draego

I think you hit on something here about summoning in POE because the Figurines were so great for this very reason. Summons that can distract npcs at beginning or during a fight are so powerful because it frees up you actual group to devastate the enemy in the mean time. The summons dont have to be particularly powerful themselves. So there has to be some balancing with using them.

That is assuming the chanters chants dont scale with level like other stuff. It may be true what you are saying but they have stated that other abilities like spells, carnage, sneak attack will scale with level so when you take first level rogue the sneak attack is small not +50% like in POE1 so i assume the same is true for chanter that the affect of chant will scale with level so its not super powerful just take an early level of chanter.

Ye if including non crpgs 1. Chrono Trigger 2. Pillars of Eternity 3. Knights of the old republic 2 (with fixes)

I haven't completed white march yet. My main play throughs were with the base game and white march 1. The characters were more or less good to some degree. A while back i rolled several new characters to role play differently. One an aedyran orlan slave coming back to find his home he was stolen from so he doesnt like they dyrwoodians but does like the glanfathans so acts accordingly to the different groups and a orlan nature worshiper who felt the lands belong to the beast (that is beasts in the game creature type so i would try to avoid killing beast types) and that the inhabitants need to learn to get along with nature (my druid kick). So i was enjoying these builds until i got to the white march content. I felt like no matter what choices i made i end up helping stalwart and it kinda killed my characters focus. Without being to spoilery is there any choices in the white march that doesnt end up helping them and by extension the whole of dyrwood colonies? I get the feeling that i need to just skip this content for these character playthroughs.

There's actually another good reason that I think will account for 99% of the 1/17 builds out there - that being that many companions have a fixed base class (or a small choice). For example, Aloth has to be a Wizard at L1, but you know someone out there is going to go "It'd be so much better if he was a Cipher..." and just leave 1 level in Wizard then go Cipher the rest of the way. Similarly we'll probably see Eders who are 1 level of Fighter or Rogue (his choice), then 17 levels of Paladin or Barbarian (or even other things like Priest), and so on. Ye there is that but also a level 17/1? the level 1 class will actually be a level 4 discipline so that doesnt seem so week. i mean imagine 4 levels of paladin or wizard or priest it seems like a viable option to give any single class just a little bit extra utility. I know that abilities like sneak attack and carnage and spells and such will scale so they wont be super op but sometimes just having a small amount of extra utility will push you build over the top. That is why to me the abilities at the end of the build need to be so painful to skip that going from an 18/0 to 17/1 will hurt and be a real choice. Maybe i am missing something about power level and accuracy like i read above but i havent heard anyone talk about that in the updates or videos. So assuming your accuracy is what it is at level 18 i dont see the issue with a little utility

I actually like the poleaxe in POE. My favorite two hander aesthetically

You may want to mention changes to the base class as well. Their stated goal is to make all classes work not replace classes with subclasses. So i dont know if this counts but when i read "Assassin - squishier rogue with great damage potential. Requires positional awareness." above i laughed because i thought well the regular rogue is already squishy so this assassin class wont be really fun if they are even squishier than rogues but in the article they do say that rogues will be more durable which means they are changing the base classes as well just to have some contrast. Its not much but its a change

No a paladin is not a fight/priest in this POE Ye conceptually it doesn't seem like these types are different but in POE1 these classes were vastly different with different abilities and different strengths so ye there is a point to all these multiclasses because they all bring different things to the tables. This isnt d&d where paladin has access to priest spells. paladins are not priest in this game at all. They are not based on gods they dont have any spells or ability overlap. Even the heal the paladin gets is different than priest heals.

I do think though they are going to attempt the make the base class on par with the sub classes unlike BG. So all three feel like they fill a role in the game.

Well i have seen josh mention that the abilities like cipher will scale so you wont get a straight 20% like you do on a level 1 cipher now. So level 1 cipher which a 17/1 character will have 4 discipline cipher levels will only have a small whip focus bonus. and yes you have to make it hurt to miss out on that last level to make it mean anything otherwise the utility you get from a 17/1 character will out way it. Also scaling all your abilities will also take a hit when you dont take that last level in your class so there is that to. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3807509&userid=17931&perpage=40&pagenumber=2

Ye it does feel the those last abilities are going to be very important to make sure its a real choice to go straight 18 level class or multi

I am specifically talking about the regular animal companion not the spirit. Yes a summon would be fine because it just a bonus spell to distract but a regular animal companion has consequences for dying and will die from the first hit on level 18 content if you say took 1 levels of ranger if the pet only scales on the rangers power level i would think. That is why i think most multi class rangers will end up being the sub class without the pet for this reason which is fine for all those animal companion haters out there. Actually now that i have thought about it the 9/9 ranger would be at 7 discipline level so that prob isnt bad for pet. but the 17 ? / 1 ranger stuff would be kinda janky at 18 maybe the bond could be really week at this multclass split so there is no really consequence to the pet dying even though the pet would be pretty week at level 4 ranger discipline. I believe i misunderstood the discipline level thing when i wrote my earlier post

Ye so i agree with the first part the best use of multi with ranger will be the 17 RANGER / 1? or 16 ranger/ 2? because level 4 priest, paladin, whatever could give lots of utility. But the other way around doesnt seem to work but to your point about leveling the pet based on character level that seem a little op dont you think. So if i take 17 wizard / 1 ranger i get a tank ranger pet with little consequence to my wizard or any class. I guess this is a catch 22 situation but its an interesting exercise.

