Volourn

"How does it make sense that you can allocate leveling points wherever you want them, regardless of how you obtained that XP? Why can you get better at thieving skills by killing beetles?" Who says I think that makes sense? Who says my ideal game would do that? You are using the wrong argument, DUDE. "No. You got 1500xp for getting through the beetles and spiders." No. You got 1500xp for entering a cave. You MIGHT make a case for the spiders because they are blocking the cave entrance. But, the beetles don't block the cave entrance.

" It seems to be very common in modern games, though. For some reason." No more common than older games. For some reason. :rollseyes:

They are my objective so DEAL WITH IT. Yeah, your objective is to run to a cave and gain 1500xp. LMAO "By that logic, why would you gain exp for any beetle but the very first one you killed? Beating a second one doesn't prove anything either then." Look at that. Another spaghetti argument.

"So out of curiosity, what if beetles respawn? How that would affect your guys' argument about them needing exp reward? Affect only first time? :p" Well, you beat the beetles once. Beating them a second time doesn't prove anything nor should your characetrs really leanr anything new for doing so. That's if you use respawn at all. Another way do it is if you find the beetle 'hive' (yeah I know beetles don't really have hives ala bees but you get it ) and defeat/disperce the beetles there you should xp for making the area safer. You can even do it without fighting. \The IE games were all hand placed xp.

Dwarven Fighter/Cleric

":This thread is like a textbook case for change aversion. Let me grab my crystal ball and predict after a full playthrough the overwhelming majority of the "no combat xp" complainers will completely forget their grievance." L0L I'm often a huge advocate for change when the change is logical. Anyways, watching the video again and watching closely. I saw: a) 1500xp for enterting ogre cave b) 3000xp for killing ogre (I presume you get this whether you kill him or deal with him some other way) and c) concluding the quest at the quest giver - couldn't see how much though. So you get 1500xp for entering a cave but nothing for beetles. I don't mind the cave xp because that's a good nod for the spider battle outside. Again, I'll make this clear. It's not about combat xp. It's about the arbitrary chocies for what's worth xp and what's not. I also don't beleiev this is a 'game ruiner'. In the end, no matter how much xp you get or how you get it, the game will (if developed right) will be balanced for whatever. I just want LOGIC. And, there is no logic on why ogre is worth xp but beetles aren't other than he's part of some silly quest so the PC is a slave.

Ideally, I'd prefer resting in safe areas. Infact, 'low levels' should have to find a trainer. That said, in a game like this? Anywhere, as long as you don't get max health /spells/abilities back on level up like certain games. That's lame.

I was being subtle? My bad. Besdies, I've been insulted quite a bit in this thread. Not a big deal. It's all harmless. Have some fun, drink a little juice, pump yourself up for the game, and take it seriously but don't life so seriously.

Dwarven Fighter/Cleric

Well, watching the video more closely. You get 1500xp for just entering the ogre cave then 3000xp for killing (and I presume you get that if you deal with him in another way) but nothing for the beetles or spiders. I cna udnerstand spiders because they a) block the cave entrance and tb)he way where the ogre is in the cave but why shouldn't overcoming the beetles get you some xp reward. Why is the ogre worth 3k (4.5k actually+ whatever you get for turning in the ogre head) but the beetles nothing. LMAO

Hey, this is a hardcore game making it hardcore business which leads to hardcore debates.

So.. my question after all this hasn't been answered. Why is the ogre deemed worthy of xp for completing that objective but not successfully dealing with the beetles (through killing or other method? What makes the ogre so special? Extremely arbitrally and illogical. This question has NOTHING to do with KILL XP vs NON KILL XP. You should be able to get xp with delaing with the beetles even through non violence. ie. A druid can use a charm insect/animal spell to convince the beetles to leave the area and find another place to hunt or maybe just freak the beetles out that someone actually talk to them. <>

" the 'newer' generation of gamer, this game is not for." Totally disagree. Comments like this not only do a disservice to the 'modern gamer' it also does a disservice to the game. Comments like it only serve for a self pat of 'i'm so kewl i love hardcore games i'm so special and unique because i love games because most don't so i'm one ofthe in crowd and i don't want anyone else to feel special like me'. It's garbage, it's asanine, it's illogical, it's evil, it's ignorant, and it's stupid. Every single person who is looking forward to this game were a newbie once but somehow managed to start liking games. People need to get over themselves.

