WTF are sidekicks?

[daven]

 

After contemplating everything in this topic, I conclude that sidekicks are a good idea. Sometimes you just want to bring along some characters who have a bit of banter and interject sometimes but not be too in depth and throw walls of text at you. Should every companion be one of your life long soul mates? Someone who's just along because of some mutual convenience can be potentially interesting, or at least not a hassle.

 

The thing I mainly dislike is the term 'sidekicks'. The definition is 'person's assistant or close associate, especially one who has less authority than that person.' This doesn't seem to be what they are describing with them. but I guess that's just semantics.

Quick! Think of a word that describes someone who hangs out with you all of the time, but isn’t a friend. “Companion” is already taken.

 

Colleague/Ally/Associate? Dunno, doesn't really matter it's just a name.

[Mannock]

Quick! Think of a word that describes someone who hangs out with you all of the time, but isn’t a friend. “Companion” is already taken.

Man-at-arms.

[Boeroer]

Stalker!

 

PoE3 will have stalkers!

[algroth]

Stalker!

 

PoE3 will have stalkers!

 

[Guest]

 

 

After contemplating everything in this topic, I conclude that sidekicks are a good idea. Sometimes you just want to bring along some characters who have a bit of banter and interject sometimes but not be too in depth and throw walls of text at you. Should every companion be one of your life long soul mates? Someone who's just along because of some mutual convenience can be potentially interesting, or at least not a hassle.

 

The thing I mainly dislike is the term 'sidekicks'. The definition is 'person's assistant or close associate, especially one who has less authority than that person.' This doesn't seem to be what they are describing with them. but I guess that's just semantics.

Quick! Think of a word that describes someone who hangs out with you all of the time, but isn’t a friend. “Companion” is already taken.

Colleague/Ally/Associate? Dunno, doesn't really matter it's just a name.

It mattered a second ago.

[Guest]

 

Quick! Think of a word that describes someone who hangs out with you all of the time, but isn’t a friend. “Companion” is already taken.

Man-at-arms.

I like that one.

 

Probably a tad esoteric for most people, which is most likely why they went with “sidekick”.

[daven]

 

 

 

After contemplating everything in this topic, I conclude that sidekicks are a good idea. Sometimes you just want to bring along some characters who have a bit of banter and interject sometimes but not be too in depth and throw walls of text at you. Should every companion be one of your life long soul mates? Someone who's just along because of some mutual convenience can be potentially interesting, or at least not a hassle.

 

The thing I mainly dislike is the term 'sidekicks'. The definition is 'person's assistant or close associate, especially one who has less authority than that person.' This doesn't seem to be what they are describing with them. but I guess that's just semantics.

Quick! Think of a word that describes someone who hangs out with you all of the time, but isn’t a friend. “Companion” is already taken.

Colleague/Ally/Associate? Dunno, doesn't really matter it's just a name.

It mattered a second ago.

 

 

SOZ! I'm not bothered man.

[rjshae]

Wathef Uck, mysterious barbarian sidekick from the southern jungles. He's into some crazy stuff, man.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Wathef Uck, mysterious barbarian sidekick from the southern jungles. He's into some crazy stuff, man.

Tell me about it! Just like his cousin Watheh Eck. Absolutely deranged. Those jungle drums you're hearing? That's the sound if his jugular after he had a week of magic mushroom binging.

[bleedthefreak]

 

After contemplating everything in this topic, I conclude that sidekicks are a good idea. Sometimes you just want to bring along some characters who have a bit of banter and interject sometimes but not be too in depth and throw walls of text at you. Should every companion be one of your life long soul mates? Someone who's just along because of some mutual convenience can be potentially interesting, or at least not a hassle.

 

The thing I mainly dislike is the term 'sidekicks'. The definition is 'person's assistant or close associate, especially one who has less authority than that person.' This doesn't seem to be what they are describing with them. but I guess that's just semantics.

Quick! Think of a word that describes someone who hangs out with you all of the time, but isn’t a friend. “Companion” is already taken.

 

 

In old-school DnD they were called hirelings.

[Yosharian]

 

Quick! Think of a word that describes someone who hangs out with you all of the time, but isn’t a friend. “Companion” is already taken.

Man-at-arms.

Oh no he didn't

[Yosharian]

 

 

 

 

After contemplating everything in this topic, I conclude that sidekicks are a good idea. Sometimes you just want to bring along some characters who have a bit of banter and interject sometimes but not be too in depth and throw walls of text at you. Should every companion be one of your life long soul mates? Someone who's just along because of some mutual convenience can be potentially interesting, or at least not a hassle.

 

The thing I mainly dislike is the term 'sidekicks'. The definition is 'person's assistant or close associate, especially one who has less authority than that person.' This doesn't seem to be what they are describing with them. but I guess that's just semantics.

Quick! Think of a word that describes someone who hangs out with you all of the time, but isn’t a friend. “Companion” is already taken.

