Volourn

"Wow, how many times do we have to repeat this? The reason why you get XP for dealing with the ogre, but not the beetles, is because it's a quest the developers put in. It's as simple as that. Stun, you are either an idiot or a troll." So, you personally attack Stun because you dislike my post? Wow. Perhaps, you shoudln't be playing RPGs at all. Your logic still sucks btw. By your logic, if it was a dragon on the road and not beetles you shouldn't get xp for dealing with it either because no quests or no obective. Just there. L0L

Come on, guys, Desther isn' hard. He's not even the 'hardest' encounter in ch1 despite beingt eh final battle. Who is Ganon in NWN?

No. I paid for a collector's box set and Obsidian turned around and tried to make me their slave. Not gonna work. I wouldn't report ANY bugs. In fact, if I found one I would just lie and say I didn't. Or maybe I'll make up a fake bug for just giggles so people would waste time tryingt fo find it or trying to prove a bug exist. Of coruse, I ruined by sick plans stating it so publicly so eh. That ruins that idea. L0L <> You may be fine bein a slave doing work others get paid decent wages for but I sure ain't. I will get what i want a = a box collector's edition of PE + dwarves. Everything else is irrelevant.

"Uh, no. The reason why you get XP for completing objectives is because that provides the best gameplay experience." Does it? Does it really? Still doesn't expalin why the beetles are worth squat for overocmbing them but the silly ogre iis when the beetles are trougher and more dangerous and you can't really avoid them and they are threat to all civilized people who want to travel on a civilized build road? "It i implemented this way because the developers feel that it is the best way" If they do it the right way. The fatc ogre = xp and beetles = no xp makes me have doubts they'll implement it properly. "in the most balanced and well-paced manner." All good games are balanced and well-paced manner. The IE games certainly were despite xp for battles. SRR was despite mission complete only xp . The system has no effect on this at all.

." I rarely used a shield in the IE games because it just didn't seem like the defensive bonuses outweighed the damage of dual wielding or 2 handed." Huh? Shields were awesome in the IE games. It could amke the difference being hit and not being hit. The 'lore' behind only resting heals your health is shakey. I have a funny feeling that people are gonna need to rest a lot. You should - if a game is balanced properly - be able to complete most dungeons without resting or with big dungeons once or twice max. Not like in that video where he rested twice when he only had 3-4 battles. Or the silliness I hear about other games where people rested every battle or two. Resting should be a last resort of the desperate or the foolish who didn't play well. It'll be interesting to see how a skilled player leveled properly with good equipment handles these fights... Hmmm.. In conclusion, while this methos isn't my ideal I won't completely judge it success or fail I tell I experience it since I'm awesomesauce expert so I'll be able to go yay or nay.

Those recipes are a waste of space and dumb.

It was included with what I wanted. I really didn't have an option to 'opt out' since it was a 'lower tier'. I wanted the physical collector's edition.Even if I get off my grumpy butt and posion myself with steam to play i'd consider it playing the game as i wouldn't report anything to Obsidian. Theyw ant me to 'bugtest' they can PAY me like they do for their pay tester employees.

"(Also, if combat is fun, then it does have a point, and it is rewarding)" Also, if completing missions is fun, then it does have a point, and it is rewarding. Why give xp for it? Your logic is flawed.

"but only 4 classes have been shown in demos, barbarian/fighter/wizard and Paladin, although I cant find any video footage of the wizard demo." They've shown other classes too even though they weren't the PC. the rogue epsicially was talked about it as the showed hisw insta teleport ability (well more dimension dooresque). One of the dungeons is also in/under the town so sayeth Sawyer. The other dungeon I think is those ruins they showed the entrance to but didn't enter as they made their way to the ogre cave. Man. Part of me wants to just play the demo as a player screw the 'playtesting' garbage but steam is eh. I don't want to ahve join ANOTHER site just to play a game I paid for. That's why I ordered the special box set. Too bad it's not on GOG sicne I'm already there.

"Am I the only one that thinks physical manuals serve no purpose anymore?" Physical manuals are awesome so you don't have to be at your computer to read them. I still, from tiem to time, read manuals to older games for gigles and often times start playing those games again just because the manual got me pumped up. This is evn true for games I hated then I start playing them and I go, oh yeah, this game sucks lol:P">..

