and finding herself looking at him when she doesn't mean to. You then tell her that you feel the same way, which will cause her to go into a long speech about how jedi are not supposed to have such feelings. I think the last bit is about telling her to give into her feelings just once, which makes you end up the cargo hold with Bastila regretting the whole thing... And that is where we got HK-47's undying comment from: 'Mockery: "Oh, master, I love you but I hate all you stand for, but I think we should go press our slimy, mucus-covered lips together in the cargo hold!"' :D

In that case you set Revan to DS (gender doesn't matter). The holocron will always show a DS Bastila, which requires that Revan was DS as well. If Revan was LS, then the holocron is always broken. Also, Bastila also appears as a hologram displayed by T3, if you build enough influence with him and makes most of the repairs/reprogramming on him... If Revan is male, that is. But if Revan was male, T3 always has a holorecording of Bastila, either as a concerned LS Bastila wondering what became of her beloved Revan, or as a DS Bastila who has decided to go and look for Revan, because has such a low opinion of the Sith that Revan left behind, and who were quarrelling among themselves for power.

As male, I preferred to charge up Visas' loading ramp I like the Handmaiden, but I think she sees too much of her lost father in the Exile for her to be a true romantic option. Besides, Visas is mysterious...

In a d20 system, it's easy to justify the need for a new character, since you always begin the game at level 1. Unless, that is, you want to play as Revan and begin at level 20 or as the Exile at level 30+... That's a far bigger no-no.

Well, I always play Revan as LS (except in one case, when I wanted to see the DS ending), but the question is more what is probable in K3. What I liked in K2 was that the question of Revan's motives was kept ambiguous and so for the player to decice for him- or herself. Why did Revan originally turn to the dark side? Was it bacause s/he was always powerhungry or was it to save the republic from the Mandalorians and then from the true Sith? The answer is never given in the game and so is entirely up to the player - whether Revan is a hero or a villain depends entirely on the perspective you choose for him/her. But if Revan is to make an appearance in K3 (and I agree that s/he should, and even as a major character), then how do you resolve that? If Revan was DS in K1, then how does s/he become LS in K3? Plotwise I find it much easier to make Revan DS in K3 regardless of previous choices because Kreia has already given us the answer: Kreia: "You were there at Malachor. Revan's choices were always his own. It was not teaching, or circumstance, or example. It was him. Is that what he was? Or was he always true to himself, no matter what personality he wore?And there is something that the Council may never understand. That perhaps Revan never fell. The difference between a fall and a sacrifice is sometimes difficult, but I feel that Revan understood that difference, more than anyone knew.The galaxy would have fallen if Revan had not gone to war. Perhaps he became the dark lord out of necessity, to prevent a greater evil. I do not believe the Jedi Council changed Revan, as they claimed. They merely stripped away the surface, and allowed the true self to emerge again - someone who was willing to wage war to save others." Again, whether Kreia was right depends on the player - though Revan does not appear in K2, s/he was still the player's character. And the easiest solution is to let Revan do precisely what Kreia suggests - if Revan was LS in K1, then s/he sacrificed him/herself to the DS to fight the true Sith, and if s/he was DS, then s/he simply wanted the power of the true Sith for him/herself. Seems to me that a big point of K2 was to create an enemy that both LS Revan and DS Revan would share. Agreed. We're in the middle of a story that needs closure. To make a K3 that is not a continuation would be like making "Empire Strikes Back" without "Return of the Jedi" following it. In fact, it would be worse, since K2 was slashed horribly by all the cut content, though we'll yet see that restored, no thanks to Lucasarts... " A shame that it will linger in limbo in so, since LA is unlikely to accept the restored content as canon, even if it was originally intended to be in the game This isn't a problem at all. In fact, I'd say that has been planned ever since they began working on K2. Kreia's mentioning of the "true" Sith (who would be the descendants of the fallen Sith Empire ruled by dark lords such as Marka Ragnos, Naga Sadow, and Ludo Kressh a millennium earlier). I guess the devs/writers needed an enemy that both DS Revan and LS Revan would want to fight, and the descendants of the ancient Sith were conveniently unused since the fall of their empire a millennium earlier. I fully expect that we'll be seeing worlds like Khar Shian, Thule, and almost certainly Ziost.

