Jediphile

Zez-Kai Ell. It's a close call between him and Vash, since she was far more understanding than they others when the Exile was cast out by the council. But I choose Zez-Kai Ell because he alone acknowledges that the masters and their teachings are flawed and that they should share the responsibility for that happened instead of just blaming Revan, Malak, the Exile, and everybody else for everything. And I can't believe anybody voted for Vrook..

Thanks. And you're right that I dont' add a lot of details in places. In some parts that is due to the size the description of the plot would otherwise have, since I know lots of people are put off by lot posts, and I can write very, very long posts. My plot was spread out over five posts that were all very long. But yes, there should obviously be times where Kreia and Malak are mentioned. The masters of K2 should be mentioned, as the Exile's condition is touched upon. But those were the sort of details that can always be added later. Anyway, glad you liked it.

Cripes! Is that Krypto?? Always did like a dog named after the planet he was from... I guess we'll be hearing about "Eartho" next... "

Sadly true, though I do think KotOR2 was an extreme example - Lucasarts has taken a lot of flak over its decision to rush the game for the christmas release and then doing nothing to fix the problem. I think they took a few bruises and learned the lesson the hard way. And yet, they still didn't clean up the mess and fix the problem, did they? Actually, I like to think I remain tolerable But yes, the golden age of computer gaming is definitely over. They may have been crap by today's standards, but what they lacked in presentation they certainly had in originality, which is also sadly lakcing today.

Whether you like it or not LS Revan is the cannonical ending. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Uhm, yes... your point being?

What do mean the fights had no point to them????? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Lots of "old-timers" seem to really hate the prequels. Not sure why. And I'm an old-timer myself. Actually, I rather liked that. It was certainly better than TPM (well, maybe not the lightsaber duel...) That's what Obi-Wan says himself, but I'm not so sure that's true. I think Obi-Wan just blames himself, because it gives him some form of control over the situation. Anyway, I don't agree with him. It was Anakin's choice, and that is not Obi-Wan's responsibility. Yes, I loved that battle too. I always though that the Obi-Wan vs. Darth Maul fight was the wildest thing I ever saw and that they would never top that. But when I saw Obi-Wan vs. Anakin, I thought, "holy smokes!!" :cool:

I already wrote his return... And he and Revan did not fight. Well, at least not until very late in the game... " <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I know it's off-topic but could I perhaps get links to these? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> To my own plot, sure. Just be aware of the length - you have been warned

So what you're saying is that Zayne is Zayne? Or is Zayne just sane...

Right where you find a faulty HK-50 droid, right? Yes, they are both (as well as others) very well known, and no, you cannot open them. They're cut content - parts of the game that was unfinished at the time the game was released, and I fear that there is a lot of cut content. If not sooner, you will become very much aware of that toward the end of the game. But not to worry - a group of modders are working to restore the lost material so that it can be played, at least on the pc version. If you want to read about it, you should visit their site, but be warned of spoilers - if you haven't completed the game once yet, then it might be best to stay away until you have.

Short version: "He's too dangerous to be left alive!!" Long version: I guess I just worry that people will want to capture Revan because they don't like the idea of killing an old favorite character, but my position is that if Revan is evil, then you really should have no choice - he's a powerful force for evil, and he will only cause trouble in the long run. So in the LS version, you must kill DS Revan to save the republic, while in the DS version, you have to kill DS Revan because he's too much of a threat to your own power. I want Revan's LS/DS choice to mean something, and if you can just capture him, then you take that away, because it's another way of saying "I'll capture him now so that I can redeem him later" IMHO. That's just running from the sort of hard choice that Revan was prepared to accept. So bite the bullet and kill him off once and for all.

Well, Anakin wiped the floor with Dooku, and then Anakin was defeated by Obi-Wan, so... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Anakin was never beaten by Oafy Wan. Darth Vader wasn't beaten by him. Vader defeated himself. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Why do I get flashes of the black knight cursing King Arthur now...

Well, my plot had you gathering allies along the way and ending up finding both the Exile and later Revan. However, they were both DS because they began a civil war among the true Sith, and you would have to either redeem them (if they were LS in the previous games) or else to kill them. If Revan is DS, then he has succeeded and become the new dark lord of the true Sith, and you must destroy him. The LS version had you redeem both Revan and Exile, so they could join your own ranks, and in the final battle you would then split your party in a way similar to how you did in K2 on Onderon and Dxun, only it would be split in three with Revan, the Exile, and the new character each leading a team in the final battle to save the republic from the true Sith when they made a preemptive attack on Coruscant itself.

I was thinking how GOTO or HK-47 might see M4-78 as a paradise for their own reasons. For GOTO, there are no illogical humanoids left to do stupid, illogical things that interfere with his plans to "save" the galaxy. He might want to reprogram the M4-78 to take control of the planet and run it according to his own interests, much as he tried to do with the droids on Nar Shaddaa. That could be very HAL (from 2001) or even a bit like the tabletop RPG Paranoia :D HK-47 might like it because there are no meatbags pressing their mucus-covered lips against anything, and he could build an entire army to send against erring meatbags and the "sub-standard" copies of himself that are roaming the galaxy with impunity. Hmmm, maybe it makes more sense for GOTO to try something like this. There is nothing like this in the cut stuff, is there?

NOOOOOOOOOOoooooooo..... !!!

