Volourn

Man. I do not want to down this road. I don't want to be banned. This is my final post about mr. Sawyer. He's an Obsidian employee. He works on games they ask him to. Simple as that. I do stuff at work too that I'd rather not be doing but ti's my job so I do it. As I'm sure plenty of people do. That's it. Back on xp topic: I still have yet to get an answer why people think it's okay to get experience for helping a little girl find her dolly but not for defeating the dragon who ambushes you on the road? <> It's a simple question. Please answer.

Yeah she was and she got punished for it with some smutty cartoons. It's too bad, for me, she didn't work on actual games I want to play.

I'd rather not get too far into anti Sawyer because I don't hate him but I know he hates me since he's banned me before and has basically told me to shut up. L0L read the Codex PE threads for an exact quote. I'm just going to stick on the topic of xp in this thread so I don't get banned. I still have yet to get an answer why people think it's okay to get experience for helping a little girl find her dolly but not for defeating the dragon who ambushes you on the road? <> It's a simple question. Please answer.

"Mage battles were crap because they were nothing but a bunch of breaches, dispels and time stops. It was crap. It was a ****ty system of "protections" that made everyone else in the party a bunch of chumps with thumbs squarely up their asses." R00fles! But, mages in PE with their one dimensional spells are sooooooooo much better? Come on. \There is stuff that PE can do better but magic is not it. Magic seems rather bland in this game so far. The Cypher and Chanter seem to get the good stuff. But, the mage is hella dumbed down.

"Yes. The game encouraged me to slaughter the entire village because I have this incentive to farm XP so I can level up and go ankheg hunting and get their XP I turn. Vicious never ending cycle. Kills my role play buzz." I didn't feel enouraged. I kill a bunch of xfarts because theyw ere trying to kill me and others. I didn't chase down every single last one like you apparantly you did. I also don't hunt down every last ankheg either. But, I did attack the ones who attacked me. "In an objective based XP system, I'm not dangled with consequence-less meatbags to go XP farming. There's no incentive to do so." No, but you are still a lemon who does what the npc tells you to. You are the ones who believe that a player should get no xp for defeating a dragon in combat but believes a player should xp for helping a little girl find her dolly just ebcause she asked you to. L0LZ How is that NOT degenerate game play and horrible design?

"Umm, why are you being condescending regarding to Sawyer? <_< Do you have some type of reason to be snide about him, like evidence that he doesn't listen feedback despite his job being listening feedback?" He has called people names when they disagree with him. He also LOATHES the IE games espciially the BG series and has always hated BIO the creators of the BG games, and hates people who like the BG/IE games. He's made this very clear. It's not about being condescending. It's about knowing that he loathes us. That said, I don't hate ALL his ideas. Some of the changes have been good. However, as far as xp goes, that's not being changed. Ever. That said, let's stay on topic and not worry about personal stuff. I believe in rewarding the player for accomplishing stuff, for overcoming challenges, for role-playing, and everything else. PE does not seem to do this in a meaningful way like SRR which does it awesomely.

No. Because the other stuff is garbage until the bugs are fixed. But, xp for 'quest only' does not work for this game. It's not SRR. And, 4 months is not gonna change it into SRR. "Volourn, you should be able to have the common sense to understand what is valid criticism. It's once thing to say "combat is too fast" or "I don't like the XP system". It's something completely different to attack your own speculations about content. It is quite obvious that a lot of the content isn't in place yet." wut u talkin' about willis? I AM commenting on the content we have. You are the one speculating. You get nothing for overcoming the spider queen challenge. NOTHING. That's fact. Not speculation. YOU are the one speculating on the future. If the next version of beta comes and you DO get rewarded for overcoming the spdier queen challenge THEN i will comment on THAT. Don't make stuff up.

