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Lichs

Lichs Critical Important Quest Race

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37 replies to this topic

#1
Atro22

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Hello Obsidian,

This is an open letter requesting Lichs be included in the game as either,

a) A playable race.
b) Ascension as a result of a wizard/cleric/cipher(?) only quest (allow melee classes a quest to become either vampires or fiends)
c) A companion.

Lichs are the best undead archetype and too long have RPGs mistreated, misrepresented, and mishandled their inclusion in their game world. Lich discrimination includes but is not limited to: Type casting as mid-boss level villains, untrustworthy quest givers who will betray you after completion of the quest, secret loot pinatas that dispense overpowered equipment, and vague and unseen threats sprinkled throughout a game world's lore.

I believe the above usages are selling the potential of a Lich and the Lich's sacrifice of his humanity short. There are any number of interesting reasons to become a Lich, good, neutral, and evil, and exploring this multiplicity of motivations could make for very interesting story telling.

Allowing the player to become a Lich will accomplish the following:

A) An immense sense of progression as the player sheds his mortal body.
B) A host of possibilities for world reactivity based on the cultural perceptions of Lichs across the game world.
C) Interesting gameplay mechanics and added tactical choices gained through the many Lich abilities.

Thank you for your consideration on this topic, the inclusion of Lichs would make many people very happy.
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#2
diablo169

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Has potential especially with the souls theme, I just worry that the romancers will want to try necrophilla if you make them playable or companions. :dancing:

#3
Ieo

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No. "Many"? You're projecting your personal desires way too much there.

Also, there is no alignment.

I can tolerate Obsidian adding a lich-like creature related to the soul mechanism in the setting, but not as a playable race (meh) nor the other things, really. I'd rather they not add vampires or zombies either, though the latter could work with the soul mechanism okay.

...Nah.
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#4
Atro22

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Has potential especially with the souls theme, I just worry that the romancers will want to try necrophilla if you make them playable or companions. :dancing:


This is another area where reactivity towards becoming a Lich could come into play. Where once a companion may have been a romancable, they now prefer to not know you in a biblical manner given your evolved form.

This would further serve to highlight the sacrifice the player makes by becoming a lich, by giving him tangible non-philosophical ingame consequences for his choice.
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#5
MuscleSpark

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Being a big fan and supporter of the Lich unlifeform - my roots go way back to the Sandro Should Have Won Movement (or SSHWM) - I am biased in my opinion but have to say that I wholeheartedly agree.

Now, I don't necessarily think that starting out as a Lich should be possible, being a Lich is a very coveted position in unlife and shouldn't simply be handed out to players, they should have to work for it, preferably through a series of quests or through finding a rare artifact in one of the dark corners of the earth. Of course a companion of Undead origins could be a possibility too, as their views on life, the universe and everything always make for interesting dialogue and character interaction.

Naturally, becoming a Lich or other sentient undead in a world where souls are in constant reincarnation and forget their past lives, as well as (possibly) losing their past power would be irresistible, and it would be outright insane to not include such an option for a character.
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#6
Theistic

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I have to agree. Liches of all kinds have been the quintessential magical BBEG in a large portion of P&P games, yet are strangely absent from the games that are meant to emulate the experience of playing a session of whatever high fantasy P&P you prefer.
Personally, I've never understood this. Liches, after all, can be so much more than just undead spellcasters. From the Tomb of Horrors' Acererak to more straightforward power-hungry necromancer who finds immortality through his obscene and wretched rituals, to bardic Bach-playing perfectionists who sought an eternity to pracice their art (listen to Toccata and Fugue in D Minor and tell me that ****'s not lich as ****).

Hell, some of the most interesting wizard antagonists inevitably end up as liches. It's one of the few ways to justify their immense power.

There are a lot of ways the whole "souls are power" thing could be integrated with the core concept of a lich. One good idea I heard was, essentially, the lich being more of a puppet master. The soul residing in an unaging object, directing the actions of its body from far away.

Probably undoable at this point, since that would probably be some kind of micromanaging system where you'd control the PC's physical body and have it distinct from the PC him/herself, which is obviously a stretch at this point in the funding process.

Regardless, a reimagining of liches, the lynchpin of many a D&D campaign, would definitely be a cool thing to see.
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#7
GhoulishVisage

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I made a similar thread a while back, and I have to say that I also think that liches could work in conjunction with the soul lore they have going on, especially as a playable character.
The stronghold could work out fantastically as a place to store the phylactery and where your body could reform. Every lich needs an ominous lair.
Being a lich could make for some very interesting gameplay.