No doubt. And I also agree with the Architect and Jediphile that DS Revan shouldn't be redeemable. Another thing I am just thinking about right now is that both LS and DS Revan could have one common goal in their mind which is to wipe out the True Sith Empire. Would there be any possibility that whatever Revans alignment is, the outcome would essentially be the same? I don't know one so far but perhaps someone did. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It seems to me that this was always a secret goal in K2. I mean, K1 ends with very different endings. Either Revan saves the republic, saves the jedi order, saves the galaxy as we know it (again...), and generally defeats evil. Or he destroys the last defenses of the republic, kills all his enemies, seizes ultimate power, and claims the title of dark lord once and for all. We may not seem him conquer the republic, but it scarcely matters, since none can stand in his way now. But since K1 was a self-contained game with no succeeding history to consider, this doesn't matter. Only then something happened. K1 was a huge success. So much so that a sequel became inevitable. Which that the writers now have a problem, because how do you reconcile those *very* different endings of K1 in a way that makes any kind of sense? Well, the only way you can do that is to 'retcon' things a bit... You actually didn't *SEE* DS Revan conquer the republic in the ending of K1, so you can make new assumptions there. Perhaps evil Revan didn't conquer the galaxy. But that still doesn't solve the whole problem - how do you reconcile the very different Revans (LS or DS) of K1? After all, write a game that approaches both possibilities to a massive degree will make it a programming nightmare... So what's the solution? Well, you create a common enemy that both LS and DS Revan would both have to fight for various reasons. Enter the true Sith...

Yeah, I hear you... If only we could find our way away from it also...

Hmmm,

Well, Anakin wiped the floor with Dooku, and then Anakin was defeated by Obi-Wan, so...

Agreed for ANH and ESB, but not RotJ, which was a fairly weak and repetitive plot. Sure, it has nice space battles and manages to deliver an enticing and spectacular finale, but pretty much everything in the plot, we'd already seen in the previous two movies.

No, because while Revan will be alone in that fight, the new character will not, and even Revan can be overmatched when faced with at least three jedi knights, especially if Bastila is present to use their connection against Revan. Gee, I wish... My bad I think Revan did not so much lose his mind (after K1, I mean) as he did his heart. The DS Revan just couldn't trust anyone not to betray him, and LS Revan couldn't bear to lead yet more friends into ruin. Over the course of K1's events, Revan had to face all the evil he had done before. That either destroyed the last bit of humanity and trust in others left in him (DS) or else wore so heavily on his conscience that it destroyed the last bit of resolve he had left in him (LS). Either way, he was not going to trust/risk others in his quest again, not unless they were sith whom he could use and sacrifice in the firm knowledge that they would just the same themselves. Well, from Wookieepedia's "timeline" (always recommended): * 3,996 BBY o The Great Sith War. Fallen Jedi Ulic Qel-Droma and Exar Kun lead a war against the Republic, but are defeated by the Republic and light side Jedi. * 3,976 BBY o The Mandalorian Neo-Crusaders begin to conquer worlds in the Outer Rim. The Jedi Council forbids involvement by the Jedi until the problem has been assessed. * 3,963 BBY o The Mandalorian Wars begin. The Jedi Revan and Malak defy the Jedi Council and lead the Republic forces against the invaders. * 3,960 BBY o The Mandalorian Wars end. A Jedi serving Revan as general, later called the Exile, willfully severs all ties to the Force to end the pain caused by the thousands of deaths at the Battle of Malachor V. Revan and Malak disappear. The Exile is called to Coruscant to answer for defying the Jedi Council, and is banished upon the Council learning of the general's willful abandonment of the Force. * 3,959 BBY o Revan and Malak, who have been seduced by the Dark Side, declare war on the Republic. Only the Battle Meditation of Bastila Shan staves off certain defeat. * 3,956 BBY o The Jedi Civil War concludes with the redemption of Revan, the death of Malak, and the destruction of the Star Forge. * 3,955 BBY o Revan disappears into the Unknown Regions to destroy the ancient Sith Empire. * 3,951 BBY o The Exile is discovered aboard the Ebon Hawk, Revan's ship, by Darth Traya, a Sith Lord trying to kill the Force by manipulating the life-threatening echoes caused by the Exile's willing abandonment of it. The Exile reestablishes connection to the Force, then kills Darth Traya, Darth Nihilus, and Darth Sion, who have spent the last five years murdering Jedi. End of the Old Sith Wars. * c. 3,950 BBY o The Exile departs to the Unknown Regions to find Revan, and the Jedi Order is rebuilt by the surviving Jedi.

Why not?

I know those comic books, but those masters have nothing to do with the masters we see in K1 or K2. And the thought of Zayne being Nihilus is just scary Please no - I'd loose the last bit of awe I have for Nihilus!

Click here for your answer...

There are far more than that. As for my own, I already posted it on these boards some time ago, though I sort of regretted it, since I'm now almost certain be disappointed by whathever K3 will turn out to be... But if you want to see it, I suppose there is little point in keeping it secret, since you can easily find it be looking through old parts of the K3 suggestions topic. It's pretty long, though, but you can find the links to it all here. I agree to a point. Revan's mistake was the same Luke made in the Dark Empire comic books - he decided that he had to it all himself. But as Luke realises at the end of those books, the way of the jedi is not a solitary path, and that is precisely where Revan went wrong. The jedi find their strength in their unity, trust and loyalty. Revan abandoned all those. But I don't agree that Revan knew anything about the true Sith when he entered the Mandalorian Wars. I think it was only at the Trayus Academy on Malachor V that Revan realised the danger they presented. And to me that is precisely why he never told Malak about the true Sith, as he otherwise would have before they both fell to the dark side - as an LS'er he would have told his good friend, but as a dark lord, he kept all his secrets and plans for conquest to himself. At that point Malak was no longer a friend - he as an apprentice at best and a servant or soldier to carry out Revan's bidding when needed. Malak became just another pawn that could be sacrificed if the need ever arose, so he did not need to know what Revan was planning.