Anyone else kind of regretting multiclassing?

[InsaneCommander]

I think multiclassing is good if you want to roleplay or simply be that combination. Otherwise it's better to plan your party and have the companions support you.

 

On my first game I'll be a pure assassin. On my second a Fury/Evoker just because I think it's cool and I'll invest a lot in Arcana to get those high level spells from scrolls (no empowering for them of course).

 

Another multiclass I'm considering is a Priest of Berath/Beckoner, just for roleplaying reasons...

[Riftis]

With my experience with it so far, Multiclassing doesn't suck, you just need to make sure your classes synergies well.

 

Take my mindstalker (beguiler cipher + rogue). The drawback of beguiler is your soul whip only does full damage on targets vulnerable to sneak attacks, but I'll be going for sneak attacks anyway on account of being half rogue, and I'll get a lot of spells that allow me to setup sneak attacks on account of being half cipher. Yes, I could go pure cipher and get better spells, but my sneak attacks would be substantially weaker and I wouldn't get the rogues nice escape abilities and interrupts. Yes, I could go pure rogue but then I wouldn't get soul whip buffing my sneak attacks and all of the ciphers nice spells to aoe debuff the enemy and help me set them up. Yes, I could have a pure rogue AND a pure cipher but that takes up more party slots, the cipher still lacks escapes and rogues substantial sneak attack bonus, and the rogue lacks the ciphers soul whip, at which point it may be better to go in melee and focus on backstab damage instead.

 

Regarding companion buffs, there are many buffs including the two I mentioned above that cannot be given to another class without multiclassing, and lets not forget that multiclass characters can still receive buffs from other characters. Barbarian's carnage is another example. I've heard of people having success playing warlock (barbarian + wizard), and summoning Citzal's Spirit Lance which has inherent aoe damage. It synergises well with carnage in a way that CANNOT be done outside of that multiclass. 

 

There is a reason the game says multiclass characters are not recommended for new players - and that reason is to make them good you need to find synergies between the classes, and not just mash them together into some sort of abomination. That being said, even a mashed together abomination can be decent if your party doesn't have the space for those two classes individually, but would nevertheless benefit from the advantages of each. Your party could use a support buffer/debuffer but could also benefit from having another tank? Combine priest with fighter and have a Cleric. Sure it'd be inferior at both roles compared to pure classes, but it'd still be functional and serve multiple purposes like a Swiss army knife, opening up another party slot for something else. 

 

Regarding skill points for multiclass characters, you get one for each class at lv1 and one for each class at every power level increase. I think it's fairly well balanced. I've posted this a few times in the past but here it is again:  

 

[flamesium]

Multiclassing is awesome but you do need to have an aim in mind for what you’re trying to achieve. If you’re just randomly picking abilities from the two classes because you like the multiclass name then yes you are likely to end up with a weaker build than if you’d stuck to single class.

 

And when people say ‘just have another party member buff you’, you have to factor in the opportunity cost of that.

[M4xw0lf]

No.

/end thread

[Insidous]

The strongest characters in my party are the multiclassed ones (fighter + paladin and ranger + wizard) 

[Elerond]

Multiclassing gives access to very powerful builds, at end game it started to feel that single class builds just can't compete with multiclass builds

[Dorftek]

I love the multiclassing. How can anyone believe they suck? A cipher with Carnage? A tank with Riposte? Anything with Faith and Conviction? So many possibilities some stronger then others. I've only played this game solo so far because of the lack of difficulty and I am super happy about multiclassing. I love my Bleakwalker/Assassin!

[master guardian]

I love the multiclassing. How can anyone believe they suck? A cipher with Carnage? A tank with Riposte? Anything with Faith and Conviction? So many possibilities some stronger then others. I've only played this game solo so far because of the lack of difficulty and I am super happy about multiclassing. I love my Bleakwalker/Assassin!

because the game currently isnt big enough to make them worthwhile,

 

by the time you gain enough levels to get what you want half the game is over, 

 

I will be rolling multis after the expansions come out

[Hazmy]

Please, the game is already easy on a broken level, multiclasses can be godlike unkillable characters. No, multiclassing is fine and no need for buffs certainly, if you prefer single class that's fine, but asking for 2 skill points is ridiculous.

The whole point of their idea is, that single-class and multi-class should be balanced so you feel the way you feel. Debating which one is better. The game does say multi-classing is not for beginners, you need to have an idea of what you are doing to get their full advantage.