"Volourn, have you ever considered that maybe the fact that there are only 4 quests present in the mod might hint towards not everything being implemented in these maps yet? Maybe they want to leave some of the area quests out of the Beta so as not to entirely spoil these areas when they release the full game?" Not my problem. They want us to comment on stuff. Right now the spiders are meaningless junk and I am saying so. If there's already a quest not implemented there thatr ewards you for it so be it. If not, then I'm letting them know it's unacceptable. btw, This isn't this is some bug like vanishing items. But, I guess one is allowed to praise what they see in the beta but not criticize it. L0L

Another point is the spider queen. It serves absolutely no purpose. Not part of a story, not part of quest, no nothing. Why does it even exist? Except to be filler that adds nothing except another few minutes? LOL If a player decides to tackle such optional content they should be rewarded for accomplishing it but NADDA. no game eevr - not even games with only quest/obecjtive xp - have been so set agaisnt awarding players for overcoming challenges. WTF!?! In terms of xp SRR + DOS + BG > PE EPIC FAIL.

"Oh, we're back to "logic" again, are we?" "If I do battle with the dragon who hunts me in the woods, I get no experience despite the challenge but if the little girl in the village asks me to find her dolly I get xp if I do?" Do you find the above scenario acceptable? 'Cause I sure don't. "It absolutely hurts the game. Plenty of people have complained in D:OS that the stealth and few charisma options totally screw those players. You will be a much lower level if you do not kill everything possible. It is awful. Putting points in charisma will make you feel like a fool. You are either wildly mistaken or desperate to prove your point at any cost." DOS a combat heavy game focused on combat. oh, btw, While I found the game but not the best ever' many gamers loved it. LOVE IT TO DEATH. Seems to me xp for combat/kills didn't hurt their enjoyment at all.

I have never played an Assassin's Creed or Call of Duty game. "I remember the first Assassin's Creed game. It received a lot of attention because it had a hot female producer/director (who spoke French.) The game received a lot of good press. I was not interested in that particular type of game, (I am still not,) but I was mildly interested in that game because of its interesting historical premise. (The sci-fi twist had not been revealed at the time.) Then, Assassin's Creed came out. Its Metacritics and Gamerankings scores were... underwhelming. Its Metascore was 81, (71 for the PC version.) Back then, it was easy for a high-profile "AAA" game to received high-80 to 90+ mo Metacritics. A lot of AAA titles at the time were getting 88, 89, 90+ at Metacritics, (i.e., BioShock, Mass Effect, Halo 3, etc.) Which means Assassin's Creed must have sucked to have gotten such a "low" score. So it was a pass for me. (Over the years, Metacritics gradually re-adjusted and improved its formulas. Now it is harder a game to get 90+.) I do not play FPS that glorifies US interventionist imperialism. " Why did you quote me? I post about The Witcher and you replied spamming about Assassin's Creed. WUT!?!

If I wanted a job I'd work in real lfie. So exploration is out? It's about being slaves to the npcs? So.. If I do battle with the dragon who hunts me in the woods, I get no experience despite the challenge but if the little girl in the village asks me to find her dolly I get xp if I do? WUT KIND OF LOGIC IS THAT!?!

"Not like we've had saturation Twitcher either, it isn't annualised like an Assassin's Creed or CoD so it'll be 3 games in near eight years." 3 games and about 10 different versions. And, that's just TW1.

