Jediphile

Killing any of the masters will earn you the DS ending, it seems. If you do not kill them, then your alignment decides the LS or DS ending. On Onderon, you will have to side with Talia early on to get the LS choice for that world, though you can reverse it the first time you talk briefly to Kavar (when you're interrupted by Tobin and his guards). I actually "took care" of the captains loyal to Talia (earning a few DS points), and yet managed to tell Tobin that I would never side with him and Vaklu. Then I got the LS outcome for Onderon.

Just for the record, Boba wasn't killed in RotJ, so we don't know if it's a reference to him. That's true even if you discount the novels and comics as "stupid EU non-canon", since Boba makes an appearance in Jedi Academy. If we take the EU into account, Boba isn't the last Mandalorian at all, since Fenn Shysa is there and even becomes Mandalore later...

I don't care what the fanboys think - Revan is not immortal. Malak betrayed him and he had to be saved by the jedi for crying out loud. What could be more humiliating for a Sith lord? Besides, we don't even know if Palpatine was lying or exaggerating about the alleged powers of Darth Plagueis.

Are those femme fatales? I think the definition is by far the most relevant, which rules most of the suggestions out. Bastila might count, but only for a DSM Revan, and even then I'd doubt it, since Revan makes a choice rather being charmed into anything. Kreia is certainly manipulative and leads people to doom, but she can scarcely be said to use her "great seductive charm" to entice men (eeek - I don't even want that image in my head...) Sure, Kreia is Lady Macbeth or a female Ahab, but not a femme fatale. I don't think the rest let anyone astray at all...

Then who died in Luke's arms? Yes

I see dead topics... :ph34r:

Let me get this straight, you actually think she was on a fourth ship? I mean, we have: 1. The Harbinger 2. Ebon Hawk 3. The sith warship and then we also have 4. Kreia's ship ?? It's conjecture, but it could be. I mean, I'm not disputing or questioning your theory, I just want to be sure I understand it correctly. They don't know, and Kreia is right to conclude that they act out of pure fear. It's precisely because they seek to just attack what they don't understand because they see it as a threat rather than attempt to understand and accept it, and then perhaps resolve it somehow, that she becomes so angry with them. Kreia: "He has brought truth, and you condemn it? The arrogance!" I actually agree with Kreia there. She overreacts completely, but that doesn't mean that she is not right to point out their arrogance. But I do think the Exile is a leech/siphon, since he usurps the force of others through the force bonds he creates with them. But that's not why the masters decide to cut him off from the force. They are far more afraid of his connection to the "new sith", which means Nihilus, but they don't know that. Note what they say: "When we felt Katarr die, there is something we felt, something we'd felt once before. An echo in the Force.We'd felt it before when you stood before us. Whatever this threat, whatever this hunger is, it is something tied to you, something you have experienced directly. This echo travels in the places where death has walked, where planets have died. Massacres fuel its power, the death of life fuels it." And a little later: "The Sith are a threat, it is true. But the threat they present... it is tied to you in some way. The echo we have felt on the worlds we have walked - we have encountered it only once before, when you stood before us at your trial.We believe that somehow, you are creating this - or that the Sith have learned this technique from you." That's what the masters fear, not merely that the Exile can use force powers through his bonds with others.

:"> You're right. It doesn't. Short enough?

That was so easy it was almost redundant. Is it even possible to fail it? I certainly never have... Basically just fire like crazy for the first few seconds and half the enemy fighters will be gone already. Then you get to choose whether the rest is a milk run or a cake walk... :cool:

I think that will happen yet... And it will be cool if it does...