Josh said there was a petless ranger subclass on a post (i am sure all those ranger haters out there will love it). and yes i get the power level mechanic but for example a 17 ? / 1 ranger will have 20 ranger power level equal to level 4 ranger discipline. That would be a pretty crappy pet at level 18 content. Like i said it doesn't bother me because i dont plan to do this but i think it interesting to consider. From update 1. One of the most popular ranger subclasses on the team is the Ghost Heart Lodge. All Ghost Hearts travel the wilds of Eora alone, their animal companions having died at some time in the past. However, the bond between the ranger and their companion is so strong that the soul of the animal remains tethered to the ranger through the Between. While a Ghost Heart does not have their companion available at all times, they may be summoned as a ghostly Spirit during combat for a short duration. This companion is not considered a Beast, so spells like a druid's Charm Beasts and Hold Beasts will have no effect on it, but a paladin's Abjuration can badly damage or even banish it immediately. WOLFFFYYYYYYYY! (not my pets actual name)

I get that white march had more unique encounters but less frequent? I dont see white march as an example of this. In fact i found white march to be a slog sometimes. I hope the less frequent part of this statement is considered. I wouldn't like the entire game to be a dungeon crawl which at times white march felt like.

i been thinking about multi-classing ranger and i feel like this class would be an example of a class you cant just take one level in as a multi option. Most ranger combinations will end up being ranger 17/ ? 1 - because of the animal companion. Its because i assume the animal companion will only level up significantly on the ranger level up and if you dont have your animal leveled sufficiently by the end of the game then they will be a nearly useless appendage that simply dies at the first fireball or will be crit stunned or paralyzed always. I guess this is where sub classes come in with one of the rangers subclass has no pet. but with pet its hard to see a lot of multi-class options that dont end in 17/1, 16/2 type stuff. However for me this wont be an issue if the other ranger subclass doubles down on the pet/ranger synergy. I prefer subclass to multi anyway.

Ranger + Druid = Warden, Guardian Ranger + Rogue = Scout, OutRider Ranger + Barbarian = Vanguard Ranger + Fighter = Sentinel Ranger + Cipher = Bloodhound Ranger + Priest = Oracle, Harbinger Ranger + Wizard = Prophet, Seer, Warlock Ranger + Paladin = Avenger Cipher + Rogue = Operative, Spy Wizard + Chanter = Sirin, Enchanter Barbarian + Priest = Zealot Barbarian + Chanter = Skald (was typing this up without know someone beat me to it) Barbarian + Monk = Martyr

I like the system as well. Made for less rest spamming.

Ye i agree with some of the sentiments here. I don't want any of the combat mechanics and i disagree about the fighters. I felt that all my characters were basically the same build. Melee with some magic. That is not interesting. I also didnt enjoy the encounter layouts. Tyranny was like Od Nua, one big dungeon. I enjoy the occasional dungeon crawl but i want to avoid combat sometimes, maybe once (i know you could avoid with dialogue but not the same thing). I did like the weapon ready animation. So i guess there is something. When out of combat holster your weapon.

Ye i dont get this rant. I dont understand how your character can go from saving slaves to sending them to be eaten by someone. This is RPG maybe try role playing some. If you are just trying to power game which is fine then just read a guide and see how to get stuff but its a little weird to complain about making choices in a role playing game.

Here we go again. I do give it you for fighting this fight. good luck, i could care less either way but i do understand the passion for different parts of games that we all like.

Actually it's the other way round: Nobody has provided any kind of sound reason why the party must be capped at 5... What we have though is a range of very similar games from both the far and recent past that worked quite well with a party size of 6 rr less, if people wanted. So there is sound empirical evidence FOR capping at 6 while there is completely NO evidence or reason of any kind why capping at 5 would serioulsy improve this type of game... I think this is the point that their is no other justification than this is game and its about fun. So if 5 party members turns out to be fun than its fine.

I see some not like the stretch goals because they haven't been super crazy. I think they have bee great precisely because they seem reasonable. This is not "Stretch goals of Eternity" it Pillars ... Make the game great that is what matters.

Ye you cant start at level 16 that would be ridiculous. You are basically god like at the end of the game. level 1 is fine. i am sure it will be good

Ye level 1. boo no pet ranger. I am sure a lot of people will love that. like the reactivity also