"a vocal minority complaining about it then they can do the following:" L0LZ

"It absolutely hurts the game. Plenty of people have complained in D:OS that the stealth and few charisma options totally screw those players. You will be a much lower level if you do not kill everything possible. It is awful. Putting points in charisma will make you feel like a fool. You are either wildly mistaken or desperate to prove your point at any cost. You are rewarded with loot and lore. PERIOD. I would like some xp for things like new maps discovered because exploration should be an encouraged part of the game. Perhaps some for overcoming the scripted text events. This is still the beta and smoothing out xp rewards is what betas are for. We still have no idea what xp will look like in Wasteland 2 (in terms of quantity and how fast we will level etc.) for the final game and that beta is much more comprehensive. Obviously anyone that feels the need to declare the end of the world at this stage has an agenda. The same tired agenda we have been hearing for way too long. The IE games only had kill xp because 2e DnD onwards had it which those games were based on. Not because it was brilliant. 1e DnD did not exactly have kill xp. Only treasure had actual rules for gaining xp though the phb did suggest "“…the Dungeon Master will award experience points to the character for treasure gained and opponents captured or slain and for solving or overcoming problems through professional means." Kill xp was awful in DnD and I never played in a single campaign where anyone actually bothered tracking that junk. I am sure there are some super hardcore people out there who did but it was never my experience because it is inherently a dumb idea. Furthermore all the DMGs suggested other times to give out xp rewards. From gaining treasure, to completing quests or doing "kewl" things." No. "Obsidian decided they wanted players to focus on quests. Adding xp rewards on top of loot encourages grinding rather than questing. I am glad Obsidian wants to focus on their quests rather than design it like a JRPG." L0L

"What happens when they are squatting at the location they don't want to work at and are preventing anyone else from working there?" Then you arrest them for that and charge them for those crimes. That's not the same as forcing people to work when they don't want to, right? RIGHT. but, that doesn't eman you get to shoot them in the back because they said something mean to you.

Yes, they do. If people don't want to work let them not work. If you force them to work espicially under fear of killing or inprisoning them that's slavery, immortal, and evil.

I will say so, bro. Oh yeah, I did so.

"To be fair, the game forcing combat with hostiles that spot you is a separate issue to whether the experience point system encourages killing as the optimality solution path. One is a result of the world and narrative, and one is a result of the game system." Yeha, but one of the major complaints from the anti combat xp brigade is that it forces one to choose combat over dialogue because it is mroe rewarding. However, in a combat heavy game like PE(or the IE) you don't actually get the option. It's not a matter of combat or dialogue. It's you must fight. There is no optimal solution just one solution.

"The truth is Cyril was on the board of Lonmin and he did say the protracted strikes need to be ended. But anyone who understood how harmful the strikes were also said the same thing, we have a massive problem in South Africa with intransigence around what the Trade Unions want and expect. And they don't care if they drag the countries economy down with there unrealistic demands" Strikes should never be forcefully ended by the police or the gov't. Because that only leads to slavery.