"While reading this I am still confused as to why combat will now be pointless and unrewarding because each mob you kill worth 36 exp split 6 ways so 6 xp per person per kill is that deciding factor." I certainly never claimed this.

"Unfortunately Stun will still wonder why you get 1500 XP for entering one cave but not the other, and this thread will go on and on and on." Well, it's a good question. Just like why is the ogre worth 3k xp+ and the beetles are not when they are a challenge to be overcomed? "never mind, I'm done with this discussion." Good riddance. If you can't handle disagreement you shouldn't be posting on the internet. My apologizes that there's not enough of a hivemind. "I simply disagree with the premise that rewarding xp upon enemy kills encourages behavior that is 'boring'. In fact, receiving xp upon killing an enemy is exciting, because it's the game telling you you've just overcome a significant challenge." Dingaling we have a winner. Again, ogre vs beetle. Currently, PE is telling us that ogre is worthwhile and the beetles are trash because he's worth xp. "You don't find repetitively killing the same enemies over and over boring?" Not if the combat is fun and rewarding. then again, i personally don't go hunting every last xfart on the map for 7 xp each. DID YOU!?! "Stun, do you believe that combat will be boring in Pillars of Eternity if you are not rewarded XP from kills?" I'm not Stun but I'll answer: No, i don't think it'll neccessarily be boring but it will be less rewarding. Why are the beetles not worthy of xp but entering the cave is? "Combat won't be rewarded with XP because the developers want to encourage the player to avoid combat as much as possible. Obsidian Josh Sawyer is going to great lengths to make combat as unrewarding as possible, a substantial amount of item drops will contain useless vendor trash, so that people who strongly dislike combat (which is basically everyone who didn't like the IE games) don't whine about being deprived of good loot" O RLY? This has to be tongue and cheek, right? L0L ."This is like the guy who said Icewind Dale sucked cause he had to spend days grinding yeti's.. what are you talking about...?" That guy is a fool. You don't need to grind yetis. "why the hell combat isn't pointless in Shadowrun, VtM Bloodlines, Deus Ex, etc?" It *is* pointless for the most part in BL. never played Deus Ex. XP is handled well in SRR mostly ebcause it is linear and you get xp at end of each mission that is supposed to reward you for the entire mission. So, out of the three, it worked in 1. However, 'xp for kiill's (which I didn't technically argue for) has worked for decades and din't make any game thast featured it 'worse' or 'less fun'. "Bloodlines isn't a combat focused game." Yes, it is. It has TONS of unavoidable trash combat. "Shadow Run is an episodic game. There is no open world. You are on rails fighting the same things before the same event happens. There is no fork in the road. Wether each mob gave x amount of xp or the end of the level gives x amount xp doesn't matter. There's only one direction to go and there's no turning back." Yup. "Romance is hardly a game Mechanic." It can be. It can also add to role-playing. But, wrong thread, anyways. "But what about the beetles? What if have the ability to communicate with them and make them my buddy beetles who help me in some way? WHY shouldn't I get XP for that? WHY shouldn't I get XP if I decide to kill them instead because they are extremely dangerous and kill civilians hunting or looking for food in the forest? Why should I only get XP for the Ogre, why should I only get XP when I am told where to go and what to do? I hate this lack of choice and only being rewarded for doing what I am told that I must do in order to get xp. It is like playing a playing a PnP session with a really bad DM: "LOL, NOOB, you didn't do it my way so you GET NOTHING." Winna posta. "I mean, it's not like the beetles crawl into the village at night and threaten to kill their loved ones if they dare to complain about them to the next adventurer" Yeah, but they are right on/near the road. Roads are only created to be sued by travelers and I doubt all travellers are adventurers. And, the beetles are instantly hostile and therefore a threat tot eh village and others. In fact, they are more of a threat of the ogre since accoridng to the quest he is only taking sheep not killing people. And, he can be negoitated/talked to - the beetles can't be (though a druidic spell would be nice too or a way to get them away from the road). "We're arguing that it provides a better gameplay result than XP-for-kills." No. The GAMEPLAY doesn't actually change, right?