 

 

I love the multiclassing. How can anyone believe they suck? A cipher with Carnage? A tank with Riposte? Anything with Faith and Conviction? So many possibilities some stronger then others. I've only played this game solo so far because of the lack of difficulty and I am super happy about multiclassing. I love my Bleakwalker/Assassin!

because the game currently isnt big enough to make them worthwhile,

 

by the time you gain enough levels to get what you want half the game is over, 

 

I will be rolling multis after the expansions come out

 

That's the perfect point why multi-classing is good. Currently the game lacks end-game challenges so much, that the early boost of multi-classing is way more worthwhile than the op spells at a later level, you just become op later anyway, so no need for those op spells.

The game isn't big enough for the end single class spells to reach their full benefits.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Hazmy

[Logos]

 

 

by the time you gain enough levels to get what you want half the game is over, 

 

 

 

 

My assassin/bleak walker playstyle hasn't changed from level 1 to level 20. Stealth, flames of devotion, one shot a dude, repeat. 

 

Berserker/devoted, assassin/devoted, assassin/soul blade, shapeshifter/monk, etc. etc. All of them play the same at both ends of the levelling scale. 

 

This thread is mostly people complaining that they don't understand the various systems of poe 2. All the most powerful builds are multiclasses, with evoker being the only exception. Multiclassing is extremely worth it, you just need to actually read the text the game displays for you. Check out the builds forum some time and tell me that multiclassing sucks. 

[Ganrich]

 

 

 

by the time you gain enough levels to get what you want half the game is over,

 

 

 

My assassin/bleak walker playstyle hasn't changed from level 1 to level 20. Stealth, flames of devotion, one shot a dude, repeat.

 

Berserker/devoted, assassin/devoted, assassin/soul blade, shapeshifter/monk, etc. etc. All of them play the same at both ends of the levelling scale.

 

This thread is mostly people complaining that they don't understand the various systems of poe 2. All the most powerful builds are multiclasses, with evoker being the only exception. Multiclassing is extremely worth it, you just need to actually read the text the game displays for you. Check out the builds forum some time and tell me that multiclassing sucks.

This. I'd also say that most builds start getting real synergies by level 4 at the latest. Either way, the entire game you have two resource pools to rely on in combat.

 

Example: Beckoner/Kind Wayfarer only needs a summon and FoD... Oh wait, you get both those at level 1.

 

My new Assassin/Troubadour took getting to 5 before be started getting really good. This is because I needed Killing Blow and White worms Writhed. The idea is to make a corpse, and explode that corpse. He was fully functional at level 1 though.

[Riftis]

The idea is to make a corpse, and explode that corpse.

 

I like it. 

[syphonhail]

Multi-classing only sucks if you do not know the synergies between classes.

[syphonhail]

Please, the game is already easy on a broken level, multiclasses can be godlike unkillable characters. No, multiclassing is fine and no need for buffs certainly, if you prefer single class that's fine, but asking for 2 skill points is ridiculous.

 

The whole point of their idea is, that single-class and multi-class should be balanced so you feel the way you feel. Debating which one is better. The game does say multi-classing is not for beginners, you need to have an idea of what you are doing to get their full advantage.

 

 

I love the multiclassing. How can anyone believe they suck? A cipher with Carnage? A tank with Riposte? Anything with Faith and Conviction? So many possibilities some stronger then others. I've only played this game solo so far because of the lack of difficulty and I am super happy about multiclassing. I love my Bleakwalker/Assassin!

because the game currently isnt big enough to make them worthwhile,

 

by the time you gain enough levels to get what you want half the game is over, 

 

I will be rolling multis after the expansions come out

 

That's the perfect point why multi-classing is good. Currently the game lacks end-game challenges so much, that the early boost of multi-classing is way more worthwhile than the op spells at a later level, you just become op later anyway, so no need for those op spells.

 

The game isn't big enough for the end single class spells to reach their full benefits.

Once they tune POTD and fix scaling it will be interesting to make a new Char use the console to make them lvl 20 and play the whole game as max level party to see the difference.

[Mikeymoonshine]

From what I remember from the backer beta they added an extra ability point for single class characters to help balence it because at the time multiclass was massivly OP. If you are going to have multiclass as an option you need some drawbacks.

[tela2k]

As pointed out by others mutliclassing can be pretty crazy with the right synergies.  But I'd go as far as say that you don't even need to have any synergy for multiclassing to be worth it for two reasons. 

1. For many single classes there are a lot of times I feel there just isn't anything good to take with all those skill points you get. With two classes you have a greater chance of having something worthwile to pick on any given level.