Colleague/Ally/Associate? Dunno, doesn't really matter it's just a name.

It mattered a second ago.

SOZ! I'm not bothered man.

Don't engage with him, he's just a troll.

[Guest Blutwurstritter]

My first thought when i heard sidekicks was this 

I am glad (perhaps even a little bit disappointed) it turned out to mean something different.

[Yosharian]

I am glad (perhaps even a little bit disappointed) it turned out to mean something different.[/indent]

Aww, poor Robin. He's always getting dunked on.

[Guest]

 

 

After contemplating everything in this topic, I conclude that sidekicks are a good idea. Sometimes you just want to bring along some characters who have a bit of banter and interject sometimes but not be too in depth and throw walls of text at you. Should every companion be one of your life long soul mates? Someone who's just along because of some mutual convenience can be potentially interesting, or at least not a hassle.

 

The thing I mainly dislike is the term 'sidekicks'. The definition is 'person's assistant or close associate, especially one who has less authority than that person.' This doesn't seem to be what they are describing with them. but I guess that's just semantics.

Quick! Think of a word that describes someone who hangs out with you all of the time, but isn’t a friend. “Companion” is already taken.

In old-school DnD they were called hirelings.

Right, but “hireling” is also already taken.

[Valmy]

 

 

 

In old-school DnD they were called hirelings.

 

 

They are not hirelings though. They are recruited just like the regular NPC party members. I think 'minor' vs. 'major' companions might be better. I suspect that as time rolls on people will forget there was ever a distinction and more content gets added to the four 'side kicks'.

[Gromnir]

My first thought when i heard sidekicks was this 

(image)

I am glad (perhaps even a little bit disappointed) it turned out to mean something different.

dunno.  is the reality actual better?  robin is a fully developed character, and a few robins has been at least as intriguing as batman. sidekicks is the companions who weren't good enough to make it as companions. deadfire sidekicks is the dross. is the recrement leftovers from obsidian's companion process, recycled and given new life as something... less. at best, sidekicks is companion failures.  at worst, they is the bastard children o' a hundred maniacs.  although to be fair, is not as if there is 100 poe writers, so using the movie reference is a bit hyperbolic.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[daven]

My first thought when i heard sidekicks was this 

I am glad (perhaps even a little bit disappointed) it turned out to mean something different.

 

Everytime I see sidekick I think of that exact incarnation of Robin. That is what is off putting. 

[Yosharian]

 

My first thought when i heard sidekicks was this 

I am glad (perhaps even a little bit disappointed) it turned out to mean something different.

 

Everytime I see sidekick I think of that exact incarnation of Robin. That is what is off putting. 

 

 

What about this one?

 

 

=D

[Wormerine]

What about this one?

 

 

=D

*Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles*

[Yonjuro]

 

...

dunno.  is the reality actual better?  robin is a fully developed character, 

 

 I think the reality is better if two things happen.

 

First, the main story and the companion/sidekick independent quests need to be compelling. If they are, the companion quests need to be really good or they will be more of a distraction and the sidekicks could even be preferable. If the main/side quests aren't compelling, well, game over - literally and figuratively.

 

Second, since the sidekicks don't have a lot of writing behind them, the writing needs to be good. Looking back at BG2, a lot of people liked Minsc, Mazzy, Keldorn, Edwin etc. I did, and it took me several tries to find anything I liked in Icewind Dale. There is a big difference between zero character development and a small but well done bit of character development. Minsc is a minor cultural icon and he consists of a set of combat barks maybe 2-3 dozen (?) banters and minimal, but well done, voice acting by Jim Cummings.

[Gromnir]

 

 

 

Second, since the sidekicks don't have a lot of writing behind them, the writing needs to be good. Looking back at BG2, a lot of people liked Minsc, Mazzy, Keldorn, Edwin etc. I did, and it took me several tries to find anything I liked in Icewind Dale. There is a big difference between zero character development and a small but well done bit of character development. Minsc is a minor cultural icon and he consists of a set of combat barks maybe 2-3 dozen (?) banters and minimal, but well done, voice acting by Jim Cummings.

 

kinda contradictory, and identifying the problem... perhaps.  minsc did not, in fact, have good writing.  clear do not need good writing to strike some kinda chord with the audience. as you noted, minsc had a catchphrase, a hamster, and a couple one-liners.  the writing were shallow and, at best, silly.  the voice acting and the rodent gimmick were what made minsc popular? probable. kotor 1 hk-47 also did not have particular good writing by any reasonable or meaningful measure.  nevertheless, the voice-acting and the gimmick made the assassin robot exceeding popular in spite o' absence o' quality writing.