You know what pisses me off most about these videos? It makes me want to play it now but I can't because a) I didn't pay to be a playtester and b) it's only on steam and why have steam when i have gog? Damn. Now, I'm probably gonna be spoiled by those playing it. L0LZ

"does appear to be an uninformed and negative view around this word." It's not uninformed. Feminism as a word and as tenant has been tainted. "So I will prefer to say I am a liberal" Meh, Liberals are just as bad as conservatives. " who believes in gender equality" Thumbs up.

"Why do you hate women so much?" Why do you hate men so much?

You are making stuff up. It is rude to lie. I never said any such thing. And, you even admit I didn't yet you cotninue to spam like I did so why use such a spaghetti argument? LMAO

200 is probably exaggeration or someone who left the game on for 2 hours during a break. Just like the nonsense that BG2 is a billion hours or the toolbags who took 100+ hours to 'finish' DOS recently.

"you don't find a Rogue being able to improve his lockpicking abilities by stabbing beetles to be "illogical"." WUT!?! Where did I say this? "On the note of the beetles being the "only" thing not giving XP in the the demo... I have a few questions. Did we see every quest available in the demo? Nope. Did we see every beetle killed? Doubtful, but we can't be 100% as Adam killed all of the ones we could see on one play through. Were both the town map, and the beetle map completely explored? Nope. I can't say whether or not the beetles do give XP. I will let anyone who would like an answer to that know come Monday or Tuesday. It depends on if I have time to really play it" \ Which is why i originally asked the question about the video in the video thread before all the butthurt started because some of us aren't part of a silly new age hivemind. LMAO

Then why do you get 1500xp for entering the cave? That's not in your journal nor does entering the cave stop the ogre. L0L So... you agree with me? The PC is a slave who has no mind of his own. Only gets xp if he follows the book. LMAO

"How does it make sense that you can allocate leveling points wherever you want them, regardless of how you obtained that XP? Why can you get better at thieving skills by killing beetles?" Who says I think that makes sense? Who says my ideal game would do that? You are using the wrong argument, DUDE. "No. You got 1500xp for getting through the beetles and spiders." No. You got 1500xp for entering a cave. You MIGHT make a case for the spiders because they are blocking the cave entrance. But, the beetles don't block the cave entrance.

" It seems to be very common in modern games, though. For some reason." No more common than older games. For some reason. :rollseyes:

They are my objective so DEAL WITH IT. Yeah, your objective is to run to a cave and gain 1500xp. LMAO "By that logic, why would you gain exp for any beetle but the very first one you killed? Beating a second one doesn't prove anything either then." Look at that. Another spaghetti argument.

"So out of curiosity, what if beetles respawn? How that would affect your guys' argument about them needing exp reward? Affect only first time? :p" Well, you beat the beetles once. Beating them a second time doesn't prove anything nor should your characetrs really leanr anything new for doing so. That's if you use respawn at all. Another way do it is if you find the beetle 'hive' (yeah I know beetles don't really have hives ala bees but you get it ) and defeat/disperce the beetles there you should xp for making the area safer. You can even do it without fighting. \The IE games were all hand placed xp.

Dwarven Fighter/Cleric

":This thread is like a textbook case for change aversion. Let me grab my crystal ball and predict after a full playthrough the overwhelming majority of the "no combat xp" complainers will completely forget their grievance." L0L I'm often a huge advocate for change when the change is logical. Anyways, watching the video again and watching closely. I saw: a) 1500xp for enterting ogre cave b) 3000xp for killing ogre (I presume you get this whether you kill him or deal with him some other way) and c) concluding the quest at the quest giver - couldn't see how much though. So you get 1500xp for entering a cave but nothing for beetles. I don't mind the cave xp because that's a good nod for the spider battle outside. Again, I'll make this clear. It's not about combat xp. It's about the arbitrary chocies for what's worth xp and what's not. I also don't beleiev this is a 'game ruiner'. In the end, no matter how much xp you get or how you get it, the game will (if developed right) will be balanced for whatever. I just want LOGIC. And, there is no logic on why ogre is worth xp but beetles aren't other than he's part of some silly quest so the PC is a slave.