2. Just getting the abilities of an extra class in your party has value in itself. I ended up multiclassing Tekehu and Pallegina both to druid/chanter and paladin/chanter respectively. Why whouldn't you just want free aura buffs for the whole party. There are way too many good chants and invocations to go around for one chanter. You are offering something so powerful to your whole party, that the high level abilities need to be -amazing- to be better than that. I'm actually sure you could make a 5 x/chanter multiclass and it would still be worth it. Paladin is the same thing, even without any class synergy why wouldn't you want a paladin in your party. Probably also druid. You can multiclass it with anything, just go with relentless storm and moon well, do nothing else very druidy, but you are offering an aoe permastun and probably the best heal in the game(?). It might not be optimal, but it doesn't suck.

 

 

Edit: typos

Edited May 16, 2018 by tela2k

[Ninjamestari]

I've found that single classes overall are much less powerful than their multiclass variants. Sure you get one or two flashy moves more as a pure class, but you get the abilities of a whole another class by multiclassing. For example, that cipher's +30% damage to basic attacks is just nuts for ANY martial class, not to mention all the extra **** you can do with the focus you gain. There isn't a single class that doesn't benefit a ton from having those extra defensive stuff from a paladin, or having access to healing spells from druids and priests, or those deflection buffs from a wizard, etcetera. Every single character you get is more powerful as a multiclass variant.

[Jawsjam]

You need to experiment with them more, they don't suck. Nor does it need late-game to switch on.

 

Example: Eder as a Swashbuckler level 11 - Therefore unlocking level 4 Fighter/Rogue abilities.

 

Just take a look at the talent trees and synergies (Via POE2 wiki) respectively and imagine the variety of builds you could make -

 

https://pillarsofeternity2.wiki.fextralife.com/Rogue

 

https://pillarsofeternity2.wiki.fextralife.com/Fighter

 

Just a few examples:

 

Positioning: Charge (Fighter) into battle, gone too deep? Cast Smoke Veil/Escape (Rogue)

 

Engages:Hold the line + Fighter Stance (Fighter) +  Persistent Distraction (Rogue) = More Distracted (flanked) = more Sneak Attacks (Rogue)

 

Accuracies: Disciplined Barrage + Confident Aim (Fighter) + Dirty Fighting (Rogue) = More hits, more crits

 

Etc....

 

There are so many examples that doesn't even scrape the surface, the beauty of POE2 is the variety, there are SO many options!

 

Also if you're into something more exotic, I recommend Loremaster (Chanter + Wizard), a lot of cool whacky comboes and synergies you can experiment with there.

[artyom]

some classes have excess talents. For example the chanter. You only really need to pick 2-3 chants and 2 invocations for your strategy. So thats 5 talent points. What do you do with the rest 20 or so points? The chanter doesnt really provide many passives. Thats why the chanter is good with paladin multiclass: because you can spend the excess talent points on paladin's passives and such

 

similar thing with many other classes. For example the wizard. 

[Lord_Mord]

I don't get how the system works, but I don't like it. mämämä. How come that a handful of persons complain about absolutely everything (How is it even possible that the same game is too easy on one side but all builds are too weak on the other?), while the rest of us don't? Don't tell me: We are all sheeps.

If that kind of stuff is important to you, go watch some youtube-videos that show you, how you can easily create multiclass builds that do 300-400 damage with a single hit. Nerd commando has some interesting stuff. Not that the game would be fun anymore with such an overpowered build, but to each their own.

Oh yes: And learn to love yourself, so you can learn to love others. Maybe there is a youtubevideo for that, too.

[evilcat]

MC is sometimes good and sometimes not so much, sometimes it is more about flavour. Just avoid very unsynergetic combo.

Quick reference:

Martial DPS/ More martial DPS - stack passives from both classes, use double resources for favorite active power.

Cipher/anything with a stick - The harder you hit, the more focus you gain, more often you can cast.

Chanter/anything - unless you are trubadour you not gonna sing faster, so migh as well do something else, cast spells from another class or swing a stick.

Tank build/buffs, heals - there is not as many defensive abilities per class, so might as well spread some buffs.

Wizard/something - wizard makes good MC, you can either use quick selfbuffs in offencive or defensive way, or use cone/around caster spells. Can use grimoires for free spells, and rotate them from item bar.

Shifter/Martial DPS - cast/shift repeat

Active ability synergy - using double resources to meet requirments for awesome attacks. Like Paladins Flames of Devotion and Rogue Backstab, but use Rogue Guile for invisibility, but still have powerful FoD strike.

 

Priest/Druid/Wizard - benefit from solo class more. Get more powerful spells faster.

Generally single class from level 9 and up have like +2 power level +1 ability point. And that is also good.

 

Things to avoid: Cipher/Priest, spells do not generate focus, and priest group buffs are slow.

 

Some classes have powerful passive, like sneak attack, and subclasses offer second passive, if we can stack two subclasses, for double free passive, and sacrifze something we dont care about... that is good power spark from begining. Like Lifegiver/Wizard. We sacrifize summons, but can summon from wizard if really need to. Soulblade/martial we have less focus, but we get more dmg from other class, and we use less powers, since soul anihilation.