"Why is exp for killing monsters the only motive for doing it." I certainly didn't claim it was the 'only' motive. In fact, it's probably relatively low on my list of 'motives'. It's not even about 'killing'.It's just silly to me that the ogre is worth xp but not the beetles. IT. IS. ILLOGICAL. Is ph@t lewt like your example the only reason why you explore?

I know you are trolling for fun. Spaghetti is fun. So, it fits.

More GOGish topic: GOG is a money sink. I now have 53 games on it including about half a dozen in the past few weeks and 3 today. Most of whcih I'll never complete and some I even have hard copies of. L0L But, $5 for old/relatively new games is ahrd to pass up. LMAO

Another spaghetti argument.

"If you're only exploring and fighting for XP, then you're not really exploring or fighting, are you? You are just performing actions necessary for the acquisition of XP. If you like the fighting, you'll continue to like fighting, XP has no impact on that." No xp or level up for anything. Get nuttin for the ogre either. Right? Your logic is foolish. Again, why is the ogre worthy of xp but not the beetles? They are both 'objectives' and 'challenges' to overcome so they both should give you xp. Oh yeah, I forgot. Some npc tells you to deal with ogre so in order to get xp one must be a slave and work for npcs only because. L A M E Player should get xp for over coming challenges/objectives no matter how they do it. PERIOD.

"Where's our XP for "beating the challenge" of chopping all the trees in the forest down? Those trees aren't going to chop themselves down, and your character would certainly gain a lot of experience from swinging an axe so much." L0L Spaghetti argument is spaghetti argument. try again, little fishy. "My prediction: The combination of tough combat (with some guaranteed long-term damage) and no kill XP will mean that a lot of players will actively avoid unnecessary combat (we've already seen this in the latest demos, straight walk to the ogre). FINALLY, we're going to see some reason in the so-called adventurers' behavior, because nobody in her right mind would want to risk her life constantly without a good reason. And "those beetles were standing there in the woods, so let's kill them" is not a good reason. In pen-and-paper gaming, adventurers avoid unnecessary combat because: 1. There is no "Load game" option, the risks are unavoidable. 2. The GM can throw all kinds of **** at the party at any time, in any encounter, you don't have the meta knowledge of "there are only 3 beetles here, nothing more". So if you have the option to engage or not, you gauge the perceived risks versus the possible rewards. These changes will force a similar risk-reward assessing attitude in Eternity, which is, again, very welcome by me." Wrong in so many ways but right maybe once or twice.

'the quest'? The beetles aren't part of the ogre quest...

For me, this entire debate hasn't even been about 'xp per kill'. It's about why aren't the beetles worthy of being 'objective based'. The objective of defeating their challenge in some way (doesn't ahve to be by killing!). It's not about getting 25 xp per beetle (or whatever). But, being rewarded for overcoming the challenge.

"There's always loot the player can get. The player will not get said loot by avoiding the beetles." The ogre likely has more loot than the beetles. And, I did sayn';y reward for 'killing' the beetles but 'beating the challenge' of the beetles. So, answer still not found.

I would argue (outside of certain specific features like the lame party wipe nonsense) that it is 'smartened up'. ie. Warriors can do more than lamely swing their weapon once or twice per round. L0L

"Well, we have at least two users that advocate the killing of women, so you're at a good start." Only two? Plenty more advocate for the killing of men so... *shrug*

Yeah, DA is just as challenging as BG or BG2. Thoguh, I find most games not super hard anyways. *shrug* But, hard doesn't = non csual anyways. Plenty of so called old skool 'hardcore' games were really really easy. *shrug*