"I would be surprised -and disappointed- if Obsidian doesn't reconsider the way XP is handled." Feel free to be dissapointed. Even one of Obsidian's bosses was told his opinion was wrong. This thread isn't really to convince Obsidian of anything. They made up their minds. There will be no combat xp in the game. If we're lucky, they'll improve the overall xp intake but otherwise no go. This is no SRR that is for sure. "Sorry, I don't debate with people who start making it personal, Stun. I'm done here." You are the one who made it personal. You attacked everyone who liked Diablo or was pro xp rewards. btw, I'm no Diablo fan. I played Diablo1 and somewhat enjoyed and I did even't bother with 2 or 3 but hey if you are gonna flame people expected to be flamed back. "Achievement: - "You moved the mouse!!!" - "You clicked once!" - "You clicked twice!"" STOP THE. HYPERBOLE. Nobody has asked for that. All we asked is to be rewarded for overcoming challenges. Period. "People act like this is self-evidently a bad thing, but I'm actually not sure why. Why is gaining 0 XP a bad thing? What exactly are you being deprived of here? Personally, I think it's cool when you can't count on the inevitable level-up to rescue you from a tough encounter. You have to make due with what you have. No level-up for you until the quest is over." Not being rewarded for overcoming a challenge *is* a bad thing. "I would say even 2 or 3 quality combat sequences per rest is more than your average DnD tabletop campaign, unless you're just running something really kill heavy. Additionally, from a role playing perspective, I think it would make sense that the large majority of characters would want to engage in life or death situations as little as possible, and especially when it isn't necessary for some tangible objective. For those that truly feel that murder is an important part of progression, then the value provided in the loot, or in not having to parlay with those you encounter seems sufficient enough." Huh? Ifa DM allows a party to res every 2-3 encounters, they aren't very good. I certainly wouldn't allow the party to rest after a battle before they 'face' the boss (though in pnp terms like 'boss' isn't thrown around a lot. On top of that the problem with PE is you can't parlay a lot. Most encounetrs are instantly hostile and aggresive. "How on earth is kill-XP any different from your complain. You have to slaughter anything that moves, otherwise you are denied character progression. It forces you to be murderhobo, instead of playing quests and adventures." Nope. You can level up just fine in BG without murdering every last xfart for 7xp. Please tell me you didn't feel the need to do that when playing BG? "Actually, I like dev's approach of "just be you" or "pretend to be a different personality" or role-playing. If you are interested in EXP, there are many other CRPGs, which allow you grind to your heart's content. For a story-focused role-playing game, the implementation makes sense." This doesn't make sense. It's not about grinding. I mean you can't really avoid the beetles for instance. They're basically right on the road. LMAO And, this is combat heavy. "My personal experience of playing some PnP RPGs and the way some of Obsidian devs kept the tradition of introducing PnP essences into CRPGs. In fact, while being counted as Infinity Engine games, Planescape: Torment was totally of it's own." O RLY? Funny enough, PST gave the player combat xp.... "Basically, their games tend to be story-focused game with clear design goals rather than loot'n EXP CRPGs but let's see how the quests are designed." They're both 'story focsed' and 'combat heavy'. Every single PE game including this one has LOTS of combat. I mean all the classes are geared to combat. Very few non com,bat skills, and no non combat spells. Yet people are pretending the game isn't focused on combat. Come on.Even Obsidian hasn't denied this. L0L "that Kill XP can encourage combat as the primary solution to problems" Except PE encourage and forces you into lots of combat. There's not a lot of choice in the matter except, say, ogre which you get xp either way. But, you can't talk to the beetles, lions, or even the humanoid cultists. They are insta hostile. "I'm really enjoying a PnP game I'm in at present where my character basically leaps at every opportunity to avoid a fight. We're getting a lot of "roleplaying XP" because she'll usually try to negotiate instead if it's feasible. It's nice for that to be a realistic option in any rpg, IMO. Less metagaming helps with immersion for me." That's fantastic! But, you ain't getting that in PE. Youa re gonna be forced to fight A LOT in PE. You should be rewarding for surviving a tough battle just a smuch if you wer eable to use dialogue skillz to convince the prince to show his shirtless chest to you. "I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying it hampers your progress further on down the line if you skip XP rich areas where the goal is basically just to slaughter everything in sight." Not as much as you think. BG2 gave you over the top quest xp to more than make up for it. Not to mention lockpicking, scribe scrolls, and opening doors also gave generous xp. Plus, BG2 just like PE is combat heavy and combat focused. And, theya re both story focsued but they both have unavoidable combat.

"I hate the XP system that divinity origianl sin has, and it's you can combat but it's sterile xp, you only lvl up through quests, this means that it's only important the development that you do on cities or zones with tons of quests and not fighting." Uh.. Others covered this. D:OS is really generous when it comes to kill xp. It doesn't hurt the game at all like some the anti xp for kill crowd claim. Why? Because, xp is to be sued to reward the layer for upcoming obstacles, missions, and role-playing. When you have a battle with beetles, lions, or ogres and you successfully overcome them you should be rewarded for it. PERIOD.

"If ur only reward for exploring is a numeric advance in level...and not the actual curiosity of wanting to know and rewarded with that knowledge ..." ONLY!?! ONLY!?! ONLY!?! Being pro xp for overcoming challenge doesn't mean one wants that to be the only reward I want for it. Don't make stuff up.

I don't see it being hard. Played on normal. Did well in most combat. Have died maybe 4 times but twice was me being lazy and twice because have my team had no equipment include no grimoire. L0L

indira probably got hit with the vanishing quest bug in obsidian's defense there.