 

if sidekicks become popular, am suspecting it won't be because o' the writing save for in the most generous definitions o' writing.  ****tail napkin length character treatment as 'posed to any kinda actual writing. gonna need hook or gimmick to sell the character, coupled with ______.  voice acting? a running gag? dunno. as such, am suspecting if a sidekick becomes liked or popular, it will be a surprise as much to the obsidians as anybody.  humor might be a good start, but slapstick humor hasn't been part o' the obsidian repertoire in the past. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps am not thinking we ever saw mazzy as included in particular beloved joinable npc lists.  part o' the problem bioware identified regarding mazzy were she were not as easily attainable as most o' the other bg2 joinables and so many bg2 players already had established parties by the time the came 'pon her.  were a no room at the inn issue. should be a lesson for obsidian. 

[Yonjuro]

 

 

 

Second, since the sidekicks don't have a lot of writing behind them, the writing needs to be good. Looking back at BG2, a lot of people liked Minsc, Mazzy, Keldorn, Edwin etc. I did, and it took me several tries to find anything I liked in Icewind Dale. There is a big difference between zero character development and a small but well done bit of character development. Minsc is a minor cultural icon and he consists of a set of combat barks maybe 2-3 dozen (?) banters and minimal, but well done, voice acting by Jim Cummings.

 

kinda contradictory, and identifying the problem... perhaps.  minsc did not, in fact, have good writing.  clear do not need good writing to strike some kinda chord with the audience. as you noted, minsc had a catchphrase, a hamster, and a couple one-liners.  the writing were shallow and, at best, silly.  the voice acting and the rodent gimmick were what made minsc popular? probable. kotor 1 hk-47 also did not have particular good writing by any reasonable or meaningful measure.  nevertheless, the voice-acting and the gimmick made the assassin robot exceeding popular in spite o' absence o' quality writing.

 

if sidekicks become popular, am suspecting it won't be because o' the writing save for in the most generous definitions o' writing.  ****tail napkin length character treatment as 'posed to any kinda actual writing. gonna need hook or gimmick to sell the character, coupled with ______.  voice acting? a running gag? dunno. as such, am suspecting if a sidekick becomes liked or popular, it will be a surprise as much to the obsidians as anybody.  humor might be a good start, but slapstick humor hasn't been part o' the obsidian repertoire in the past. 

 

 

Fair enough. Minsc  and HK-47 were popular due to  'good' writing if we are going to be generous with the word good (good = accomplishes a lot per word) - plus voice acting and some memorable gimmicks. There needs to be enough there to get a sense of the character's personality and the rest happens in the mind of the player. I see your point about humor vis a vis Obsidian.

 

 

ps am not thinking we ever saw mazzy as included in particular beloved joinable npc lists.  part o' the problem bioware identified regarding mazzy were she were not as easily attainable as most o' the other bg2 joinables and so many bg2 players already had established parties by the time the came 'pon her.  were a no room at the innissue. should be a lesson for obsidian. 

 

 Sure, but Mazzy is an example of a character that didn't cost a lot to write (compared to Jaheira), but was well defined and memorable and also closer to the type of character that Obsidian is likely to write (as opposed to Minsc or Edwin).

 

 I agree with you about the 'no room at the inn issue' and its implications for Deadfire. Here's hoping they don't toss a well written sidekick in a dungeon (awaiting certain violation by a shadow lord) guarded by shadow fiends, shadow wolves and skeletons on a map that you have to solve a mystery to find starting on a map you can't even get to until you've already potentiality met 8 other NPCs (not counting Imoen). Mazzy just wanted to rise above the low expectations of others and become a paladin. She was aiming high in life and did nothing to deserve such shabby treatment.

Edited March 10, 2018 by Yonjuro

[Guest Blutwurstritter]

Well, everyone remembers characters that stand out, and Minsc and HK-47 certainly did. Characters being larger than life, almost caricatures, can work well if it is not overdone. I think another reason for liking Minsc is that he had a fairly clear cut characterization. I find it hard to think of clearly defining characteristics for the PoE cast. They come closer to real persons but that doesn't make them necessarily  memorable. I also had a hard time to guess how my PoE companions would react to most of the decisions, where i always could imagine what my companions in BG2 would think. This is of course fairly subjective but was at least the case for me. 

[Frog Man]

 

If that's the case you should just use your own characters, because those hove no text...

Yeah, or the sidekicks, cause that's what they're for.

 

quality discussion ... reasonable forumgoers

You are not reasonable. You are just constantly repeating what you want. Achilles on the other hand just stated, that there are reasons for the sidekicks to be in the game and that they are alrerady in, so all that complaining is useless, especially as you didn't even play the ****ing game yet.

 

And guess what: Surprisingly other people want other things than you and guess what else: They will get them and you won't. Get over it!

 

Seriously: What's your problem guys? All that whining and nagging and "I want, I want, I want" that came to this forum in the last year or so. It is so incredibly annoying.

Preach Mord. Totally agree. Love the folks on the forum but it’s been pretty doom and gloom lately - I can’t wait for Deadfire. I trust that Obsidian will deliver something great as they did before.