Also, liches are badass.
It might take quite a lot to implement though an work out best in an expansion pack, but I would also be happy if it was in the main game.
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#8
kabaliero

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I'd love to see a female lich as a romanceable party member.
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#9
ComradeGoby

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Lichs are a great idea.

#10
rjshae

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B) A host of possibilities for world reactivity based on the cultural perceptions of Lichs across the game world.


Oh sure, plus you're certain to be a conversation starter the next time you visit a bar. :alienani:

#11
GhoulishVisage

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Oh sure, plus you're certain to be a conversation starter the next time you visit a bar. :alienani:


Liches might be perceived differently in the PE-verse. They might be figures of great renown in certain cultures.
And even if they are disliked there's still a good old illusion spell.

#12
KaineParker

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Possibly included as a creature. But I don't think it could work as a playable race.

#13
Badmojo

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I agree with OP and others, liches need to be in. If there is necromancy in the game (I really hope there is), those who wish to become immortal undead/creature should be alowed too. If for anything, to balance out the usual PC characters we got so far with something actually different. I always hated in CRPG games, that the 'evil' beings seek immortality with dark rituals, but ironically in most casses the PC characters do not get that option and has to stop the ritual wether you want to or not. I am like, whyyyyyyy? Why can't I do the deed myself and gain power and imortality? On a side rant, if there is a cult/dark faction, I hope we can have the option to join them instead of just wiping them out, or helping them but not actually joining them to get all the cool benefits that actual cult/faction members get.

#14
rjshae

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Oh sure, plus you're certain to be a conversation starter the next time you visit a bar. :alienani:


Liches might be perceived differently in the PE-verse. They might be figures of great renown in certain cultures.
And even if they are disliked there's still a good old illusion spell.


Yes that's always possible, particularly in a magocracy culture.

An even creepier option would be a type of body-snatcher mage; an undead wizard that takes physical form by symbiotically occupying and controlling a living vessel. These would probably be slaves selected for their optimum physique. Such a character could pass as a normal individual in most circumstances. But perhaps the bodies decay after a while because the occupying wizard doesn't take properly care of it.
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#15
MuscleSpark

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I always hated in CRPG games, that the 'evil' beings seek immortality with dark rituals

Right? Attempting to attain immortality is not inherently a bad thing, in D&D terms it could be seen as "chaotic" (going against the laws of the universe or somesuch) but it's not evil, plus plenty of Demigods and Gods are immortal, and they subscribe to all kinds of different alignments.
I am a big proponent of undead rights, and I find the general treatment of Liches as repugnant or evil to be abhorrent. The undead are people too, Avellone did a great job of showing this in Planescape: Torment.
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#16
Bobby Null

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I'd love to see a female lich as a romanceable party member.


Talk about "Mature Themes". Yikes :skull:
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#17
Monte Carlo

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* sigh * I told you all before, I *am* a lich. Have been for, ooooh, perhaps 780 years give or take a decade.

Although I would generally not support the OP, as from personal experience I can tell you that being an ancient, undead, sould-devouring sorcerer of inestimable power is * seriously * overrated, this struck me as being of note:

A host of possibilities for world reactivity based on the cultural perceptions of Lichs across the game world.


Thank you! At last. I tried to form GUoL (Greater Understanding of Liches) some years ago. What did we get? A regiment of bloody paladins besieging my tower! Bastards. Of course, none of them spotted the Sphere of Annihilation trap on the first level (I blame point buy systems for their uniformly low intelligence). It's as if people don't understand why becoming an immortal undead being isn't a world-threatening development (but give me another five hundred years).

Anyhoo, must dash, my nose has fallen off (again) and I've run out of duct-tape.
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#18
jivex5k

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If there's a neromancer sub class or something I could see the ultimate spell transforming yourself into a lich.
It should be a long ass quest though to get it, something really special.

#19
MuscleSpark

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I'd love to see a female lich as a romanceable party member.


Talk about "Mature Themes". Yikes :skull:

Well it could it would have to be platonic.
Clearly.

#20
Dream

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I think it would be better if the PC was more mundane, so to speak.

However, I'd have no problem with one as a companion. Hell, some of the best parts of PS:T were the crazy companions you encountered.





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