The entire opening of the game has long bugged me. Just how did Kreia get aboard the Ebon Hawk? We know that T3 controls the Ebon Hawk, since he locked the navi-computer as per Revan's orders, we know that T3 went with Revan to the unknown regions and then went back (Carth tells the LS Exile this after the fight with Nihilus), and we know that T3 sought the Exile out because Bastila (or Carth) commanded him to do so. Kreia did not, however, go to the unknown regions. She says so herself at the end. "If he had asked... would I have gone? I do not know." So just how did she end up on the Ebon Hawk? I don't know. I half suspect that she was on the sith war ship using her camouflage and then snuck onto the Ebon Hawk... I think so. They're old war buddies, and those bonds are pretty tight, as I'm certain any war veteran will confirm. Not really. I've explained it on these boards before, but I'll open up a can of worms if I mention it here, I fear. If you're interested, take at look towards the end of page 1 in this topic. And this is where i get lost. my intent is not to be a pain, but aren't you contradicting yourself in the first vs. second paragraphs? Exile isn't an ominiscient being, her/him cutting her/his self off from the Force defies what should have happened. Gotcha up to there. So Exile defies the will of the Force by doing what only an ominiscient being could do, proving the Force has a will? That would only apply if the will of the Force was for Exile not to succumb to the echoes and iminent fall to the DS by instead becoming a wound in the Force... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I do hope that I'm not contradicting myself, but then I can scarcely judge that myself. Anway, I guess the point I've failed to make is that while the Exile did this, he has no idea that he did it. The Exile is, as per Vandar's comments, an average jedi, but he has a uniquely powerful ability that no other jedi has. Only he is completely oblivious to it himself. When he rejects the will of the force, he doesn't do so as a conscious choice, but as a pure act of instinct, just as you would say "ouch" if you were stuck by something or would quickly remove your hand on instinct if you accidentally put it on the hot stove. Yes. That's how I see it.

You mean, your opening statement didn't clear enough up? I think you, The Architect, and myself are all on the same page here... Yes, but note that the ghostly version of the Exile is always DS. I've played that part several times, and it's always a DS version of the Exile standing there. Always. Now, if you play Exile as LS as I do, then s/he was never DS, since it was prevent precisely that fate that s/he denied the force in the first place. So where does that DS mastery bit come from? Yes, but going through that bit again and paying close attention to ghost-Kreia as opposed to the real Kreia. The latter tells you afterwards that you faced visions of the past, but ghost-Kreia mentions the present and the future as well. And I tend to believe even the ghost of Kreia over Kreia herself... You sure you want an answer to that? :cool: Revan was long-sighted, yes, but I don't think s/he had much patience. Revan is not the type to wait around for things to turn out as s/he wants them to. Revan is long-sighted, but s/he will make things go the way s/he intends them to if they don't by themselves. Also, while I agree that Revan corrupted the jedi as a means to create an army to fight the true Sith, it is not clear at which point s/he embraced that plan. I doubt it was before Revan learned of the true Sith on Malachor V. It could have been before, and I have defended that position in the past, but I've changed my view on it a little. I do think Revan want to war with the Mandalorians simply to save the innocent (and incidentally the Republic), assuming LS Revan that is, and then only found out about the true Sith later in the war. Anyway, it probably doesn't matter so much... Carth should be in there for a LS Revan, yes. I'm not sure I want him as a companion, though, since that doesn't make much sense. In my own plot, Carth would be essential to redeeming the fallen LSF Revan-turned-DS. And naturally Carth should be commanding the republic forces during a final confrontation with the true Sith. If Revan was LS, that is, otherwise Cede.

[shudder] ...well, at least ESB is winning, as it should be.

Oh god no, not that. That was lame. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It was just as lame, if not more so, in the original version, I fear... So to me the change was a non-factor...

There actually can be a good reason for that, even though I would sort of have preferred they kept Sebastian Shaw. In short, Anakin returned to who he was before he fell to the dark side. And his most recent LS self was indeed that played by Hayden Christensen, since he was consistently Vader and not Anakin from that point on and until Luke redeemed him when he died. Yoda and Obi-Wan, however, never fell to the dark side, so their force-ghost selfs would be unchanged from who and what they were when they died.