True, Sleheyron was dropped before they did much development on it, so it would be pretty difficult to restore. You can read Bioware's David Gaider talking about it here.

No. The Sith Bunny says no Death Stars in K3!

Oooh, now build 0.6b6. Cool!

Yes, but the sorry state of K2 and the sudden lay-offs toward the end of its production at Lucasarts halted the development of a K3, and it has been in limbo ever since. At least as far as we know. Obsidian *has* expressed interest to do it, but the decision lies with Lucasarts, and they either haven't decided or else don't want to tell just yet. So there we are... Patience - for the jedi it is time to eat as well... More open ended?!? How much more open ended than K2 can a game being, seeing as how it had hardly any ending at all... All just speculation. We all follow the rumors pretty closely here, and though some have expressed a desire for that sort of thing, it's still just some fanboys' wet dreams and nothing more. There are certainly those here, who do not want that, and in truth I think it's unlikely to happen, since KotOR is based on d20 Star Wars tabletop RPG, which is inescapably turn-based. Besides, K1 and K2 were both a success with turn-based combat, so why mess with it? That sort of choice usually just cost more of the fans that it wins in new customers.

Since the M4-78 group called for ideas to include, I've been giving it some thought. I'm sorry to say that I haven't really had any true epiphanies, however, so instead I've tried to analyze the situation. I'll outline the major points here in the hope that it might spark some ideas among other people. Basically I feel that no matter what is written for the mod, it should play on the strengths and weaknesses that are unique to M4-78 when compared to the other worlds of K2. It seems to me that there are basically two points to consider. 1. There are a number of conditions that must be met for any human(oid) to M4-78 that are not present, since the droids do not need them. A number of plots could be based on that premise. The most obvious one is the radiation itself, which is lethal to human life, but that's already central to the plot. But there are other needs for humanoids that droids do not share, such as air, temperature, water and food, etc. Large sections of M4-78 might be inaccessible to humans (and so the Exile) until air and tolerable temperatures have been restored to those areas, for example. 2. The droids themselves have some weaknesses that human(oid)s do not, and so only a living being might be able to solve them. The most obvious of these seems to be that the droids are bound by their programming, so there is conflicting commands among the droids, it would take a human(oid) to reprogram one or more of them to resolve the situation. Droids are also dependent on electricity and repair/maintenance. They might be able to do some of that themselves, though. However, droids have other limitations. They have no feelings and no imagination, for example. The latter means that they are unable to use creative or innovative thinking as a solution to problems that they might face. They could not design new technology, nor could they find a new solution to a problem that is new to them or not covered by their programming. These two aspects can be combined to create a number of problems that only the pc can overcome on M4-78. For example, an impending natural disaster like an approaching comet, an earthquake, or a volcanic eruption might not be something that is covered by the droids' programming (and especially not after the M4-78 computer was shut down), and so must be dealt with by the player. Or the generator or whatever powers the droids on M4-78 with electricity could be faulty for some reason (perhaps due to the confrontation between the jedi and the sith) and a critical part of it has broken beyond repair without any replacement. Since the droids cannot built a new one and cannot think of a alternative, it again falls to the player to think of another solution in the spirit of "if you need a hammer and don't have one, use a pipe"...

Frankly, I'd much rather have Moore and his crew decide what happens on the show than any of us gamers, because I think they are far better writers. Some of the stuff these guys have done in the past has been really underrated. As for Living Greyhawk, you have to remember that while it was made into a player-controlled campaign, it virtually killed the setting as far as writing new material was concerned. Yes, you had great freedom to expand Greyhawk after that as a player, but as far as new supplements and novels and such were concerned, it was basically a dead world from that point on. That cannot happen to BSG.

The answer to that question seems entirely too obvious...