 

Flavoru Power: Beckoner+Wizard with cold and necrotic spells. Pale elf. Maybe not most powerful but you can do homemade necromancer.

 

Some thought: MC having two resource pool, that is quite strong. Maybe some classes could have level 8 or 9 ability to increase their resource by 2or3.

Edited May 16, 2018 by evilcat

[Zeitzbach]

Multi-class is still mediocre on Druid/Wizard simply because Salvo, Maelstorm and Wilting Wind exists. Synergy helps but i-win button helps more. IF anything, multi-class seems to only be good if you want one of the classes to function as a bonus stat with the other having all the good stuff within the first 5 tiers.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Zeitzbach

[Ganrich]

To play off of evilcat's post... The reason my rogue/Troubadour works so well is because of synergies.

 

1) Open with Arterial Strike wielding a flail w/ modal on. Hobble is -5 dex, and that reduces Reflex save. Flail modal is -25 Reflex. Hobble reduces Reflex by 10 (2 points per Dexterity lost). So together they reduces Reflex by 35. So that enemy with 50 Reflex just got reduced to 15 Reflex.

 

2) Swap weapons to Sasha's Sabre. Empower any offensive damage Invocation other than tornados. They all attack Reflex except tornados which attacks Fortitude. Crit like crazy because their saves are garbage. Sabre gives back 3 Chants for the Empowered Invocation. If target(s) still standing then hit them with the Invocation again. Obviously, unempowered this time. On Veteran they are dead.

 

Since invocations are AoE you usually kill more than 1.

 

3) After this use Flanks, another Arterial Strike, or ring the bell with deep wounds passive running.

 

4) Late game you get Chanter Phrase that weakens enemies so you can focus your rogue abilities on maximum damage instead of getting 2 afflictions to proc Deathblows.

 

That's pretty much it. I use 1 handed weapons for accuracy so I am more likely to crit. The more damage my strikes do the bigger my DoT from Deep Wounds is.

 

I use Troubadour instead of Skald because this is a bit squishy, and Skalds require melee crits for their phrases to generate faster. Troubadour just turns on Brisk Recitation, and gets to work. If I have to play defensive I turn BR off and switch chants to the weaken + something else defensive. My intellect is high enough for 100% up time on 2 Phrases. So, they are weakened and have to get through a 10pt damage shield to boot. I use BR modal like an old MMO tank stance dances.

 

If enemy has a lot of armor I have Hel Hyraf Invocation, Killers froze invocation to increase crit chance, and Confounding Blind which adds a stacking Deflection Debuff for every hit the enemy takes while blinded. I have Thrice was she wronged invocation fully upgraded, and it hits targets a total of 5 times when upgraded.

 

These are the synergies and they are fun. You can start coming online pretty darn early.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Ganrich

[gkathellar]

some classes have excess talents. For example the chanter. You only really need to pick 2-3 chants and 2 invocations for your strategy. So thats 5 talent points. What do you do with the rest 20 or so points? The chanter doesnt really provide many passives. Thats why the chanter is good with paladin multiclass: because you can spend the excess talent points on paladin's passives and such

 

Yep yep yep. Chanter's problem was always that it had more abilities than it could actually ever use, long stretches of being forced to rely on mediocre basic attacks, and anti-synergy between its high-level chants and invocations. Getting fewer, lower-level abilities with a chanter isn't even a penalty.

 

Multi-class is still mediocre on Druid/Wizard simply because Salvo, Maelstorm and Wilting Wind exists. Synergy helps but i-win button helps more. IF anything, multi-class seems to only be good if

you want one of the classes to function as a bonus stat with the other having all the good stuff within the first 5 tiers.

 

It's an action economy thing: having more abilities than you can use doesn't make you stronger. As a result, it's almost always best to take either one class with lots of good actives and one with lots of good passives, or two classes that have a few strong actives but not enough to get through a whole fight. Druid and wizard have such focused play styles that you can't really multiclass to perform better in those roles - you can, however, add wizard or druid to another class to complement its playstyle.

Edited May 16, 2018 by gkathellar

[Judicator]

Not only do you not get your max level stuff for both classes, but you level SLOWER too.

 

Ok sure whatever.

 

But then u also only get 1 skill point a level? the hell is that? the whole fun is u can select one thing from each class a level?

 

2 skillpoints a level plz.

Because certain classes have amazing synergy. Also, you get to draw from two pools in combat, meaning you can use more abilities in a fight. The only drawback is the lack of high level abilities, but I'm not all that impressed by them on some classes.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Judicator