Un-bunch your tighty whities, don't call your mom to yell at me, stop flipping out and take your ritalin. If you took it personally, thats your problem, dont get a hemorrhoid. Those who complain that good editing decisions and added scenes ruined the original films are the ones who should be ashamed. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oh, come on. How can you tell people they should be ashamed and then expect them not to be insulted? If you disagree with them, then fine. That's fair enough. But then state your position and explain your reasons for it. Your opinion is no better than mine or Wild Storm's, or anyone else's. If you make a potentially inflamatory comment, then you can expect nothing else. Opinions welcome. Trolling, no thank you - we're all stocked up here... Nobody is getting ticked off because you voiced your opinion. It was the suggestion that he should be ashamed that did that. And no, I don't agree with you that all the changes were for the best. There are some really annoying additions in ANH with lots of stupid robots and so just as Luke and Ben enter Mos Eisley. Did they hurt the film? No. Did they enhance the experience? No. They just made it longer, which isn't an achievement in itself. And see my previous post for why the Greedo change was inexcusable. Oh, and on the subject of Greedo, check this site

In both cases (non-fluidic combat and lack of dismemberment) you can blame the d20 RPG system that KotOR was based on. It's basically a revision of the D&D 3e system, which I also hate with a passion (despite being an old AD&D GM myself, or perhaps because of it...). I've played d20 Star Wars PnP, but I really did prefer the old d6 system, and there are certainly game systems out there that are far better than d20. But while that is true, I really *don't* want a Jedi Academy-ish realtime combat system. EVER! I want the outcome of the battle to depend on the skill of the character I'm playing, not on how well I press buttons. Because I suck at pressing those buttons, which is probably a major reason why I prefer CRPGs to most other game types. But I'm all for dropping d20 entirely, and I certainly never played KotOR because it used the system. On contrary, it was far more because I thought the plots were interesting in spite of being d20-based. If they can replace the system with something that is more fluid without turning real-time, then I'm all for it.

Does that make sense? It is so hard for me to tell anymore :D <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It would make sense, except for the last bit where you quote Kreia, but leave a bit out. The full quote is: Kreia: "The Mandalorian Wars were a series of massacres that masked another war, a war of conversion.Culminating a final atrocity that no Jedi could walk away from... save one." That last bit is fairly important. Because it suggests that the corruption of the jedi is not merely an inescapable consequence of the events on Malachor V. The Exile is not some omniscient being who can defy the laws of physics, so how did s/he resist the corruption that befall all other jedi? How is it possible that the Exile did not fall to the dark side, if that is the natural and inevitable consequence of what happened? The only explanation I can see is that his/her ability to do so is the very proof of the will of the force that Kreia is talking about. None of the other jedi could resist that will, but the Exile did. S/he defied the destiny that was cast upon him/her and denied the will of the force. Yes, except that changed when he began using the force again. That's when he became a leech/siphon. Well, is the consequence of his choice a question of what his own morality bids him to do? Clearly the Exile did not want to fall to the dark side, but what I found intersting was that he actually had to deny and even wound the force in order to prevent that from happening.

Ah, but the Exile is not feeling the Force solely through Kreia but through Atton, Mira, Bao, Mical/Handmaiden, Visas and (like I said before) life in general, too. Remember Atton was there from the beginning as well. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> But you go on without them remember? And no mentioning the extra female ending. Adding that would have been stupid since the Exile was to be alone, just like Revan. If they did use that though I'm sure your next siphon would be on Revan. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You might think so, but there seems to be a lot going on at the end of K2 that the Exile is unaware of. For example, a big reason for his search for the jedi is the bond with Kreia, which can harm them both and even kill one if the other dies. Yet Kreia dies at the end, and the Exile is fine. Why? There is more going on, and I have my suspicions about it... Suffice it to say that I think the Exile restored his own connection to the force...

I have no doubts here. "No Luke, *I* am your father!" for the win

Nope. Atton will fight Sion and then that will determine his final fate (if it's equal or above). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That seems to depend on whether the female Exile is LS or DS. I think the Atton vs. Disciple fight only occurs, if the female Exile is DS and has more influence with Disciple than Atton. A similar fight exists for the male DS Exile, where Handmaiden tries to kill Visas. Not sure, but the Atton vs. Sion battle may only be a LSF option.

I don't, because it's unresolved as it is now.

Ah, but that's just what they want you to think... Old Bao-Dur is a crafty old manipulator, and the whole thing is just a little too convenient. Besides, you can't really rule out that there is something more going on here, can you? :ph34r:

"I'd love to know what's going on in that shifty mind of yours" <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sometimes so would I... Not sure if this is one of them, though